Help with "Do Nothing" Meditation

[Samsonov]

Hi, I've been meditating for almost three years and a few weeks ago I stumbled upon Leo's video called "Do Nothing Meditation", and later watched shinzen young video on the same or similiar technique. I have been practicing it for a week or so and I have some doubts on wether I am doing it properly.
I can feel myself letting go of control and surrendering to the present, but then, If get lost in thoughts/monkey mind as soon as I become aware of it, I come back to the present immediatly or the thought evaporates within seconds, Is it me manipulating/controlling or am I executing the technique as I should?

It seems to me not very different than my regular awareness of awareness meditation. When watching Leo's video i imagined it would feel like monkey mind while keeping awareness. but for me it seems like the two wont go together. Have any of you tried it? What was your experience like?
Thanks for the help

[The0Self]

 

[Salvijus]

Hi @Samsonov

Whichever way you do it is okey because you benefit either way. Even if you're doing nothing lost in thinking that is still relatively okey and would still give you some benefit. Different people understand this "do nothing" practice differently according to their level maturity.

The highest and most powerful way of interprating "do nothing" is by dropping the intention even to meditate. Basicly when you're meditating there's an intention inside your mind and an effort to reach a certain state or goal. An earnest seeker can even become aware of that very subtle effort to become effortless. When you become aware of it you trancend all effort altogether. There you find an absolutlely effort-free space of awareness, untouched by anything, your True Self.

The moment you try to achieve awareness you're already not it, you become a seeker who's trying to get somewhere. But you don't need to make a single movement to be what you are. Awareness is not affected by what a seeker does or not do. It sounds like a riddle but it's very simple actually. And yet it takes a certain maturity to get it. I hope you get it someday.

Regards and good luck to you ?

Edited May 23, 2021 by Salvijus

[RedLine]

4 hours ago, The0Self said:

 

I don´t understand

Isn´t he contradicting himself?

 

Firs he say you can´t do nothing and let the toughts do whatever they want because that is bascically your regular non-mediation state but then he says you have to allow toughts with the zen teacher example... 

 

 

[Samsonov]

@Salvijus thanks for the answer, but still:
My concern is not with being lost in thought, I am just wondering if by me noticing it and becoming more present again, is it the manipulation of mind I am trying to avoid with this technique or is it just the nature of thought that by shining awareness upon it, it disapears

[Consilience]

The technique instructions I prefer to follow are Shinzen's:

1. Sit down.

2. When you notice an intention to control your attention, drop that intention.

3. If you can't drop that intention to control your attention, it wasn't an intention - i.e. don't worry about it. 

What you'll come to notice after many many many hours of meditation practice is that being lost in thought has super subtle layers of intentionality baked into it. At first, yeah it feels like being lost in thought is something we should allow because we're doing nothing. But actually at unconscious levels of mind, being lost in thought in an intention the mind is choosing to carry out. Please note, YOU are not choosing this anymore than you choose any of your intentions to spontaneously arise. The mind is choosing. 

Yet this can create an issue, you might not think "oh I shouldn't be lost in thought if being lost in thought is an intention to control attention!" However, having the intention to not be lost in thought is also an intention to control your attention.

The tricky of this practice is to go on full auto-pilot. The trick is to let the mind start to automatically notice intentions on its own and drop those on its own. Thoughts appearing in and of themselves are not an issue; you will find that many thoughts appear during Do Nothing practice. But just because thoughts appear, this does not mean thoughts have to have the stickiness of dragging into thought loops we're normally accustomed to during meditation. When we get pulled into thoughts, it's because a certain percentage of our mind (a higher percentage than the rest of the mind) wants to be thinking about whatever we're thinking about. When we notice that intentionality of the mind that wants to be lost in thinking, drop that and return to doing nothing. This doesn't mean thoughts or any aspect of our perceptive experience changes. It means the context of our holding of perceptive experience changes, but this changing of context is an automatic happening, reality cultivating mindfulness on its own. 

Overall, it takes practice to determine what is and is not an intention and whether you're actually intending to be lost in thought, or whether the lost in thought is a genuine act of automatic happening. It's actually both lol. 

The key is just sit down and experiment. You'll start to find a groove. In many ways, it feels like the Do Nothing technique is where all meditation practice ultimately leads. The dropping of the "meditator" and a surrender into the flow of reality moment by moment. It seems that regardless of what technique one is choosing, it is just a variation of the Do Nothing technique, at the highest level. So why not just cut the bullshit and sit down, do nothing? Well there are good reasons for that too but that's beyond the scope of this post. 

[Carl-Richard]

10 hours ago, Samsonov said:

I have some doubts on wether I am doing it properly.

Hahahaha it's the "do-nothing" method. You can never do it properly, because it cannot be done ?

This is serious advice btw. The do-nothing method is about accepting the fact that you're helplessly "doing" all the time and that that's totally fine.

In any meditation technique, can you just accept that you're completely garbage at it and that it's completely OK? If you can get there, the job is done and the technique does itself.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[The0Self]

5 hours ago, RedLine said:

I don´t understand

Isn´t he contradicting himself?

 

Firs he say you can´t do nothing and let the toughts do whatever they want because that is bascically your regular non-mediation state but then he says you have to allow toughts with the zen teacher example... 

 

 

When viewed as the other side of the coin as self inquiry, surrender = Ignore and relax all experience/intention/thought except for the experience/intention/thought of ignoring and relaxing all experience/intention/thought.

