A question for Leo

[Need Answers]

Dearest Leo,

I really do appreciate the effort that you have put into the making of a space that is so positive - it is a selfless activity, and I thank you for that.

I wish to gain clarity about a particular question, and therefore seek your support. 

I am new to this - so please try to make it as easy as possible.

 

This is regarding the question of solipsism. I have read a few threads here, and the way that sentences have been framed has confused me further. I read a couple of your answers and you seem to deny it, terming it a narrow system of belief, and yet frame your answers in a very perplexing manner, that makes it ambiguous; however, I understand that the paradoxical nature of reality cannot be expressed through the limits of language. 

I have watched your videos and have begun grasping the essence of non-duality, and whilst I am in the nascent stages of embodying it in a wholesome manner, the concept of non-duality has made sense to me intellectually - and hence, the concept of solipsism that people here constantly argue about does not hold water. I also do understand that I would be an utter fool to pay heed to every word written on the internet - hence, I ask you, with all the love and humility in my heart to answer this question in an easy terminology, thinking of me as a kid in the process of deep exploration - that, in search of living through the beauty of life is encountering certain obstacles that have donned the attire of belief systems, and therefore seeks to overcome them through the act of complete sense making. 

I love the study of cosmology, and that is something that gives me a lot of joy - but from the narrow view of a solipsist, stars are nothing but just twinkling objects, and what they cannot see does not constitute existence - and that outlook seems very egotistical - almost like a stringent doctrine, that does not grasp the immensity of the infinite singularity.  So coming back to where I commenced, looking at the stars as having no existence of their own, just because I cannot make sense of it due to the bodily limits that God has imposed upon me does not make any sense to me. As someone who devotes a lot of time to the study of cosmology, appreciating the beauty that God is, through its many facets, solipsism seems very reductionist. If one were to look from the solipsist's point of view - what is the use of studying cosmology, altogether, then? 

My awareness is limited by my bodily constructs - yes, I agree - but that my the awareness through the bodily construct is all there is, is unsettling, and insulting to the beauty of God. When non-duality talks about the Mind of God, Imagining (with a capital I) it all, why do people fall into the delusional trap of solipsism? 

I am God, and I am Imagining it all - but that's from an infinite perspective, and that infinite constitutes it all. The current, limited nature of consciousness is not the limits of consciousness itself. 

As you do mention, that an infinite radius is no radius - so, my awareness of things Now, is all there is in the limited sense, yet it is also not all there is. 

This is the extent to which I understand it. Could you explain this further? You would be helping me a great deal. 

@Leo Gura

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Need Answers

[Mason Riggle]

There seems to be much confusion caused by two different notions of solipsism, which are very similar, yet profoundly different.

Solipsism 1- there is me, and everything else is imagined by me. I am alone.

Solipsism 2-  there is me, and I am everything, there is no 'everything else'. I am all one (al-one, alone). 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Need Answers]

@Mason Riggle

4 hours ago, Need Answers said:

I love the study of cosmology, and that is something that gives me a lot of joy - but from the narrow view of a solipsist, stars are nothing but just twinkling objects, and what they cannot see does not constitute existence - and that outlook seems very egotistical - almost like a stringent doctrine, that does not grasp the immensity of the infinite singularity.  So coming back to where I commenced, looking at the stars as having no existence of their own, just because I cannot make sense of it due to the bodily limits that God has imposed upon me does not make any sense to me. As someone who devotes a lot of time to the study of cosmology, appreciating the beauty that God is, through its many facets, solipsism seems very reductionist. If one were to look from the solipsist's point of view - what is the use of studying cosmology, altogether, then? 

Could you elaborate the stance from this perspective? 

[Leo Gura]

You can't understand the answer without a profound God-realization awakening.

Just the fact that you have such a negative attitude about solpsism already tells me that you are not ready for God-realization.

You need answers but your cup is full.

[Need Answers]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Just the fact that you have such a negative attitude about solpsism already tells me that you are not ready for God-realization.

I do not disagree. I am still navigating my way through this - but I'd like to begin somewhere. I am a newbie, and I do understand where I lie on the spectrum. Also, I am quite young, so I am focusing on integrating a lot of things right now. However, this concept is proving to be a hindrance. 

