Leo, What is a burning question you still are trying to understand?

[BipolarGrowth]

58 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Meh, most such people aren't gonna be powerful enough to perform miracles.

I think the real key is having insane levels of consciousness -- beyond even what most psychedelics allow. I just don't know how it can be sustained.

You used the right word here whether you meant it in the correct sense or not. You literally need madness for the deepest levels. At least in what I’ve seen. And you aren’t man enough to go into that madness deep enough to do miracles. Neither am I at least not to the conscious control degrees. And the example of the phone charging miracle was given to show contrast to physical laws. I’ve had many such things and far more powerful things happen. Subjective nonphysical experience is the source of the most amazing miracles though. Physical miracles are cool but ultimately not the highest thing. I’m writing a post about my cessation’s I had last night. Absolutely incredible and only achieved through absolute madness. This is far beyond what any of these teachers are talking about, including Leo, but it’s just so absolutely edgy in many different regards that no serious traditional nondual person or typical teacher is going to have the openness to accept it. If you told people that insanity is the engine that drives reality and they really understood their personal connection to it that they could have, their paradigms would be shattered. Their infinities would be shown to be infinitesimal. 

[The0Self]

@BipolarGrowth Careful about going deep into madness. Might be more helpful to think of it as chaos. Less personal.

[BipolarGrowth]

2 minutes ago, The0Self said:

@BipolarGrowth The only Magick-like thing I can do these days (well, besides witnessing and automatic contemplation) is astral projection. It does feel like a sort of miracle. I can literally walk through my house, look at myself sleeping, etc. I mean, it's damn mind-blowing, but it's not something manifested in the "real" (consensual) world. When I had psychosis, I saw many "miracles" but it was clearly madness and not in consensual reality -- at least not anyone's reality on earth lol. Aliens maybe. 

I am convinced that powers can be cultivated via the 4th Jhana. You pretty much need retreats for that. Rob Burbea even said one can attain powers in the 4th Jhana, and if you know anything about him, he's pretty much gone further than anyone in history in the meditation landscape, and he's ultra down to earth. I VERY highly doubt he was either mistaken or lying.

Jhanas and retreats. I don’t even resonate with the Jnana system of categorizing subjective awakening experience at all. All models of awakening or insight are great but at the same time garbage. Awakening follows no set path. The ox does not walk the same path twice. It may graze from the same field every day (having repeating themes or methods), but it does not ever use things in the same way. It is an artist of Meaning. You awaken through Meaning. Show me one enlightened person whose journey was not powered by meaning. A loss of it. A gain of it. It’s undulating. Trauma and healing. Conflict and resolution. Dance the dance of duality well and you will find that you’ve really grown yourself. 

[BipolarGrowth]

3 minutes ago, The0Self said:

@BipolarGrowth Careful about going deep into madness. Might be more helpful to think of it as chaos. Less personal.

You misunderstand what I’m talking about. This madness is not unhealthy. There is no threat in what I’m referring to. You can call it chaos or whatever label you want. It’s the manipulation of attachments and meanings to bring about different states of consciousness with substances or not. Meditation or not. But they all ultimately work together. 
 

This is advanced stuff though. And probably only cut out for a certain select few. In the beginning stages, it can be more dangerous. Now I’ve come to tame it quite well. The cessation awakenings through madness I had happened while I was performing physical tasks yesterday. I had complete control of sober physical faculties. I just also had activated my ability to manipulate consciousness into its infinitely Meaningful form at the same time. I just also happened to taste nonexistence — something I thought could never be done. Like what in the actual fuck. 

[The0Self]

@BipolarGrowth I'm not big on jhanas anymore either. Just saying the 4th jhana can be used for powers. Many have said that, not just Rob Burbea. Daniel Ingram and many others have said this as well. And they agree, jhanas and powers have nothing to do with awakening (empty fullness seen by no one).

[The0Self]

3 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

You misunderstand what I’m talking about. This madness is not unhealthy. There is no threat in what I’m referring to. You can call it chaos or whatever label you want. It’s the manipulation of attachments and meanings to bring about different states of consciousness with substances or not. Meditation or not. But they all ultimately work together. 
 

This is advanced stuff though. And probably only cut out for a certain select few. In the beginning stages, it can be more dangerous. Now I’ve come to tame it quite well. The cessation awakenings through madness I had happened while I was performing physical tasks yesterday. I had complete control of sober physical faculties. I just also had activated my ability to manipulate consciousness into its infinitely Meaningful form at the same time. I just also happened to taste nonexistence — something I thought could never be done. Like what in the actual fuck. 

