What's The Deal With Vegan/vegetarian?

[PetarKa]

Why is it better (or worse) to go vegan/vegetarian? What's the problem with diary products and also what's the problem with meat? Lastly, what kind of diets do you have - vegan/not?

Edited November 4, 2016 by PetarKa

[Elton]

@PetarKa recently I came across an author I didn't read his book but I've seen some of his vedios the name of his book is how to not die, he emphasises on hoe meat and dairy products can cause cancer and its worse then smoking. 

[JKG]

5 hours ago, Elton said:

@PetarKa recently I came across an author I didn't read his book but I've seen some of his vedios the name of his book is how to not die, he emphasises on hoe meat and dairy products can cause cancer and its worse then smoking. 

You mean Dr. Greger

https://www.youtube.com/user/NutritionFactsOrg/videos

[Elton]

@quantum yes

 

[Pramit]

On 11/4/2016 at 0:03 AM, PetarKa said:

Why is it better (or worse) to go vegan/vegetarian? What's the problem with diary products and also what's the problem with meat? Lastly, what kind of diets do you have - vegan/not?

vegan causes less harm to the environment. If you eat beef, you support growing cows. The emissions from beef are about 10% of worldwide global warming. Even replacing beef with chicken, you are reducing your carbon footprint by up to 75% depending on how much beef you consume. Cattle requires large amounts of land, and produce methane gas which traps 20 times more heat than CO2. Chicken require 1/4 of that land and produce much less methane. It is ideal if you do not consume meat altogether, but its also unrealistic for most people i guess.

 

From a health perspective, moderate amounts of meat is good for your health. Too much may cause cardiovascular issues. You should make sure that meat is properly cooked. That is all i know. 

[pluto]

well.. this pretty much explains a lot

From my personal experience I've never felt better, sharper, smarter, calmer and more energy, no more joint or bone or bodily pains after consuming mostly Plant-based. The Key is more whole foods and less processed junk. Dr Andreas Mortiz had some good videos on this subject as well.

Pair with exercise, sunlight, hydration, fresh air and rest = Thrive!

Edited November 7, 2016 by pluto

[Tancrede Pouyat]

The whole vegan movement is just a neurotic overreaction against american beef overproduction habits. 

I know that lots of people report better health but that's because we get more results from not eating really shitty foods rather than eating healthy foods. Eliminating processed foods generally happens when you go vegan, hence all the results. 

Too low a protein intake will kill you, your metabolism needs it. Too high a protein intake will also kill you too, these studies have a point. Also, getting all your protein from one source will kill you because you need an amino acid balance (bone broth is most certainly one of the best ways to get protein).

You can be vegan if you want, just make sure you get enough protein, and from various sources (hemp has a really rich amino acid profile, check it out). Also, make sure you don't eat grains, they're really unhealthy. 

Animal protein is still of higher quality, we evolved to eat meat, fish, fowl, and poultry. 

Oh, and also, about dairy. More people than you'd think are lactose intolerant, but if you're not, you can have it. Just make sure you get the most natural and least processed dairy as you can, this is where you get the most nutrition. I personally don't like dairy, so I just don't eat it. 

[vizual]

3 hours ago, Tancrede Pouyat said:

The whole vegan movement is just a neurotic overreaction against american beef overproduction habits. 

I know that lots of people report better health but that's because we get more results from not eating really shitty foods rather than eating healthy foods. Eliminating processed foods generally happens when you go vegan, hence all the results. 

Too low a protein intake will kill you, your metabolism needs it. Too high a protein intake will also kill you too, these studies have a point. Also, getting all your protein from one source will kill you because you need an amino acid balance (bone broth is most certainly one of the best ways to get protein).

You can be vegan if you want, just make sure you get enough protein, and from various sources (hemp has a really rich amino acid profile, check it out). Also, make sure you don't eat grains, they're really unhealthy. 

Animal protein is still of higher quality, we evolved to eat meat, fish, fowl, and poultry. 

Oh, and also, about dairy. More people than you'd think are lactose intolerant, but if you're not, you can have it. Just make sure you get the most natural and least processed dairy as you can, this is where you get the most nutrition. I personally don't like dairy, so I just don't eat it. 

Why then has there never been a recorded case of a person dying - or even being sick - from protein deficiency? Regardless of being vegan or not. The only thing people die of, pr get sick, is calorie deficiency, aka starvation.

You gave yourself way of not knowing much about nutrition when you mentioned bone broth as a good protein source. The protein in bone broth is gelatin which is not a complete protein and can't be used in the human body.

[Schulzy]

You should do the research and come up with your own conclusion. Take into account all possible reasons: enviroment, health, morality. 