As I mentioned above - the perspective on cosmology - how would you explain that? I am a student of that particular field, and just would like to know what you think about this. 

If you could answer this, perhaps - it'll help me a lot - how different is solipsism from God-realization?  And does solipsism even exist if one is not God-realized? (Funny framing - but I hope you understand)

Edited May 23, 2021 by Need Answers

[Leo Gura]

@Need Answers It's very simple: you are God dreaming up all of reality. The end.

What you can dream is completely unlimited.

As a newbie this will not help you. You need to do practices or psychedelics to become more conscious.

If you want Truth you should be willing to burn every assumption to the ground. Including the assumption of other people.

[Breakingthewall]

In my opinion, that of solipism is an unfortunate concept. If you do 5meo you will have the realization that only you exist, the rest of the people are your fantasy, and you are creating them and the past in real time right now. the point is, that's real from a materialistic perspective. you, as a material individual, create the universe with your mind, and you are creating the past right now. the past evidently does not exist, it is only in your mind. but that does not mean that it did not happen! also it does not matter, the past is ego, the others are ego. What does it matter if they exist or not? only create anxiety of people who incorporate it as a concept. it does not matter if they exist or not. They are relative, they are your experience from birth, it is what you have to see as illusory, it is not you, it is a creation of your mind ... even if they really exist. What does it matter if they exist or not? for you, they are something mental. If you die now, what would this whole experience have been like? the same as nothing. but obsessing over whether they "really" are or not ... I don't see any sense in it. if they are, they are you, but with a different costume. like flies or fish, all manifestations of the same existence. just as valid or not valid, but more beautiful. Maybe it's more useful to adopt the solipsistic point of view to realize god, and I don't understand it yet

[Need Answers]

39 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's very simple: you are God dreaming up all of reality. The end.

What you can dream is completely unlimited.

Yes - this definition is a lot more encompassing towards Being and Experiencing the Infinity - and this does not seem like solipsism that is defined in the traditional way. I am trying to understand the concepts - and if this is what solipsism is, it aligns perfectly with the intellectual understanding I have of non-duality - as I did mention in the thread in the very beginning - non-duality is solipsism + infinity (is this definition more suitable, @Leo Gura?) I have nothing against solipsism - what I seem to have a problem with is the loose manner in which it is generally used - and because of the profound nature of this, it needs to be addressed properly. 

Do you have plans on making a video on this topic? I'd love to see one, and it can help many gain clear insights into this topic that seems to be really misunderstood. I, for one, am eager about this. 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Need Answers

[Shin]

49 minutes ago, Need Answers said:

I do not disagree. I am still navigating my way through this - but I'd like to begin somewhere. I am a newbie, and I do understand where I lie on the spectrum. Also, I am quite young, so I am focusing on integrating a lot of things right now. However, this concept is proving to be a hindrance. 

As I mentioned above - the perspective on cosmology - how would you explain that? I am a student of that particular field, and just would like to know what you think about this. 

If you could answer this, perhaps - it'll help me a lot - how different is solipsism from God-realization?  And does solipsism even exist if one is not God-realized? (Funny framing - but I hope you understand)

Contemplate what you were before your birth, after your death, and between the waking state and the dream state.
No assumptions at all, no monkey mind, for hours, consistently for days and weeks.

Right now you're too much in your mind trying to figure it out, but you won't.

You can't figure this out, this is not something you can figure out, because it's you.
You can't figure out what you are, because it's prior to anything else, it's what incorporates everything else.

No answers on this forum will ever satisfy you, ever, cause the answer you seek is not something you can acquire in your head.

What you are is what makes possible to know anything, so by definition, nothing except a direct realization, a spontaneous revelation of your true nature will do it.

This is very different than learning, understanding or figuring stuff out.
Those things are experiences appearing inside you, they can't explain what you are.

Imagine what it's like to have a vaginal orgasm, you can't !
That's a loose analogy, because there can be words describing experiences that are close (but still infinitely far) from the actual experience.

God (what you truly already are), is one step infinitely higher in that regard, nothing can come close to explain what it is, what you already are right now, cause it's you !

You cannot be closer to you, because it's you !