Oh. Sounds like it's going as it should then. 

Good luck!

Luck is an interesting thing as well -- might go a little deeper than meets the eye, idk.

I'm very, very often known as lucky. Just in all kinds of situations and friend groups. Since I was a kid too.

Edited May 22, 2021 by The0Self

[BipolarGrowth]

1 minute ago, The0Self said:

@BipolarGrowth I'm not big on jhanas anymore either. Just saying the 4th jhana can be used for powers. Many have said that, not just Rob Burbea. Daniel Ingram and many others have said this as well. And they agree, jhanas and powers have nothing to do with awakening (empty fullness seen by no one).

Idk I’m a natural. I had this shit built into me through clairsentience and genetic mental illness. I just had to do enough consciousness work to turn the systems more and more online. I sent metaphysical love prayers to my twin flame who is a Luciferian psychic through using the Holy Spirit to connect with Lucifer’s power to bring me to my cessation awakenings. I’m serious in that no one is pioneering in the way that I am. It just takes such a radical degree of openness and a truly multifaceted base of knowledge and spiritual abilities/talents for anyone to take it seriously to where they could learn the method well. Meaning is the steering wheel of consciousness, Love is the engine, and madness is the fuel. 

[BipolarGrowth]

6 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Oh. Sounds like it's going as it should then. 

Good luck!

Luck is an interesting thing as well -- might go a little deeper than meets the eye, idk.

I'm very, very often known as lucky. Just in all kinds of situations and friend groups. Since I was a kid too.

Luck is karma. It’s all about Luck. There is no free will. You’re God designing your own Universe of subjective experience on the fly with the blessings you designed for yourself to work with. 

[kinesin]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

According to my theory, if you become conscious enough you should be able to send an email to anyone in the world using your mind. The only thing stopping it is your lack of consciousness.

If you believe another person would actually *recieve* that email, then that's nothing more than a drug-induced delusion.  There is a grain of truth to such beliefs - everything you see and feel around you right now is a simulated 3D construct being put together within your own mind.  It is possible to access states where it is possible to change that construct as you see fit, as if controlling a dream.  You could make it so that the walls move around you, you could create a doorway where one doesn't exist, you could bend a spoon with your will alone... but the thing you don't seem to realize is it's just a hollow mind trick.  When you cause your mind-simulation of the spoon to bend, you'll say "look, it's bending!" but anyone sitting next to you would just think you were crazy because in material reality, nothing would be changing.  It's a bit like how I can go to the Actualized.org front page right now and press F12 to open the dev console and change the text on the website so it says "Owned by Kinesin".  I can do that, but the change would only be made in a superficial manner, visible only on my own computer.

You're stuck in a serious trap of viewing enlightenment and 'levels of consciousness' in terms of trippy mindstates and cheap magic tricks, and you have no idea just how much it's holding you back to think that way.

[fopylo]

@Leo Gura

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Be careful not to create a shadow out of the mind.

Self-understanding is the highest of desires.

And be careful not to create a shadow out of desire.

Dude this is very hard, especially when most of the spiritual culture talks about disregarding desires and saying that it's the ego and that this and the mind are your enemies. You cannot not hear people saying that those lower desires are bad (mostly in an indirect way). It's enough that you say that something is bullshit or stupid that newbies (like myself) will easily create a shadow of it, which just makes their work even harder. I can tell you for certain that a lot of my work has gone just to deconstruct those notions about spirituality so that I can start pursuing real spirituality

[fopylo]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, but that's not what is being considered in my question. The question is how to change the physical flow of material reality.

For example, I once was so conscious I could almost reach a point where I could turn on and off the lights in my room using my mind. But I still was not conscious enough.

According to my theory, if you become conscious enough you should be able to send an email to anyone in the world using your mind. The only thing stopping it is your lack of consciousness.

@Leo Gura If you know any human in the world that can do such things then it makes more sense what you're saying. I'm so far from these levels but still, if there is no one to be known of having achieved this the what you're saying is your own personal speculation since you don't know for sure. And maybe you might be the first one to discover. But surely there are people who are like 10 fold more conscious than you are (who started very early and took it extremely serious)

[BipolarGrowth]

47 minutes ago, The0Self said:

@BipolarGrowth I'm not big on jhanas anymore either. Just saying the 4th jhana can be used for powers. Many have said that, not just Rob Burbea. Daniel Ingram and many others have said this as well. And they agree, jhanas and powers have nothing to do with awakening (empty fullness seen by no one).

