The Biases Of Leo:

[Zion]

*This is not meant to demonize or offend Leo in any way*

What are the biases to look out for when applying some of Leo's teachings to one's life? I think it'd be very helpful to depict the biases Leo holds within his teachings to better understand the root of his teachings. 

What are the personal biases shown throughout Leo's videos, if any?

How do his biases affect his teachings? 

How do you determine the biases of a teacher? 

Whats the difference between a bias and a truth? You may say direct experience, but what if my direct experience is the determining of truth through someone else's bias? This is to say, is truth biased? How can truth not be biased?

Thanks for any help

Edited May 22, 2021 by Zion

[Leo Gura]

My work has a strong bias towards pure understanding. Pure understanding is not always useful and it does not promise you embodiment.

My work is not results oriented. So if you care about maximizing results you have a different value set than me.

[UnbornTao]

2 hours ago, Zion said:

How do you determine the biases of a teacher? 

Well, I would imagine the first requisite would be to notice your own and to become free of them. 

[Mips]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

My work has a strong bias towards pure understanding. Pure understanding is not always useful and it does not promise you embodiment.

My work is not results oriented. So if you care about maximizing results you have a different value set than me.

I’m really curious about this. Do you not see embodiment as a central aim of the process? Wouldn’t that be up there on the same level as pure understanding in terms of importance? 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Mips

[Salvijus]

@Leo Gura do you that understanding is more important then the end of suffering? 

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

So if you care about maximizing results you have a different value set than me.

You think different people have different longings? I think all people are fundamentally the same and long for the same thing. Consciously or unconsciously the same mechanism is driving all people toward a certain goal ultimately. Person who goes to the bar, a sciencetist, a meditator they all try to reach the same goal. I assume that goal is enlightenment (whatever that means) or end of suffering perhaps. Perhaps the only reason you or scientists care about understanding is just becomes they expect some sense of fulfillment from it. To fill a whole inside. 

Just some pondering stuff.

Take care ? 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Salvijus

[Mips]

@Salvijus From my perspective it’s up @Leo Gura what he wants to get out of it - it doesn’t matter what others do with it as it’s his life. I’m just very interested as to why he gives slightly less emphasis on embodiment than pure understanding as it might give some perspective to my outlook on this process. 

[Salvijus]

@Mips ?

[Rajneeshpuram]

I observe with curiosity that first Leo explains that we shouldnt be attached to any particular side or belief system, because is the ego who judges and has his desires and inclinations. But then he shows special attachment towards the leftist-globalist political movement, showing special love with Joe Biden and incredible hate towards Donald Trump, in fact, I've seen forum mates been banned or warned for criticizing  Joe, which is freedom of speach, a human right.

I think spreading one thing and doing the opposite, is quite incongruent.

[Leo Gura]

13 hours ago, Mips said:

I’m really curious about this. Do you not see embodiment as a central aim of the process? Wouldn’t that be up there on the same level as pure understanding in terms of importance? 

To me understanding is more important than embodiment because you cannot pursue embodiment without correct understanding.

It's like you're saying: the building is more important than the blueprint. But you cannot create a building without a blueprint. And the blueprint of the building is actually of a higher truth than the building itself. I don't care about the building as much as I care about the blueprint. Most people aren't like that. Most people just want the building and they don't care about the blueprint, because they are pretty selfish.

This is not to say that embodiment is not important. It is important and I do care about it. But it is not the most important thing to me. Because you will always be able to understand way more than you will be able to embody. And not everything understood deserves embodiment. For example, I can understand Hitler without embodying him. Embodiment is a limited subset of pure understanding. If I place embodiment above understanding I would not understand many things because you simply don't have enough time to embody everything.

9 hours ago, Salvijus said:

@Leo Gura to you that understanding is more important then the end of suffering? 

Yes. I don't care about the end of suffering.

I mean... I don't want to suffer. But ending it is not what excites me about life. My motivation for life is not negative, and I think people who place the end of suffering as their top priority are making a big mistake. To me, that is an act of selfishness.

Quote

You think different people have different longings?

Obviously

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I think all people are fundamentally the same and long for the same thing. Consciously or unconsciously the same mechanism is driving all people toward a certain goal ultimately. Person who goes to the bar, a sciencetist, a meditator they all try to reach the same goal.

This is way too simplistic and reductionistic for my taste.

Of course you can say all people seek Love. I have said that. But this is only at a very high level.

