What's The Deal With Vegan/vegetarian?

[Peace and Love]

Pg 110  - 80/10/10 book by Dr. Douglas Graham
The Dangers of Eating More than 10% Protein


To listen to the proponents of the meat industry, one would think we are in imminent danger of disease and death if we fail to eat meat three times a day.  The truth is that eating meat this often causes the very conditions we're taught to fear.  This is a surprise to most people, who have been taught incorrectly, that they need large amounts of protein to be healthly.  Actually, the reverse is true; Most people suffer from an over dose of protein each day, and this accounts for a great deal of our ill health.

To much protein in our diets is associated with all manner of health impairments, including such symptoms as constipation and other digestive disorders that often lead to anemia (toxic blood and tissues) and, eventually cancer.  Autoimmune dysfunction, arthritis, and all other autoimmune conditions, premature aging, impaired liver function, kidney failure, osteoporosis, and many other degenerative and pathogenic conditions result from eating more protein than we need.

In general, protein based foods are highly acid forming in the human body (even the high protein plants, such as legumes) this is because their predominant minerals are the acidic minerals- chlorine, phosphorus, and sulfur.  To maintain homeostasis, the body must counterbalance the acidity caused by excess protein consumption.  Unfortunately, it does so in part by taking a precious alkaline mineral, calcium, from our bloodstream.  The body replaces calcium into the bloodstream, where calcium levels must remain relatively constant, by removing it from our bones and teeth, setting the stage for osteoporosis and tooth decay.

It is no coincidence that fruits and vegetables contain just the right amounts of proteins to build and maintain the human body.  Nor is it a coincidence that the minerals they supply are predominantly the alkaline ones: calcium, sodium, magnesium, and potassium.


Just thought I would share this too.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Peace and Love
grammar- forgot to add something! ;)

[vizual]

@Peace and Love  Yes, I read those books. I don't think Douglas Graham is a real scientist(or doctor for that matter, I may be wrong). I like the T. Colin Campbell book even though he does cherrypick some favorable data to support his claims. But then again, every scientist writing a book does this.

[pluto]

The less you consume the more enlightened you become

In he fasted state, the body is clean and the mind is pure.

I highly recommend everyone doing a water fast with proper guidance from a book or someone with experience. It will change the way you understand the human body forever. Then when you are "reset" so to speak, you will start to notice what works for you and what doesn't.

 

[Tancrede Pouyat]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acid

[Martin123]

On 9. 11. 2016 at 8:03 AM, Tancrede Pouyat said:

The whole vegan movement is just a neurotic overreaction against american beef overproduction habits. 

I know that lots of people report better health but that's because we get more results from not eating really shitty foods rather than eating healthy foods. Eliminating processed foods generally happens when you go vegan, hence all the results. 

Too low a protein intake will kill you, your metabolism needs it. Too high a protein intake will also kill you too, these studies have a point. Also, getting all your protein from one source will kill you because you need an amino acid balance (bone broth is most certainly one of the best ways to get protein).

You can be vegan if you want, just make sure you get enough protein, and from various sources (hemp has a really rich amino acid profile, check it out). Also, make sure you don't eat grains, they're really unhealthy. 

Animal protein is still of higher quality, we evolved to eat meat, fish, fowl, and poultry. 

Oh, and also, about dairy. More people than you'd think are lactose intolerant, but if you're not, you can have it. Just make sure you get the most natural and least processed dairy as you can, this is where you get the most nutrition. I personally don't like dairy, so I just don't eat it. 

You completely dismiss the compassion factor in this. Something for you to look into man.

[Tancrede Pouyat]

@Martin123 I agree with you, compassion is huge ! It's super important. But, I don't know it's kinda hard to do when it comes to the most primal of all activities. 

[Flare]

@Peace and Love Bringing up athletes in a vegan topic has no evidence. They have the time to eat properly. They can spend 6 hours+ a day on their diet. "Normal" people with a different job can't. 

In addition I would highly doubt that more than 10% protein are actually bad. The statement can not be right because your need for protein is based on you activities. In addition to this just quoting a book, doesn't give any evidence. I rather would like to  see the studies etc. here not the opinion from a doctor who could be researching based on  confirmation bias.

