Major Discussion Of Actualized.org Teachings & The Future

[Leo Gura]

Edited: After some deeper reflection, I am modifying my original post be more open and accommodating.

This will be a master thread of sorts for dealing with the fallout of recent events, specifically focused on clarifying and discussing the nature of my work and Actualized.org as a whole.

This community and my followers are going to go through a self-sorting. Whatever grievances you have with my teachings, express it here.

If you believe my work has ever promoted suicide, you should leave this forum because you fundamentally misunderstand my work and we will not get along. If you have a problem with psychedelics, if you believe psychedelics are bad, wrong, dangerous, untruthful, and not genuine awakening, you should also leave this forum because we have a fundamental disagreement that I will not be arguing with you about. My work and research is deeply intertwined with psychedelics. If you don't like that, then simply find a community or teacher who does the classic path.

In general, feel free to vent whatever grievances you have with me personally, or with my work. Whatever you don't like or disagree with. Lay all your cards out on the table so that we clear the air. This is necessary to create a non-toxic community going forward which is not constantly at war with itself. The general rule is this: don't waste your time and energy on things you do not align with. Think carefully whether this community aligns with your values, and if it doesn't, just let it go and move on to things that align with you.

[Consept]

This is a comment I was going to leave on the other thread in response to Leo's reaction to video @kieranperez posted. It's directed at Leo but anyone who feels to respond feel free 

@LeoGura I thought the discussion was open and as @Forestluv said they came at with good faith. I do agree that they misunderstood some of your pointers and teachings, however they made valid points about some of the culture on the forum which has been brought up before in terms of turning non duality into an almost religious rhetoric. There's also this thing of giving a non-dual answer to a practical question, 'I want to start a business' - 'who is the I that wants to start a business?'.

I've always felt there's an over emphasis on psychedelics which again can turn into religion like rhetoric and yeah there is constant one upmanship on who's really enlightened etc. 

Most of these issues are what you'd get on forums so it's not necessarily your fault. I also don't think the video was really criticising your teachings, they didn't say you were wrong, it was more a critique on the culture being built around it. To be fair this is a very delicate balance, your teachings are advanced but I do feel they sometimes miss the human connection that say a mooji or sadhguru exude. I'm not saying you should be on that level, I think you offer something different which is important, but when it comes to seekers they can really be taken in by your ideas and also certainty about things, you can across as 'this is just how it is' and you may be right but I think it can have a negative affect on people who are not really ready yet. People dont realise you're on a journey too and unfortunately give all their sovereignty over to you. 

Anyway just some thoughts and it comes from love 

 

[Consilience]

One of my fundamental, perceived, disagreements is your dismissal of manual practices like meditation. Not that you dismiss them per-say, but that you significantly down play their effectiveness due to a personal lack of success and label the people who have serious success with them as “spiritually gifted.” Yet I do not believe that should warrant me leaving the forum or to stop watching your videos just because I perceive meditation differently than you.

In my view, the healthiest reaction would be for you to be open to the possibility that meditation, for example, is much more widely effective than the “spiritual genetics” argument claims and for me to be open to the possibility that most people will never have any hope of grounding high levels of God realization while sober.

Id appreciate the opportunity to share my views on this in the future though without being labeled as a contrarian and asked to leave. Ive been working on a series of posts which may fall into the categorization of contradicting your teachings. Not in the ultimate nature of truth, but in the accessibility of truth regarding states of consciousness.

Where does the line get drawn with too much contradiction? Having a community providing some level of criticism is healthy not only for you personally, but for the overall health of Actualized.org

[Danioover9000]

   I'll ask this now, and maybe I'll ask a better worded question later as it's late. How about those that are newbie to intermediate? I'm with you on most of the material covered here on actualized.org and videos, and on the highest teachings I still am even though it is challenging to stay open minded, I still stay humble about getting them and doing the inner work. Is there still a place for me here to visit from time to time? I'm not as defensive as I was in the past.

   Also wondering, for those with stronger disagreements, are they allowed to visit later in the future, if their current development doesn't let them be as open to the highest teachings? 

   Also a good time to ask about the future of the forum?

Edited May 21, 2021 by Danioover9000

[something_else]

@Leo Gura I'm remaining completely open to whatever spiritual teachings I come across, I simply don't have the experience to claim I know better.

The only point that keeps cropping up in my mind that I think is worth sharing here is on the nature of progression. It's undoutable that you did a lot of so called 'traditional' spiritual work regarding non-duality and no-self and so on before you started giving the God-realisation and Love teachings.

Do you think that for anyone else who also wishes to explore God-realisation and Love, these other steps are important grounding work before one can tackle more advanced teachings?

[ivankiss]

The work I'm doing on this forum is very important to me. I am committed to becoming a more conscious, wise and loving individual - for lack of a better term.

I have my disagreements, but I am willing to keep those thoughts to myself and simply continue doing my work in quite.

I strive to share deep, meaningful and heart-felt insights here - for the purpose of my own evolution and everyone else's.

I enjoy consuming your content Leo, from time to time. But I'm not a hardcore follower - to be honest. I see value in your teachings but I'm kinda more focused on my thing.

I just really like this forum. Hope you won't mind me sticking around for a bit longer.