Relax all intention except for the intention to relax all intention. Neither action nor inaction.

Then (once Witnessing or at least deep quietude emerges) apply that intention to itself. Ignore even the thought of ignoring thought. Relax even the intention to relax all intention.

What is revealed cannot be described. It's not an achievement.

It sounds like he's contradicting himself because it's a reflection of nonduality in experience, which isn't real, so paradox is inevitable; action is inaction.

Edited May 23, 2021 by The0Self

[Salvijus]

16 hours ago, Samsonov said:

@Salvijus thanks for the answer, but still:
My concern is not with being lost in thought, I am just wondering if by me noticing it and becoming more present again, is it the manipulation of mind I am trying to avoid with this technique or is it just the nature of thought that by shining awareness upon it, it disapears

It's the later. When you become more aware it feels like some amount of thinking has dropped. But it dosnt nessecarily dissapear. It can play itself out in a larger space of awareness of pure Being. Sometimes you can even experience a train of past impressions dissolve in front of you very fast and you're just witnessing untouched by anything.

There're many ways to do it. You can just observe thoughts like a silent witness without any judgement or evaluation. Just observe without any reaction to what you see. It can lead you to the very bottom of awareness. Either way you do it is fine. You benefit regardless. Chose a way that you resonate and that feels easy for you and that's enough. "Remember easy means right" ~Osho sayed once I think.

Good luck ?

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Salvijus

[Samsonov]

@Consilience Thank you, very helpful

[RedLine]

21 hours ago, The0Self said:

When viewed as the other side of the coin as self inquiry, surrender = Ignore and relax all experience/intention/thought except for the experience/intention/thought of ignoring and relaxing all experience/intention/thought.

Relax all intention except for the intention to relax all intention. Neither action nor inaction.

Then (once Witnessing or at least deep quietude emerges) apply that intention to itself. Ignore even the thought of ignoring thought. Relax even the intention to relax all intention.

What is revealed cannot be described. It's not an achievement.

It sounds like he's contradicting himself because it's a reflection of nonduality in experience, which isn't real, so paradox is inevitable; action is inaction.

What happens to me when I do this technique is that I am in a daydreaming state most of the time, where I am aware of my mind creaing a lot of images and stories. It looks like the less-efford state, since if I try to cut the daydreaming it feels like "do something". Ia m not sure if I am doing the technique correctly. It is actually very similiar to sleep for me, periods of some silence and periods of simbolic activity...

Edited May 24, 2021 by RedLine

[The0Self]

27 minutes ago, RedLine said:

What happens to me when I do this technique is that I am in a daydreaming state most of the time, where I am aware of my mind creaing a lot of images and stories. It looks like the less-efford state, since if I try to cut the daydreaming it feels like "do something". Ia m not sure if I am doing the technique correctly. It is actually very similiar to sleep for me, periods of some silence and periods of simbolic activity...

Nice. If I may, I can clearly see the subtle flaw in your technique (if your goal is awakening). It’s easy to fix:

You’re overlooking the fact that one needs to use a line/thread in order to plumb the depths — you can’t just jump (well you can but only if you’re lucky). Allow yourself one delusion to eradicate all other delusions. The only situation when you’ll actually do nothing is when the mind is extremely stilled to the point of witnessing (body identification gone; feels like you’re God looking from the outside in).

Here’s the delusion that you allow yourself, as a position from which to destroy all other delusions:

Hold the intention to relax (let go of) all intention except for the intention to relax all intentions.

Just do that, and only that, until what you will very likely perceive to be enlightenment — it’s not enlightenment, it’s Witnessing. Once here, relax even the intention to relax all intention.

Full circle.

 

Essentially, turn away from all experience, and then when the subject is the only object left, turn away from it as well (forget your self; go away; unhappen).

 

There will be no notion of having gained anything.

 

Good luck! 

Edited May 24, 2021 by The0Self

[RedLine]

3 hours ago, The0Self said:

 

Hold the intention to relax (let go of) all intention except for the intention to relax all intentions.

 

Oh, ok, I understood just the opposite from the Shinzen instructions, what a mess. I thought that you should drop the intention to relax intentions.

 

Do nothing. Basic Instructions

1. Let whatever happens, happen.

2. Whenever you’re aware of an intention to control your attention, drop that intention.

Shinzen Young.

https://www.shinzen.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/FiveWaystoKnowYourself_ver1.6.pdf

 

I think I obtain the state you describe keeping the intention "watch as I am meditating" As if I were the whole room and I was watching my body sitting there.

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by RedLine

[The0Self]

28 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Oh, ok, I understood just the opposite from the Shinzen instructions, what a mess. I thought that you should drop the intention to relax intentions.

 

Do nothing. Basic Instructions

1. Let whatever happens, happen.

2. Whenever you’re aware of an intention to control your attention, drop that intention.

That's a great practice.

"2. Whenever you’re aware of an intention to control your attention, drop that intention." -- drop (relax) that intention is still an intention. It's congruent with what I wrote (the first part, anyway).

28 minutes ago, RedLine said:

I think I obtain the state you describe keeping the intention "watch as I am meditating" As if I were the whole room and I was watching my body sitting there.

Perhaps. Witnessing is kind of a damn high state though. Even jhanas usually come before it. It's often confused with enlightenment. It's on the edge of the end of experiencing. It's almost certainly what Shinzen refers to as the "figure ground reversal." But yeah, perhaps. It's quite undeniable when it happens.

Edited May 24, 2021 by The0Self