I’m sorry but they have no idea what they are talking about. Their powers must be some flaccid instruments or something because mine can take me fucking way beyond so much of my earlier psychedelic or meditative awakenings. They do not understand how meaning and concepts weave into the fabric of Existence while they ironically have all used them endlessly for their own purposes to awaken. This is just a higher degree. Powers give you immense meaning to play with. Whatever awakening they’re referring to is likely not high-tier. You might say that the bigger an attachment is that is dropped gives that much more force towards awakening. For an attachment to be large, it must have meaning. Thus, add more to your meaning and intensity of life, then detach from it into No-Self to take things really deep. 

[Salvijus]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It is possible to develop some meditation muscle slowly over years, but more than likely such weak sauce will not get you to radical mystical consciousness. 

Weak sauce is good enough. Rising 1inch of awareness everyday will add up to something profound in the long term. 

The main point is to achieve permenant present moment awareness. Then you enter into a effortless 24h nonstop growth of consciousness.

I don't know what you mean by mystical tho. But for self-realization, for becoming established in a permenant primordial awareness and even for discovery of Love state I would say, 1h a day is enough. 

It's the same with everything in life. When you want to become a master musician you don't have to focus like a motherfucker. You train your music sensitivity, sense of rythm, hearing abilities etc. Little by little you do. One day you become a master musician.

At first you have to focus like a motherfucker to hear if something is out of tune or not but later when you improve you don't have to focus at all. You just hear everything effortlessly, you become so sensitive, the moment something is out of tune, you know it.

It's like that with meditation really. When I first started to meditate I would have to focus like a motherfucker to feel the presence of the present moment. And now it's just there all the time even when I'm typing this message. And I didn't do any retreats (except vipassana twice) nor did I become a monk.

That's what rising baseline means. It's not something you get during an intense retreat and then lose it. Once you raise it you can't lose it. Once a musician reaches a certain of music sensitivity or hearing abilities or sense of rythm, he can no longer lose it. It's just there, an effortless ability to discern sounds becomes part of him. He has embodied these abilities you can say.

Same way once you reach mindfulness levels where you can feel your thoughts and feelings you can't lose this ability anymore. With time as mindfulness and discernment rises more and more subtler and subtler thoughts and feelings come into your awareness. Time comes when even before the subtlest intentiont arise you are already there to perceive it. Then you're in a boundless space of primordial awareness. And you can't lose it. Nor do you have to try to keep it. It's just there. Part of everything that you do.

All this comes with daily practice not with brute force. You can't brute force yourself into becoming more sensitive in mindfulness or music. It takes time. Little by little you improve everyday until you become more aware and sensitive. Of cource pushing yourself very hard from time to time can be helpful also.

I hope you at least consider this what I wrote before totally dissmising it

Regards and good luck to you? @Leo Gura

Edited May 22, 2021 by Salvijus

[Inliytened1]

7 hours ago, fopylo said:

@Leo Gura If you know any human in the world that can do such things then it makes more sense what you're saying. 

In order for one to manipulate material reality they already have to be conscious enough to realize any other human in the world doing such things would also be their imagination.  This goes very deep - and must be Total.   It would take extremely radical levels of consciousness- to the point where if you could do it at all - at that point it would lose all meaning....it would be like going into developer mode on your personal video game and then going back into the game as the player.  So it would mean nothing other than an entertaining experiment.  You would then need to fool yourself via imagination once back as the player and forget you modified the game as the game master. 

Of course  Leo is already at the level where he is conscious on an Absolute level that this is just his own playground so it would probably work out great.

.

[BipolarGrowth]

39 minutes ago, kinesin said:

If you believe another person would actually *recieve* that email, then that's nothing more than a drug-induced delusion.  There is a grain of truth to such beliefs - everything you see and feel around you right now is a simulated 3D construct being put together within your own mind.  It is possible to access states where it is possible to change that construct as you see fit, as if controlling a dream.  You could make it so that the walls move around you, you could create a doorway where one doesn't exist, you could bend a spoon with your will alone... but the thing you don't seem to realize is it's just a hollow mind trick.  When you cause your mind-simulation of the spoon to bend, you'll say "look, it's bending!" but anyone sitting next to you would just think you were crazy because in material reality, nothing would be changing.  It's a bit like how I can go to the Actualized.org front page right now and press F12 to open the dev console and change the text on the website so it says "Owned by Kinesin".  I can do that, but the change would only be made in a superficial manner, visible only on my own computer.