So just sit and wonder what you are, you'll "know" when you'll "know", and by that I don't mean in a future when you'll be in the right position to do it,
Right now, right now, right now !

You don't need anyone else to tell you what you are,
Because everything else is you !

There was never a time where you were something else,
Than you !

I am you !

Leo is you !

Your computer is you !

The ceiling is you !

Your pillow is you !

Your desk is you !

God is love !

God is you !
 

You are YOU !

Edited May 23, 2021 by Shin

[Leo Gura]

@Need Answers The problem is you still haven't encountered yourself as God dreaming up the world. When you do, it will feel extremely solipsistic to you in a horrifying way.

Talking about dreams is all fun and games until you realize you dreamed up your mother. Then you shit your pants and cry.

Yes, a video on solipsism is planned. I am not yet ready to talk about it.

[Blackhawk]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Need Answers The problem is you still haven't encountered yourself as God dreaming up the world. When you do, it will feel extremely solipsistic to you in a horrifying way.

Talking about dreams is all fun and games until you realize you dreamed up your mother. Then you shit your pants and cry.

Yes, a video on solipsism is planned. I am not yet ready to talk about it.

Yeah, I've experienced that. My body also starts to shake when it happens.

[The Lucid Dreamer]

@Leo Gura It’s definitely a touchy subject for many, so I understand your need to prepare more before tackling it. 

But the sooner you record it, the sooner people will stop creating these solipsism threads.  Or who knows, maybe it will make it even worse. 

[Need Answers]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Talking about dreams is all fun and games until you realize you dreamed up your mother. Then you shit your pants and cry.

I am not going to argue over something that I have had no direct experience of - I have your word for it right now, and I'll take it - but I still have to do a lot of homework. However, in my opinion, such a realization also comes to the influx of infinite Love and the exodus of egoic emotions - and the mind eventually settles within the Mind - but then again, this is just me theorizing. 

I'd like to know one thing, though - and this may be the most important question, after all - and it is specific to you - after such a realization dawns upon you, what gives you the eagerness and the capacity to Love 'another' in the relative sense? I mean, how is your outlook towards everything post realizations that keep getting deeper, Leo? To 'exist' in everyday life needs a strong foundation on the tasks of a dual nature, too - is it that you have removed the egoic desires that come with it? I'd like to know how you, specifically, look at the world after such a groundbreaking realization, yet in a manner that that takes into account all the subtle distinctions with regards to people, groups, institutions, politics, identities etc.? How to do you incorporate the Oneness and the infinite distinctions? I'd like to know the answer from a practical, everyday life point of view. Yes, because you have understood that form = formlessness, but how does it manifest in your everyday life - given the limits of consciousness that have been placed upon you as a human? When you meet 'another' - what goes around in your head? How do you perceive them? How has this realization of Oneness impacted the way you co-habit the world with other beings - in the relative sense, of course? 

If it might not be too much of a stretch - could magic / miracles / occult be an example of this? The merging and play of forms with formlessness? 

 

[Leo Gura]

57 minutes ago, Need Answers said:

I have your word for it right now, and I'll take it -

Don't even take my word.

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However, in my opinion, such a realization also comes to the influx of infinite Love and the exodus of egoic emotions - and the mind eventually settles within the Mind

Of course, but that's AFTER you deal with horror of it.

Personally, I love it! But if you're worried about solipsism being true, you probably won't love it so much.

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I'd like to know one thing, though - and this may be the most important question, after all - and it is specific to you - after such a realization dawns upon you, what gives you the eagerness and the capacity to Love 'another' in the relative sense?

I don't necessarily love anyone any more in the the relative human sense. My love is very metaphysical and detached. Most people would not even consider it love.

It's very subtle. It's a deep inner love for reality itself, not towards any particular person or thing. Imagine if you will that you just fell in love with the idea of reality itself.

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To 'exist' in everyday life needs a strong foundation on the tasks of a dual nature, too - is it that you have removed the egoic desires that come with it?

Be careful what you assume about me. I have not removed all my ego or its desires. Still plenty of that left.

I have never made any promises or pretenses about "removing all my ego / desires". You guys often fall into the trap of assuming this about me, and it's very misleading. You will be disappointed.