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I assume that goal is enlightenment (whatever that means) or end of suffering perhaps.

My goal is not the end of suffering, although I don't mind if I get that one day.

Quote

Perhaps the only reason you or scientists care about understanding is just becomes they expect some sense of fulfillment from it. To fill a whole inside. 

Of course, fulfillment. But so what? There are many ways to fulfill yourself.

[Mips]

Good explanation, thanks @Leo Gura

[blackchair]

only "bias" that I learned from Leo that's there is different kind of turquoise, that's it......

[Salvijus]

9 hours ago, Salvijus said:

@Leo Gura do you that understanding is more important then the end of suffering? 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes. I don't care about the end of suffering.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course, fulfillment. But so what? There are many ways to fulfill yourself.

Don't you see? Everybody wants fulfillment. An everlasting perfect fulfillment without any suffering aka "end of suffering".

That's what all human beings long for including you and me and everybody. All desires are just the same one desire for perfect fulfillment. So don't you see that it is not understanding of reality that is most important but a perfect fulfillment that is most important? Everything else is secondary.

This has huge implications really. Yes understanding has it's place I'm not trying to belittle that. I'm just asking what can be more important then perfect fulfillment? If understanding of reality can't get you perfect fulfillment is it really most important then the end of suffering? When seeking understanding is just a failed attempt to find perfect fulfillment?

You say you don't care about the end of suffering but I say you have no choice about it. All people care only about the end of suffering/perfect fulfillment and nothing else. Some are conscious about it and others not. Different people use different means to get there. But the only way to get there is permenant enlightenment.

I wonder if you agree with this or no

Cheers! ?

Edited May 23, 2021 by Salvijus

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

So don't you see that it is not understanding of reality that is most important but a perfect fulfillment that is most important? Everything else is secondary.

Your logic is your own. It does not apply to me or even most other people.

Practically speaking people who seek the end of suffering will never reach it because it tends to be a selfish and needy motivation.

If what you live for is to end suffering, I feel sorry for you. Your life is so narrow. And, btw, the best way to do that is to kill yourself. This is what the desire to end suffering usually leads to in practice. It rarely leads to God.

[actualizing25]

@Leo Gura But you can't deny that there are some people out there, who do enlightenment work to escape suffering and they become enlightened and end their suffering. So it is possible. Everyone has their own bias, when it comes to this work. Why not appreciate all biases instead of saying that one is better than the other?

[Superfluo]

@actualizing25 It is possible. But they're escaping. Running away. They're not facing life head on. They are not fighting, they are afraid. Do you think that behaviour is equal to facing life fiercely and with bravery? I don't think so. If you think so you're saying that bravery is equal to fear. Doesn't mean we don't understand or care about them. All perspective are valid, but perspective can be on different levels and levels are put on scales (which imply higher or lower, better or worse) in order to have levels. 

Sure, they might not be aware they're running away. But they're missing a lot doing so.

Also, to appreciate all biases you have to see that wanting to have everything on the same level is a bias. Where is it written that making all the same level is better than not doing it? This question already imply using levels to enstablish not having levels as better.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Superfluo

[Thought Art]

Limiting suffering can be part of your work. Whats the points of just suffering through life? 

[actualizing25]

@Superfluo Lets say there are different levels. Who says that self-understanding is a "better bias" than escaping suffering? What are the reasons for being so? See, Leo is biased towards self-understanding and is devaluing the other path and labels it as selfish and egoic and then other people who pursue enlightenment to escape suffering devalue the other path as egoic and selfish. From a meta-perspective we have two different parties who are denying the other one. But of course we can have a third party who pursues enlightenment to understand AND to escape suffering.

[Eren Eeager]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

And, btw, the best way to do that is to kill yourself.

I would have killed myself a long time ago if this is true. There is no way out of existence but through existence.

[Scholar]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

And, btw, the best way to do that is to kill yourself.

With all your "understanding", I find it surprising that you are so utterly blind to the obvious. But go ahead, you are a master rationalizer. You could rationalize yourself out of any challenge to anything you say.

To those who lack the biases you have, it will be utterly obvious what is going on.

[Salvijus]

 

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I feel sorry for you

Lol. How very compassionate of you.

no seriously. That was a strong letter from you. I think maybe you misunderstood something what I wrote. I'm sorry if I touched a nerve. I hope you're okey. Regards ?

Edited May 23, 2021 by Salvijus