[Nahm]

Know why when you observe the grand unified field electrons collapse from waves into particles? Know why when 10 people witness a crime or an accident, they have 10 different versions of what happened? Know why you remember your first kiss very differently than you experienced it at the time? Because this whole thing is your consciousness. The whole universe is you PetarKa. All of it and not a particle less. (Pun intended).  Food is no exception. Why can someone eat red meat on the daily, smoke cigars, bang anything with two ears and still live to be 90 while someone else can maintain a healthy lifestyle and croak midlife? Look around you right now. See all that. It's consciousness. It's thought, within thought, within thought- carried on for infinity. No end. It is your thoughts about food that matter. Your beliefs matter. Your connection and alignment to your universe within matter. But, and here's the catch....you have to listen to it. If it says "PetarKa, bro, get us up at 4am and excercise and meditate", then you have to listen. If your inner self says "Petarka, my good man, don't eat that cheese burger. You know you'll be feelin slow tomorrow and for you bro, feelin slow just doesn't cut it anymore". You got to listen. You want more. You asked for more. The universe is always listening. It is always guiding you. It ALWAYS gives you what you are asking for. You just have to allow it in to your life. You got's ta listen to it! You think it's bad to slit a cow's neck, chop it up into pieces, roast it and chow it down? Then don't. Does it feel good to you to make a vegan protein shake and a salad and much out on strawberries? The rock it. But don't forget that there is no objective reality. We are each our reality. Your food questions are answered by the beliefs you hold in the food category.  Let them go. Align. What unfolds over time will blow your mind. Keep rockin Petarka! 

[Live Life Liam]

On 11/9/2016 at 8:03 AM, Tancrede Pouyat said:

The whole vegan movement is just a neurotic overreaction against american beef overproduction habits. 

I know that lots of people report better health but that's because we get more results from not eating really shitty foods rather than eating healthy foods. Eliminating processed foods generally happens when you go vegan, hence all the results. 

Too low a protein intake will kill you, your metabolism needs it. Too high a protein intake will also kill you too, these studies have a point. Also, getting all your protein from one source will kill you because you need an amino acid balance (bone broth is most certainly one of the best ways to get protein).

You can be vegan if you want, just make sure you get enough protein, and from various sources (hemp has a really rich amino acid profile, check it out). Also, make sure you don't eat grains, they're really unhealthy. 

Animal protein is still of higher quality, we evolved to eat meat, fish, fowl, and poultry. 

Oh, and also, about dairy. More people than you'd think are lactose intolerant, but if you're not, you can have it. Just make sure you get the most natural and least processed dairy as you can, this is where you get the most nutrition. I personally don't like dairy, so I just don't eat it. 

Your stuck in a lot of Western and societal myths about protein, veganism, human biology and meat, fish and dairy. I'm not saying your completely wrong just that you shouldn't suddenly begin dismissing an entire movement as neurotic simply because you do not follow the path yourself. 

The problem with these nutrition related issues is like almost every other field there is so much opposing contradicting science and information out there so it's hard to find out what really is a healthy way to eat as propaganda is rampant. 

Just try to keep an open mind though and research into these matters more and look at both sides of the arguement.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Live Life Liam

[Tancrede Pouyat]

9 hours ago, Live Life Liam said:

simply because you do not follow the path yourself.

I didn't say that I'm not vegan.

9 hours ago, Live Life Liam said:

dismissing an entire movement

I'm not dismissing the vegan movement.

9 hours ago, Live Life Liam said:

as neurotic

There's a difference between calling a movement neurotic and dismissing it.

9 hours ago, Live Life Liam said:

Your

*You're. And you made that mistake twice.

9 hours ago, Live Life Liam said:

there is so much opposing contradicting science and information out there

Sounds like you don't understand false dichotomies. Too much protein kills you, too little protein kills you, that means there's a balance to be found ! It's not contradicting.

9 hours ago, Live Life Liam said:

look at both sides of the arguement.

I have. And I've concluded that a balanced intake of protein, from various sources (including joint and bone protein because it has glycine and you need it to counter methionine's carcinogenic properties), and also I don't eat that much (only 1 serving of lean muscle and 1 serving of bone protein per day, that gives me about 40-60g, which is 0.5 g/lb lean mass for me. It's very low compared to the overly high intake of bodybuilders).

EDIT : Anyways, I don't like to argue with people. I completely respect your perspective, as I know all perspectives are partial. Maybe the vegan movement can teach me a thing or two.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Tancrede Pouyat

[Pramit]

On 11/9/2016 at 5:13 PM, vizual said:

Why then has there never been a recorded case of a person dying - or even being sick - from protein deficiency?

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=protein+deficiency+diseases

Edited December 5, 2016 by Pramit

[vizual]

On 5-12-2016 at 1:34 PM, Pramit said:

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=protein+deficiency+diseases

There has never been a protein deficiency disease detected at a person with adequate caloric consumption. Protein deficiency symptoms occur at people who are starving. 

[Pramit]

1 hour ago, vizual said:

There has never been a protein deficiency disease detected at a person with adequate caloric consumption. Protein deficiency symptoms occur at people who are starving. 

No, they occur when the body does not receive enough proteins that it can convert to amino acids which are the building blocks of new proteins. 

[vizual]

4 hours ago, Pramit said:

No, they occur when the body does not receive enough proteins that it can convert to amino acids which are the building blocks of new proteins. 