The only different between me and you is that I understand what reality is. You don't. That's all. This understanding does not make me some magical special extra-good person. You will find plenty of humans who don't know anything about reality and yet are nicer and kinder that I am. I am a bit of a jerk, actually. I am not too empathetic and I don't care very much about people's personal feelings. Mostly all I care about is understanding reality. You may find this difficult to relate to.

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I'd like to know how you, specifically, look at the world after such a groundbreaking realization, yet in a manner that that takes into account all the subtle distinctions with regards to people, groups, institutions, politics, identities etc.?

How can it be explained? In many ways I look at the world just as you do. The only difference is that I understand what God is. You do not.

Again, it's a very subtle shift in perception. Nothing crazy.

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How to do you incorporate the Oneness and the infinite distinctions? I'd like to know the answer from a practical, everyday life point of view. Yes, because you have understood that form = formlessness, but how does it manifest in your everyday life - given the limits of consciousness that have been placed upon you as a human?

Who says it needs to manifest in any way at all?

Truth is Truth. Truth is not there to be used by you for anything. You just enjoy it. Maybe it helps you not take life too seriously.

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When you meet 'another' - what goes around in your head? How do you perceive them?

Mostly no different than before. I just also know in the back of my mind that they are projections of my own mind.

Most of my interactions with humans are transactional. I am not kissing the mail man when he drops off my mail. In fact, I don't even know his name.

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How has this realization of Oneness impacted the way you co-habit the world with other beings - in the relative sense, of course? 

Mostly I avoid humans. I'm not running around hugging everyone. I keep to myself and try to enjoy my life and work on my life purpose. I am not an extroverted person or a social person. Now, of course, I can still socialize if I choose to. But I have little desire to do so. You may be different. People have different personalities.

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If it might not be too much of a stretch - could magic / miracles / occult be an example of this? The merging and play of forms with formlessness?

It could, but your ideas of awakening are too fantastical. Mostly nothing happens. You have some awakening and then go about taking out the trash. It's not like fireworks are shooting out of my dick every day.

[Need Answers]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course, but that's AFTER you deal with horror of it.

Personally, I love it! But if you're worried about solipsism being true, you probably won't love it so much.

Yes, makes sense - as someone who is devoted to understanding life, I don't think it would matter much to me, as well - and it's great in a way - that if helps one focus on Being rather than 'being involved', and makes one more solution-oriented than being ego-oriented; that is, Love for the sake of Love for Oneself and all the forms. 

The point of this thread was to go about it the right way, with the right understanding - not believing everything that is said on the internet, with half-baked knowledge of things - one needs to be a skeptic until the complete realization of Truth, reached wholly by oneself, and the Truth can't be ever put into words - this, I have come to the very slight but significant realization of. 

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Be careful what you assume about me. I have not removed all my ego or its desires. Still plenty of that left.

I have never made any promises or pretenses about "removing all my ego / desires". You guys often fall into the trap of assuming this about me, and it's very misleading. You will be disappointed.

Correct. I agree. 

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You will find plenty of humans who don't know anything about reality and yet are nicer and kinder that I am. I am a bit of a jerk, actually. I am not too empathetic and I don't care very much about people's personal feelings. Mostly all I care about is understanding reality. You may find this difficult to relate to.

On the context of this, from a psychological point of view - does embodying the realization of God's essence have anything to do with different personality types? Say, we take a healthy minded, extroverted individual - and they reach this point of understanding - why would it be any different? Doesn't the Pure essence of Truth have a certain homogeneity to it at its very core- the Oneness of it all?  If anything, shouldn't it make an extroverted person more introverted - for they are now more in touch with their 'inner' self? 

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Mostly I avoid humans. I'm not running around hugging everyone. I keep to myself and try to enjoy my life and work on my life purpose. I am not an extroverted person or a social person. Now, of course, I can still socialize if I choose to. But I have little desire to do so. You may be different. People have different personalities

With an emphasis on the point above - were you always a person who basks in solitude, or did God-realization bring that change about? Did it strengthen your need for solitude, or did it make it less daunting than what it was in the earlier stages of life, making the synthesis into the outside world much easier? People prefer solitude for various reasons - but how much has your reason changed post awakening? I ask this because I know many un-realized Gods that are the same, yet without any deep understanding. 

