Bernardo Kastrup and John Vervaeke

[JosephKnecht]

For those who enjoy long talks on ontology, metaphysics, epistemology here is 8 hours of dialogue between two of the brightest minds. Enjoy!!  

[Leo Gura]

Not God-realized. Just more beating around the bush, lost in mind.

[Preety_India]

I think calling someone God realized should entail a huge responsibility. 

[Leo Gura]

@Preety_India The only thing it entails is realizing what God is.

[spiritual memes]

On 5/24/2021 at 2:20 PM, Leo Gura said:

Not God-realized. Just more beating around the bush, lost in mind.

I don't think either of them claimed to be god realized. Bernardo Kastrup has some of the best philosophical arguments for consciousness being fundamental. His articles have been published in scientific american and he has held his own in arguments against prominent materialist philosophers. Pretty much anyone can plug a fuckton of 5-meo and become god realized. Not everyone can hold their own in debates against materialists like Kastrup can.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, spiritual memes said:

Bernardo Kastrup has some of the best philosophical arguments for consciousness being fundamental.

But he is still misrepresenting consciousness.

It's easy to beat materialists in debates when you don't tell them that they are God, and God is Love.

[Petals]

@Leo Gura I think one idea in Kastrup's metaphysics is that God does not know what he is doing in the sense of what is called 'meta-cognition' - as an example in my personal case: I am holding a cup and I KNOW that I am holding a cup. so God does not have this self-reflective introspective awareness of what it is doing and therefore also no 'plan'. that self-reflective introspective awareness comes only into action via us, i.e. our specific (human) consciousness/mind that is segregated from mind-at-large. all this reminds me of when you said sth like this: 'if you do not realize God, it will not know itself to be God. God can only realize itself as God through you.'

do you see a connection here? does God not have any introspective self-reflective awareness except through us? does God have no plan (however that may look)?

Edited May 26, 2021 by Petals

[Leo Gura]

It's not so simple. God can be infinitely conscious of itself, and the human is actually the obstacle to that.

God's plan is itself. God is Love. And that is the plan.

[JosephKnecht]

On 5/24/2021 at 3:20 PM, Leo Gura said:

Not God-realized. Just more beating around the bush, lost in mind.

Without beating around the bush, there would be no bush.  

Philosophical Understanding is important for setting the right conceptual foundation for a God Realization. 

Concepts are necessary before they are transcended.

These two guys push the limit of their conceptual understanding by elucidating the patterns between their highest abstractions. 

If they were God-realized, would they even speak? To whom would they speak and why?