The Biases Of Leo:

[Flowerfaeiry]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

My work has a strong bias towards pure understanding. Pure understanding is not always useful and it does not promise you embodiment.

Lack of embodiment is one of the biggest problems I've had with your work. A lot of people come to spirituality looking to heal and actualized.org is like, we're actually going to deconstruct reality here. I've come to really appreciated it ultimately and have found other teachers for embodiment work. 

[Heart of Space]

Leo is too masculine.  As a gay man I feel a little left out sometimes.  

[Superfluo]

@actualizing25 The key is the intention. Which path among the three options has more love and joy? If for you it's the end suffering path, then obviously do that. The same for the other cases.

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, actualizing25 said:

@Leo Gura But you can't deny that there are some people out there, who do enlightenment work to escape suffering and they become enlightened and end their suffering. So it is possible.

A broken clock is right twice a day.

I admit and embrace my bias for understanding. It is not a problem from my POV. It is my love and passion.

4 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

A lot of people come to spirituality looking to heal and actualized.org is like, we're actually going to deconstruct reality here.

Exactly!

That's what my work is. My work is not designed to sooth your every need.

You have to understand that teachings can have various purposes.

As a serious philosopher my work cannot be simply practical. There is a higher purpose to what I do.

You don't come to Albert Einstien and say, "What you say about space-time is interesting, but how does it help me feel better?"

[4201]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Your logic is your own. It does not apply to me or even most other people.

Practically speaking people who seek the end of suffering will never reach it because it tends to be a selfish and needy motivation.

If what you live for is to end suffering, I feel sorry for you. Your life is so narrow. And, btw, the best way to do that is to kill yourself. This is what the desire to end suffering usually leads to in practice. It rarely leads to God.

All suffering is lack of understanding, there is no reason to make a distinction between the two.

I do understand that you suffer from chronic illnesses and went above and beyond to try and heal them. I can see why you would despise the idea of seeking lack of suffering because you essentially did that and it did not work out. But the self that wants to be free of this suffering needs to be fully accepted, not hated for having "failed", and projecting this hate to @Salvijus will not help either.

Any suffering is a sensation that is being rejected. I feel a blade cutting open my skin, I don't like it and therefore I suffer it. It sure would be challenging for me to be in your situation and accept the sensations of my body indicating me that my tyroid gland is falling appart or simply accept the fact that my body lacks energy because of that. But really there is nothing else to do for now than to accept it. There might or might not be a cure (I can't tell you, I am not a doctor) but until you find your cure, the best way forward is to just accept your current condition fully. This will not only put you closer to God, but allow you to fully let go of any suffering which is never necessary in the first place.

If you want to dismiss everything I say because "I'm not woke" is your choice but even if I'm totally off the mark here, your emotional reaction to what @Salvijus wrote at least warrants some contemplation. This idea that killing the body will lead to lack of suffering is total bullshit. If you reject God's dream that is this life, what will God do? Grant you heaven? God is not the ego, if reality is the way it is, that's God's will. If you suffer from tyroid problems, that's God's will. If you kill your body to avoid your tyroid problem, God might make you dream in a world where everything is the same but your tyroid problem is 100x worse. I'm exagerating here, but killing the body is really the ego trying to overwrite God's will, and I don't think this will lead to what the ego wants. But we can only speculate about what would happen within the dream if we kill the body, just like we can only speculate what would happen within the dream if I open the door to my room. Killing the body is still content, something that happens within the movie. There's no guarantee that killing the main character ends the movie or makes it "better" for that main character.

Edited May 24, 2021 by 4201

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, 4201 said:

your emotional reaction to what @Salvijus wrote

Lol

I don't even know why I bother casting pearls here.

[Derek White]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

For example, I can understand Hitler without embodying him. Embodiment is a limited subset of pure understanding.

No you can't. Your understanding will be incomplete. To fully understand Hitler you would have to embody Hitler.

The same is true of levels of consciousness. You cannot know level 100 consciousness if you are at level 1. Even if you reached level 100 and fell back to level 1, then you will only retain a fraction of understanding of level 100 not all of it. 

It's sort of like a blind man trying to understand color, except in consciousness's case, the blind man only understands color if he is seeing it in real time.

Not to mention, there are limits to how much you can understand if you don't embody. Embodiment basically means shedding of biases. If you have biases towards your culture, sex, food, etc. then you can't get an accurate blueprint. To do that you would need to let go of these attachment to be meta/unbiased, which is embodiment. In this way, embodiment and understand are not two different things.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Derek White

[blackchair]

7 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

Leo is too masculine.  As a gay man I feel a little left out sometimes.  

im gay too and dont have problem with his masculinity. 