It's proven that low protein meals actually make you more hungry than high protein meals do. So if you wanna cut carbs - pls eat at least 30% protein.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Flare

[Martin123]

@Tancrede Pouyat When you experience inconditional love for existence, "primal activities" will be put into context. But don't worry about it. It is part of the journey. Just remember to keep an open mind.

[Peace and Love]

@Flare

On 12/15/2016 at 4:43 PM, Flare said:

@Peace and Love Bringing up athletes in a vegan topic has no evidence. They have the time to eat properly. They can spend 6 hours+ a day on their diet. "Normal" people with a different job can't. 

In addition I would highly doubt that more than 10% protein are actually bad. The statement can not be right because your need for protein is based on you activities. In addition to this just quoting a book, doesn't give any evidence. I rather would like to  see the studies etc. here not the opinion from a doctor who could be researching based on  confirmation bias.

It's proven that low protein meals actually make you more hungry than high protein meals do. So if you wanna cut carbs - pls eat at least 30% protein.

I am not attacking you by any means and I'm only sharing this information out of LOVE.   I support you on your journey and where ever your intuition guides you.

  The comments above mine mentioned building muscle...body builders build muscle.....  So I showed that a vegan can build muscle as well and you don't need animal protein to do it.   The strongest man in Germany is Vegan.  And he states in his video that you don't have to eat animal protein to be strong or healthy. So I was also answering the question of "What's the deal with being vegan/vegetarian"

Telling yourself "you can't do something" isn't good either,  it's not good for our subconscious mind.   You don't have to be a body builder to be healthy....and even a sense be vegan.  You can just simply work out an hour a day, or every other day and still be healthy.  And if you really want something that badly, and especially if it's apart of your life purpose you will find a way.  I was simply showing an example to prove a point.

The book goes on to say that  body builders don't need more protein to work out, and that the average person on the American standard diet has been shown statistic wise that they are not even on a high protein diet, even though they falsely believe that they are!!

Sorry I completely disagree with you on this one...and that's ok.  We are all here to learn and are on a journey to expand our consciousness and that's what I love about this forum.  We don't have to agree with everyone, but we can still share what we know or perceive to be true and still feel comfortable, safe and supported and come from a place of LOVE.

If I eat more than 30% protein I'll be in trouble...I'd be very VERY SICK ....lol....I'm RAW VEGAN, not by choice but by my health reasons. (If I could eat pizza every day and be ninja turtle I would do it!!  I love candy, I love cheese, I love POTATO CHIPS!!! lol)  I'm allergic to more things than the average person (gluten, dairy, peanuts, eggs, soy, table salt, sugar, bht,.....the list goes on)  And I've tried high protein diets...the vegan and non-vegan kind....I get straight out panic attacks, blacking out from the protein every time.  I almost pass out on the floor, get uncontrollable diarrhea, get urinary tract infections....ummm just no flat out NO for me! lol However when I eat a ton of fruit and especially big leafy green salads I have so much energy I don't know what to do with it.  I've literally run for an hour straight with out stopping and without getting tired.  If I was on a regular diet,...even considered healthy with animal protein, I would still be very sick.  But...hey...maybe I've just got a weird body type and everybody needs something different, which is true.  No two bodies are the same.  We all have our own nutritional needs. We can get blood tests now so that can have our very own custom made nutritional supplements.

I go by what the books say, and they have worked out great for me.  My sacred truth tells me to steer clear of protein and stay on the vegan path after years of misdiagnoses from doctors that have absolutely no knowledge of diet and nutrition, and being over medicated which did not fix anything but cover up my health problems. When I took charge of my health, and ate raw vegan, I literally reversed all of my health problems, including my endometriosis and ovarian cysts, and hypothyroidism, and panic attacks.

But I will agree with you on this,  we NEED discernment when it comes to what we read and what we hear.  We can't believe everything a doctor says or even sadly what statistics say.  Even statistics can unfortunately be altered and warped to prove something to be true and  sway audiences.  We need to find our TRUTH.

 

[Radical Honesty]

@Live Life Liam The nutrition industry is a joke. Most conclusions made in nutrition 'science' are based on correlations and therefore they cannot tell you anything of meaning about whats healthy and what isn't.