What I am getting at is that it is virtually impossible to get an inadequate protein intake provided that the person consumes sufficient calories. Even die hard raw fruitarians, whether they seem to have certain deficiencies or not, do not show any signs of protein deficiency diseases. Again, if they consume the needed total calories the body requires to sustain a healthy body weight.

Of course the body needs amino acids to thrive, it just does not need animal protein for it to do so. And the amount of protein people think they need is vastly overestimated. 

[Peace and Love]

Just thought I would share this with you guys if you haven't seen some of this info. 


List of vegan athletes

http://www.greatveganathletes.com/patrik-baboumian-vegan-strongman

Patrik Baboumian-  Germany's Strongest man

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/06/health/vegan-strongman-patrik-baboumian-germany-diet/

 

Some good books to read too are-  The China Study  by T. Colin Campbell   and The 80/10/10 diet by Dr. Douglas Graham



 

 

[stevegan928]

On 11/9/2016 at 1:03 AM, Tancrede Pouyat said:

Animal protein is still of higher quality, we evolved to eat meat, fish, fowl, and poultry. 

other than cholesterol (which is bad for you no matter how little you intake) what can you get from meat that you can't get from plant proteins?  

[stevegan928]

On 11/9/2016 at 1:03 AM, Tancrede Pouyat said:

The whole vegan movement is just a neurotic overreaction against american beef overproduction habits. 

the movement as a whole is neurotic for the most part but you cannot deny the environmental issues associated with the meat and dairy industry. the world would be better if western society went vegan or insectivore. in fact the human race will be done for if the shift doesn't happen in the next 100 years. 

[Peace and Love]

@vizual @Pramit

Some good books to read too are-  The China Study  by T. Colin Campbell   and The 80/10/10 diet by Dr. Douglas Graham

80/10/10 Book

pg 104 -

10% Protein Includes a Wide Safety Margin
The national and international organizations that set nutrient guidelines build into their numbers a margin of safety that increases the recommendations substantially, often near double.  The 1989 U.S. RDA for protein of 0.8 g/kg/day, for example, was designed to meet the needs of 97.5% of a normally distributed  population.  It was calculated as follows:

- Conduct nitrogen balance studies to determine the mean amount of protein required to replace daily "obligatory losses" through sweat, urine, feces, and sloughed skin, hair and nails.

- Add two standard deviations (25%) of this mean value

- Add margins for digestibility and protein quality.

In his book The China Study, renowned Cornell University professor emeritus of nutritional biochemistry T. Colin Campbell states that we require only 5-6% of our total calories to come from protein in order to replace the protein we routinely lose, and that "About 9-10% protein has been recommended for the past fifty years to be assured that most people at least get their 5-6% requirement.

In addition to the safety margin, this recommendation assumes that people eat their protein cooked.  Given that cooking substantially deranges protein and other nutrients, we can safely consume far less raw plant protein and still be assured of sufficient nourishment.  Thus, you can see that 10% protein (maximum) is both sufficient and reasonable.

The additional protein afforded by the built-in safety factory is not a problem, per se, except that over consumption of protein can lead to health problems, which will be discussed later in this chapter.

The fact that our protein needs actually run in the single digits (under 10%) often surprises people.  Most all of us have unwittingly fallen prey to meat industry propaganda that would lead us to believe otherwise.  Truly, advertising has influenced our perception of reality so widely that the concept of "getting enough protein" is embedded in our culture.


..... If you need me to, I have info in this book about body building.

pg 106
All Plant Foods Contain Protein

Consuming approximately 5% of calories from protein is difficult to avoid if you are eating enough food to meet your daily calorie needs.  All plant foods contain protein, and even if you ate a diet only white rice, which is not recommended, you would still end up with 8% protein for the day.  But would it be the "right kind" of protein?

Proteins are complicated molecules made by assembling simple building blocks (amino acids) together in a "poly-peptide" chain.  Some 20 different amino acids are used to synthesize proteins, eight or nine of which are designated essential (depending upon whose information you read),  The term "essential" in nutrition means that the nutrient in question must be eaten otherwise consumed, as the body cannot synthesize it.

The Complete Protein Myth
In the 1970's, people often concerned themselves with combining proteins so that all of the essential acids were available at each meal.  Later research has determined that this is not necessary, and in fact the author of the "incomplete protein theory" Frances Moore Lappe, recanted 20 years later, saying that she was utterly mistaken.  We do need all of the essential amino acids, but we do not have to eat them together, or even each day,


pg 107

Sources of Protein
Dietary protein is not the only source for building the proteins we need.  Instead, our bodies efficiently recycle between 100-300 grams of our own protein each day.  We have an amino acid pool from which to build new proteins.  We add amino acids to the pool by breaking down the proteins we eat and the proteins in our bodies.

We can easily meet our protein requirements on a vegan diet, with no particular attention focused on combining proteins or selecting certain foods for each meal. 

examples
apricots = 10% protein
Cucumbers = 11% protein
Asparagus = 27% protein
Green leaf/ lettuce = 22% protein
Oranges = 7% protein

....There is so much information in this book it is crazy,  I'm only listing stuff that I think is the most important.