[Leo Gura]

57 minutes ago, Derek White said:

No you can't. Your understanding will be incomplete. To fully understand Hitler you would have to embody Hitler.

That's technically correct. However, you do not have enough time in your life to embody everything. You can only embody a tiny amount of what you can understand.

And it is not desirable to embody Hitler. But you can still understand him within reason without embodiment.

Embodiment will always be a subset of understanding.

You don't need to punch yourself in the face to understand that doing so is not a good idea.

[Flowerfaeiry]

Embodiment can open doors to new understandings

[Derek White]

47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's technically correct. However, you do not have enough time in your life to embody everything. You can only embody a tiny amount of what you can understand.

And it is not desirable to embody Hitler. But you can still understand him within reason without embodiment.

Embodiment will always be a subset of understanding.

You don't need to punch yourself in the face to understand that doing so is not a good idea.

You mean a reasonable amount of understanding without having to fully embody the thing you are trying to understand. In which case it's still partial understanding. 

Embodiment and understanding are not different, they are the same. You need to shed biases to make better blueprints, which is basically embodiment.

But it is desirable to embody god or higher states of consciousness, is it not? Or maybe you think it will happen on it's own, no need to rush it?

 

Isn't this whole thing coming because you are not conscious enough? If tomorrow you raised your level of consciousness then perhaps you would value embodiment over understanding. Raising of consciousness tends to change one's set of values. Like, this whole thing is coming because you embody Leo Gura and are attached to Leo Gura, you fear embodiment, you fear losing your false self, but that also keeps you alive. 

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Derek White said:

In which case it's still partial understanding. 

So? I would rather have partial understanding of Hitler than no understanding.

But also, there is such a thing as Total Understanding too. Understanding does always have to be partial.

Quote

Embodiment and understanding are not different, they are the same. You need to shed biases to make better blueprints, which is basically embodiment.

If they are the same, then why are you worried about my embodiment?

Quote

But it is desirable to embody god or higher states of consciousness, is it not?

Sure

But God is not the only issue at stake in this discussion. There is much else to understand about life. And not all of it needs to be embodied.

Quote

Isn't this whole thing coming because you are not conscious enough? If tomorrow you raised your level of consciousness then perhaps you would value embodiment over understanding.

Consider the possibility that I simply value understanding for its own sake, and you don't.

It's like I'm telling you that I enjoy chocolate ice cream and you're telling me, "Something is wrong with you. You shouldn't enjoy it."

[Derek White]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If they are the same, then why are you worried about my embodiment?

I'm not worried about your embodiment. I'm just having a conversation.

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Consider the possibility that I simply value understanding for its own sake, and you don't.

Embodiment is understanding.

You cannot understand color without seeing it. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Derek White

[Derek White]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's like I'm telling you that I enjoy chocolate ice cream and you're telling me, "Something is wrong with you. You shouldn't enjoy it."

No, it's more like you will transcend your desire for chocolate ice cream once you reach high levels of consciousness because there will be no like or dislike at that level. 

[Leo Gura]

@Derek White Your view on this matter is overly-simplistic and naive.

Gain more experience actually doing the work and you will make some new distinctions.

[bejapuskas]

9 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

Leo is too masculine.  As a gay man I feel a little left out sometimes.  

I think we have to work on this acceptance of women and people who are not straight and cisgender here. There are so many occasions where I think something somebody wrote must be very uninviting or even offensive. And we have diversity here in terms of this, which we can facilitate for learning, but we do not do it as much as we could. Cultural diversity too, it is very interesting to discuss societal issues with people from cultural backgrounds, even when the bias is more somewhere, it can also be different and people can learn from biases. I think we should stop just treating development as arriving at one truth, which Leo does not even claim to have.

@Leo Gura  It seems to me that you do not talk about development in stage green enough and people do not see your embodiment of it. Like in the JP video I thought it was amazing when you gave a more stage green understanding of politics and why it is important. But I still get the sense that people often see you as the ultimate authority figure, which they like to parrot, and sensitive people who can really contribute to this community get shut down, because they do not advocate for what you talk about most of the time. Although you seem to understand that conceptually from what I heard from you in your videos and some comments on this forum as well. I just think the communication is lacking, if you know what I mean, people misinterpreting things.