You're stuck in a serious trap of viewing enlightenment and 'levels of consciousness' in terms of trippy mindstates and cheap magic tricks, and you have no idea just how much it's holding you back to think that way.

He replied, "You of little faith, why are you so afraid?" Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm.

If you had gone far enough, you would see where the path leads. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by BipolarGrowth

[machiavelli]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, but that's not what is being considered in my question. The question is how to change the physical flow of material reality.

For example, I once was so conscious I could almost reach a point where I could turn on and off the lights in my room using my mind. But I still was not conscious enough.

According to my theory, if you become conscious enough you should be able to send an email to anyone in the world using your mind. The only thing stopping it is your lack of consciousness.

@Leo Gura Can you tell me if it is possible for anybody to turn ON/OFF lights using meditation or doing yoga? You say meditation and yoga is nothing as compared to states we reach on psychedelics. Even if we do serious contemplation and yoga for decades. 

And also dont you feel the states you are talking about is extremely hard to reach. Is there any person who have reached such states of consciousness and done serious stuff that bend all laws of nature? Had he done it using meditation or Yoga?

Can he sustain that consciousness state while being sober ?

 

[kinesin]

@BipolarGrowth  Who am I to tell you what you should or shouldn't believe - do what makes you happy I suppose.  It is simply wrong, however, and I won't be taking part in any such delusion.

I will say though, that once you get further down the path, seeking to cause such changes in material reality starts to seem very childish.  Deeper insight completely negates any sense in doing such things - it's like if you had a lucid dream and decided to spend the time learning a new language, only to wake up and realise it was nothing but gibberish.

[dlof]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Meh, most such people aren't gonna be powerful enough to perform miracles.

I think the real key is having insane levels of consciousness -- beyond even what most psychedelics allow. I just don't know how it can be sustained.

It's not "that" hard to influence reality using occult means and plenty of black magicians are able to perform supernatural feats without the need of a high degree of consciousness. But there's kind of a negative feedback loop for these people so they end up destroying themselves over time and effectively become slaves to higher power dark entities. A mainstream example of this would be EA Koetting, he's managed to pull off a few supernatural things but his lack of morality will eventually come to bite him in the ass in this life, the afterlife or subsequent lives.

But it's really the people you don't hear about who have the real power, however they don't make a big show out of it.

John Chang is able to pretty easily perform supernatural feats using Mo Pai as is shown in the short documentary about him, he shuns the camera though and hasn't been seen for many years since. He meditates a lot in solitude, for years on end even. But the techniques of Mo Pai can ironically be summarized as accumulating a tonne of energy in your gooch (perenium) and then projecting it outwards. The meditation I assume is so you don't go crazy which is pretty easy if you go deep into the occult.

If you only spent a couple of hours a day doing practices in Franz Bardon's Initation into Hermetics for say 3 years, you should be able to pull of some pretty intense reality warping stuff.

DMT seems to blow people out of their bodies and they experience all this amazing transcendental stuff which hopefully manages to make an impression on the mental body, but then you're back in your physical body with it's limitations. You remember some abstract concepts but you're still a very limited being. But if you have mastery over the lower levels, the astral and etheric bodies, then you'd be able to truly transmit higher level energies into this physical dimension and perform high level miracles. If a DMT being were to manifest in your room right now, not only would they probably take out the power-grid, they would be condensing themselves down the planes and accumulating a shit-tonne of astral and etheric energy to do so. You can do this on a small scale, but you'd need to actually start mastering the etheric and astral bodies, not just the mental and spiritual.

[BipolarGrowth]

1 hour ago, kinesin said:

@BipolarGrowth  Who am I to tell you what you should or shouldn't believe - do what makes you happy I suppose.  It is simply wrong, however, and I won't be taking part in any such delusion.

I will say though, that once you get further down the path, seeking to cause such changes in material reality starts to seem very childish.  Deeper insight completely negates any sense in doing such things - it's like if you had a lucid dream and decided to spend the time learning a new language, only to wake up and realise it was nothing but gibberish.

This does not mean it is not possible though. I  agree that inward experiences can be far more valuable. 

[DnoReally]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You could meditate for 1 hour per day for 40 years and never reach enlightenment. But if you combined all those hours into a single block that is 2 weeks long, you are way more likely to reach enlightenment.

Wrong! Sadhguru said enlightenment is like a fruit that slowly ripens. Yes or no?