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It could, but your ideas of awakening are too fantastical. Mostly nothing happens. You have some awakening and then go about taking out the trash. It's not like fireworks are shooting out of my dick every day.

So, does this have to do with individual giftedness - performing miracles, etc., and an extension of the infinite possibilities of Oneness, and not culmination of the understanding of Oneness, itself? 

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Need Answers said:

On the context of this, from a psychological point of view - does embodying the realization of God's essence have anything to do with different personality types?

Yes. Embodiment will always filter through your genetics, mind, personality type, character, etc.

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Say, we take a healthy minded, extroverted individual - and they reach this point of understanding - why would it be any different?

It will be different because how Truth is manifested very much depends on the structure of your mind.

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Doesn't the Pure essence of Truth have a certain homogeneity to it at its very core- the Oneness of it all? 

Truth is One, but how it gets manifest can vary enormously.

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If anything, shouldn't it make an extroverted person more introverted - for they are now more in touch with their 'inner' self? 

Not necessarily. There will not be any simple formulas for this kind of thing. People simply have very different personalities and minds. The complexity of variables is staggering.

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With an emphasis on the point above - were you always a person who basks in solitude,

Yes

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or did God-realization bring that change about?

No

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Did it strengthen your need for solitude, or did it make it less daunting than what it was in the earlier stages of life, making the synthesis into the outside world much easier? People prefer solitude for various reasons - but how much has your reason changed post awakening?

Awakening will make your innate character and personality stand out more. You will be more "you" than ever. You will be more authentic and unique as a character.

For example, as I had awakenings I noticed they actually made me less nicer and less outwardly cheery because I realized those were masks I wore for much of my life so that people like me. So I actually became more authentically me, but at the cost of people perhaps liking me less because I no longer wear the masks they want.

You stop giving a fuck about pleasing other humans. Of course some humans will not like this, because they like to be pleased.

The bottom line is, just be true to yourself and let the chips fall where they will.

[Dodo]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Need Answers The problem is you still haven't encountered yourself as God dreaming up the world. When you do, it will feel extremely solipsistic to you in a horrifying way.

Talking about dreams is all fun and games until you realize you dreamed up your mother. Then you shit your pants and cry.

Yes, a video on solipsism is planned. I am not yet ready to talk about it.

Your mother could have the same realisation of being God and dreaming a Leo up? 

How would it be horrifying, unless connected somehow with the Leo pov / feelings or the mother pov / feelings.

What is the difference between your mother realising she is God, you realising it and me realising it.?

We would feel like crying about different things, right? What makes these differences if reality is solipsistic? 

Solipsism for me would mean only I can awaken and others are damned to be part of my sleep...

[Need Answers]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Awakening will make your innate character and personality stand out more. You will be more "you" than ever. You will be more authentic and unique as a character.

For example, as I had awakenings I noticed they actually made me less nicer and less outwardly cheery because I realized those were masks I wore for much of my life so that people like me. So I actually became more authentically me, but at the cost of people perhaps liking me less because I no longer wear the masks they want.

You stop giving a fuck about pleasing other humans. Of course some humans will not like this, because they like to be pleased.

The bottom line is, just be true to yourself and let the chips fall where they will.

Yeah.

Thank you, Leo.

Your answers have been very helpful. 

[Juliano Zn]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't necessarily love anyone any more in the the relative human sense. My love is very metaphysical and detached. Most people would not even consider it love.

It's very subtle. It's a deep inner love for reality itself, not towards any particular person or thing. Imagine if you will that you just fell in love with the idea of reality itself.

@Leo Gura You said in your video about Love that reality is a love simulator. I thought that trying to understand people more deeply would generate love towards them.

For example, there are people I despise but if I put myself in their shoes and try to understand them, it naturally generates love. Not that I love them in the same way I love people that I like, but I love them more as "we are in this ship together and I understand you" kind of love. Is that what you're talking about?

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Juliano Zn said:

but I love them more as "we are in this ship together and I understand you" kind of love. Is that what you're talking about?

That's in the right direction.

But more generally you shouldn't just limit your notion of love to people or creatures.