[herghly]

On 23/05/2021 at 6:55 AM, Leo Gura said:

My work has a strong bias towards pure understanding. Pure understanding is not always useful and it does not promise you embodiment.

My work is not results oriented. So if you care about maximizing results you have a different value set than me.

I don't wanna hijack this thread.  Who are good teachers the teach maximizing the results?

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

people misinterpreting things.

That will always be the case. Get used to it.

You guys need to understand that I will not be bending over backwards to suit each one of your tastes and personal needs. Lower your expectations for what Actualized.org is. The expectations are getting way out of hand.

[mandyjw]

 I know it's "your" forum, and I respect that, but democracy is good stuff. I don't think anyone should tell you how to make your videos or what courses to make or what to post on your blog but I do think listening to input from others about a community you've built is smart. We have polls. People work for you for free to moderate. Shouldn't they have a voice? 

[bejapuskas]

@Leo Gura Sure, you cannot really avoid that, but there is space to improve the way you communicate, no? Just like there are spiritual teachers who get the message across in a more gentle way or a more direct way and that is not random, they are quite consistent in doing what they are doing. It is a conscious process. You might say people will always misinterpret things and you cannot be more right. But the extent to which girls and queer people are bullied on this forum is crazy. And this aversion is also limiting the extent to which people are capable to arrive at a more objective understanding, it is not just a mechanism that limits the amount sensitive people get butt hurt in discussions, it comes from a place of huge shadow.

For example you often summarize stage green as social justice warriors who do meaningless things. And perhaps they do kind of meaningless things if you look at it from the big scale, the global scale. And anything on the global scale can be seen as quite meaningless. But then these social justice warriors with the liberal opinions are then the ones who are actually going to vote for Bernie. And the ones who have a green shadow won't, unless they are blindly following you. And then Syria gets bombed, minorities get oppressed etc. It is not a soft issue of people having biased views, you have one million subscribers on youtube, you have some influence on people and if your audience is mostly stage orange insecure men, they will go tunnel vision mode on dating advice and get only incel perspectives.

Incel perspectives are still prevalent here, although they have been banned together with all the different pills and JP. For example, in one thread, a guy said that a girl did not give him consent, but then "his penis just slipped inside somehow". Anybody who has experience with sex would understand how much of a bullshit this is, it cannot happen so easily unless you're bathing in lube. It was non-consensual sex and nobody called it out on the thread. People actually insulted that girl. And god knows what kind of individual that was, maybe she was traumatized and did not want to have sex, and even though the OP claimed she enjoyed it, it might not have been true and you have to tell these inexperienced guys about how consent is important, how communication is important etc...  You are not treating this issue justly if you do not change your style of communication at all. Although you tell people to go read some feminist texts and you say things such as "a true man is a feminist", which I totally agree with, the rest of what you say totally overshadows that. And people think sex is only physical, they value one night stands over relationships, they have become the opposite of strictily monogamous christians. And that is even with you mentioning in the "How To Make a Girl Squirt" video, which works amazingly well by the way in a long term relationship while being useless in a one night stand, that being comfortable is so important. And sure, tell the girl you want to fuck her hard and eat her out and shit so she can overcome her sexual shame. But then also a part of that is consent and communication which is not common sense for our boys here. They don't understand what women go through.

Preety India is an Indian woman. I experienced night Mumbai myself, that place is fucking scary even for guys. And all these men justifying rape and non-consensual sex can be so traumatizing. These guys from 1st world countries don't understand why feminism is so fucking important, because they grew up in utopia. Don't you think it is important to teach them that? They cannot just skip through spiral stages.

Like you literally have your best moderators leaving, because of their gender. Ananta was the most efficient person to avoid spam on this forum after probably you. She is gone now, because the insecure guys could not appreciate her, because she was such a good moderator, that they did not even realize that there were spammers here because she banned them so quickly. 

All these submissive, feminine, queer guys being told that they need to be what they are not. Sure, they should integrate, but they can also find somebody suitable for them and do what they like, they don't need to appeal to some Actualized.org gender roles. All these people trying to "adjust reality" to their gender binary views. Asking questions like how does my model that only includes feminine and masculine explain switch dynamics, homosexuality or trans? It is ridiculous really, you even made a video on this, but it has less views than most of the other videos, because people are not interested in gender. 

I guess it might cost you another portion of your fanbase. But are you going to do this for truth? Motivating others to seek understanding and mutual understanding?  Isn't mutual understanding a part of understanding?