Moreover, most studies are funded by organisations who sell supplements.  

[Radical Honesty]

@Peace and Love Be careful believing what Dr. Douglas Graham tells you.  Have a look into the studies/evidence he gives and you'll find the conclusions he makes from it are invalid.

Don't believe everything you read--especially as you probably select your reading material based on if it supports your believes (confirmation bias).

There isn't enough evidence to show that a vegan/vegetarian diet is healthier than one with meat. However, there isn't enough evidence to show the converse. Therefore, stop trying to convert people based on health reasons.   

Most people understand that eating meat causes unnecessary suffering--yet think that it's too difficult to stop.  Focus on converting them based on:

1) They can stop unnecessary suffering

and

2) It's not that much effort

[Live Life Liam]

1 hour ago, Radical Honesty said:

@Live Life Liam The nutrition industry is a joke. Most conclusions made in nutrition 'science' are based on correlations and therefore they cannot tell you anything of meaning about whats healthy and what isn't.

Moreover, most studies are funded by organisations who sell supplements.  

I totally agree with you and that the problem with it. It is probably the most confused industry in the world as everyone has a different opinion on what the healthy "natural diet" is. For example, you will go to one person and they will say oh no stay away from carbs because they make you fat but the other say that carbs don't make you fat are very important for the body as your brain runs mostly on glucose so eat low fat high carb. The question is who is right? Are they both true in a way or both false?

For me personally you have to research into the nutrition and medical industry deeply to find the truth for this rather than blindly following doctors or nutritionists as you don't know what their agenda is. One thing for sure is that our typical western diet is very unhealthy and one of the major causes of hundreds of diseases in our times today. Question the things you have been raised to believe as the shocking thing you might discover is you have been brainwashed (this message isn't to anyone in particular). 

I think that @Radical Honesty has a good point on focusing on converting with showing you can stop unnecessary suffering and that its not that hard to do if you live in a developing country. I think the thing that will ultimately convert people to this lifestyle is the environmental damage we are causing especially with animal agriculture so either it stops or the human race becomes extinct. 

Edited December 19, 2016 by Live Life Liam

[Flare]

3 hours ago, Peace and Love said:

@Flare

The comments above mine mentioned building muscle...body builders build muscle.....  So I showed that a vegan can build muscle as well and you don't need animal protein to do it.   The strongest man in Germany is Vegan.  And he states in his video that you don't have to eat animal protein to be strong or healthy. So I was also answering the question of "What's the deal with being vegan/vegetarian"

 

Exactly that's the point dude. One dude is doing it. He has his a body only he has. He lives in a situation only he lives in. That example (sadly) only show that it's possible for certain types of people. Most fitness dudes have BS arguments - that's sad though. They're biased from their own way. 

If 100% pray on a ship that's sinking and only 10/100 survive, they're going to tell you that god saved them. So you'll think that you should be praying too next time. What you did not consider is the other 90/100 which also prayed. So the advice has no evidence and you're definitely biased by authority of the lucky ones. 

Bodybuilder are most likely going to add huge amounts of carbs which in fact is destroying your %. Looking on pure numbers there should still be big amounts of protein. + In addition as I said protein does sate you more in comparison to other types of calories. So in order to be able to hit a certain amount of calories they can't start eating tons of protein in a bulk.

BUT I totally agree with you here that everyone has to figure out his own nutrition. 

+ You should definitely skip any type of beef meal - at least. This is causing the most harm to our environment and every one can to this immediately!

Edited December 19, 2016 by Flare

[pluto]

This was a great video worth sharing

Also some other good information by the great Dr Andreas Mortiz R.I.P

some others..

https://www.youtube.com/user/NutritionFactsOrg

or http://nutritionfacts.org/ should have everything you need to know, peace

Edited December 20, 2016 by pluto

[Peace and Love]

On 12/19/2016 at 0:35 PM, Radical Honesty said:

@Peace and Love Be careful believing what Dr. Douglas Graham tells you.  Have a look into the studies/evidence he gives and you'll find the conclusions he makes from it are invalid.

Don't believe everything you read--especially as you probably select your reading material based on if it supports your believes (confirmation bias).

There isn't enough evidence to show that a vegan/vegetarian diet is healthier than one with meat. However, there isn't enough evidence to show the converse. Therefore, stop trying to convert people based on health reasons.   

Most people understand that eating meat causes unnecessary suffering--yet think that it's too difficult to stop.  Focus on converting them based on:

1) They can stop unnecessary suffering

and

2) It's not that much effort

I'm not trying to convert people to become vegan.  I'm just sharing information I have found on my journey.  I do not want to control anyone, or tell anyone what to do. We all have our own journey to take.  And we need to make our own personal  choices on what we choose to put in our mouths.  We are what we eat....... In fact if I could eat pizza and macaroni and cheese (non vegan foods) every day I would do it.   I miss eating my candy.  I miss eating steak and sea food.  But I can't eat it!  It makes me physically sick!!!  I'm just stating my health situation does not fit nor pertain to any medical advice or statistics. @Radical Honesty

[Peace and Love]

@Flare

On 12/19/2016 at 1:44 PM, Flare said:

Exactly that's the point dude. One dude is doing it. He has his a body only he has. He lives in a situation only he lives in. That example (sadly) only show that it's possible for certain types of people. Most fitness dudes have BS arguments - that's sad though. They're biased from their own way. 

If 100% pray on a ship that's sinking and only 10/100 survive, they're going to tell you that god saved them. So you'll think that you should be praying too next time. What you did not consider is the other 90/100 which also prayed. So the advice has no evidence and you're definitely biased by authority of the lucky ones. 

Bodybuilder are most likely going to add huge amounts of carbs which in fact is destroying your %. Looking on pure numbers there should still be big amounts of protein. + In addition as I said protein does sate you more in comparison to other types of calories. So in order to be able to hit a certain amount of calories they can't start eating tons of protein in a bulk.

BUT I totally agree with you here that everyone has to figure out his own nutrition. 

+ You should definitely skip any type of beef meal - at least. This is causing the most harm to our environment and every one can to this immediately!

Yeah Beef is definitely off my list...lol....I miss my "IN and OUT Burger" from California.  They were the best.  But from people that I have talked to that do vegan meat substitutions (even the beef ones) say they do taste pretty good. 

I'm definitely by no means a body builder- but what's so interesting is that you can achieve the "body builder" look eating animal protein and without as a vegan, if it is done properly.   And what's even scarier.....just because you're a body builder and you're working out ....it doesn't mean you're healthy either!  I met a body builder 5 years ago that had cancer!

Even as a RAW vegan, I have to watch my calories just as much as I would if I wasn't. Because I'm vegan it's a lot harder to get calories in for me because I have to eat allllllllot of fruit and salads to make up for what a small portion of protein on a non-vegan diet would.  It's a pain in the butt....but it does work.  And the fruit doesn't give me diabetes, like candy sugar would. Which is great.

lol...btw...I'm not a dude....but I'm glad the picture fooled ya! hehehe.  I guess the silly glasses with the big fake nose worked!

[pluto]

[Epiphany_Inspired]

@PetarKa When I saw this thread, my first reaction was "oh no"...lol... If you search the forum you will see that this is not the first time this has happened - Someone asks an innocent question about this, and it turns into a more intense debate. I have now learned that I have no desire to go back and forth on the subject, so this will be my only post, but please PM me if you want names of documentaries etc that will change your perceptions about meat and dairy forever!

As someone that was vegetarian most of my life, for me personally, right now: it's about health (limiting processed foods, etc), sustainability (is this food production reasonable long term),  ethics (how are the animals living, milked, etc, and how do they die), and additives (are there hormones, anti-biotics, formaldehydes, etc in it). We still consume dairy, but most of it comes from a friend's sustainable farm where the goats are really happy, etc. We don't eat red meat, but we do eat sustainable/ ethical local chicken, eggs, and fish. For me, it's making integral, compassionate choices where both my nutritional needs, and the needs of the planet are both kept in mind!

Edited February 21, 2017 by Epiphany_Inspired

[Truth Seekah]

 

Edited May 7, 2017 by Ganesh Sundaram