[RMQualtrough]

I enjoy your talks as I believe the toad holds the key to reality. As such the most time I've spent with your speeches has been your reports after having used 5-MeO-DMT - often you will tear up or cry in these videos. Which reminds me of my DMT/LSD trip, when emotions after the fact are overwhelming and it is so strong it causes such a thing.

I'm very curious on a thing you said in your report after the 30 day 5-MeO thing.

When you said the universe would end, and discussed Mahasamadhi, I could not quite tell whether you were talking in a relative or absolute sense... That is, by "take everyone with you" etc. is that the relative sense? Like Yogis prior who went through with the act, they died and we are still here. You also spoke of final preparations... So did you expect relative experience would continue or all subjevtivity to cut out. Essentially from my relative experience I too would have died and ceased to exist?

I am also a bit confused about what is meant by Love. I heard you talk about it as understanding. Also though mention loving family etc which is something I associate with the emotion of love that we feel... Are you able to explain love in an "Explain Like I'm 5" manner?

Cheers!

Edited May 21, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[Megan Alecia]

I'd like to see more substance and less platitudes and ego games.

Maybe you could clarify what kind of culture/values does Actualized.org stand for. It all seems unclear and vague in actual fact.

You could create an echo chamber here and banish all critiques of your work, let's see how that turns out.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Megan Alecia
You'd end up with a bunch of hypnotized people filled with empty platitudes and illusions. Goodluck with that.

[Fadl]

[4201]

I don't think you've ever directly promoted suicide in any of your videos, but we have to admit that forum Leo is not the same as youtube Leo. You fell for fallacies that are very similar to what sent SoonHei off a bridge.

Source: 

 

This idea that you can be so conscious that harming the body doesn't matter is exactly what SoonHei believed and what lead him to die. If this current situation pisses you off, why not jump off a bridge? I think a video debunking this idea would be great IMO. The problem isn't really whether or not you think we should do it or whether or not you would actually do it, but the idea of it being idealized in some sort of high-consciousness only thing. If you are really high consciousness then you have no problem with the present moment and no reason to kill your body.

Edited May 21, 2021 by 4201

[Consept]

5 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Don't slander the organisation

I never said this was a cult or that Leo was or is trying to be a cult leader, but what you said there really sounds cultish 

On the real I like his work and i think he's doing important stuff but no one is above criticism. Leo has himself criticised many public figures and most likely if they saw it they would react the same but it doesn't mean his criticism wasn't valid, it's similar here, sometimes you can be so focused on your own work you miss the blindspots, if someone points them out they may not be 100% right but try and take what is valid and dont dwell on the misunderstandings 

[RendHeaven]

2 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Like Yogis prior who went through with the act, they died and we are still here.

Nope!

You gave that thought-story "realness" RIGHT NOW through sheer Imagination.

"I am Imagining and constructing RIGHT NOW the story that Yogis prior went through with Mahasamadhi, and that they died, and that I was unaffected, and this story feels like reality to me."

^This is (more in line with) what's actual.

When "you" "die" - and get blasted into Ultimate Infinity - the whole world goes with You, period.

As though the relative never even existed.

That is what it means to Be Absolute.

---

Of course, though, any of us on this forum speaking about these concepts now are still attached to this dream of life - many of us have briefly recognized the Absolute but are still largely hypnotized into imagining that the relative exists.

Insofar as we continue to imagine that the relative exists - it will appear as so.

I don't recommend getting too sucked into these words though. These words are bottomless and hollow. I am describing that which cannot be described when saying "The Absolute."

One day you will know when you Know. Until then, take it easy and enjoy the relativity

[Leo Gura]

46 minutes ago, sda said:

@Leo Gura I have a personal question from you. Do you percieve this thread as a feedback for you personally?  I mean will you consider people responses or is this thread purpose to filter them out?

Everything I read on this forum is feedback. But of course that doesn't mean I agree with it necessarily or that I will adopt it.

But yes, this thread is very much about feedback and I will certainly use the lessons here to make future decisions about how to best structure my teachings and how to deal with people in general.

This is not just a thread to cull people out who are critics.

I am open to criticism. That is nothing new to me. I get criticized every day. Any healthy community must be open to feedback and criticism. The issue here is that I see A LOT of people fundamentally misunderstanding my teachings. Either they don't watch the videos or they just got some twisted ideas about what is said. It is those misunderstandings that I want to squash.

My first responsibility is to make sure that my teachings are correctly understood and not misunderstood. So that's the purpose behind what I'm doing now. I see way to much misunderstanding and that frustrates me. But I'll deal with it.

[something_else]

9 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

 

 

 

 

Weirdly, this feels like it adds to the cult vibe. Anyone reading that is just gonna think this is more of a cult. The more someone tries to argue against it being a cult, the more it seems like one, just how it is.

Most of the defensive comments I've seen on videos criticising actualized.org have probably made the situation worse. There were some zingy one liners that do a better job, but you have to be careful with your wording and not come across as defensive if you're going to do this at all

Edited May 21, 2021 by something_else

[Leo Gura]

Also, guys, please... those of you who support my work, do not attack, harass, or aggressively defend me in public or on other channels, etc. Because people will just use that to further demonize and misunderstand what we do here. Be polite and not too aggressive. The way this PR game works it that the more you try to defend Actualized.org, the more people will call you a delusional cult member. So you have to be smart about the PR game here. This is not about truth anymore, this is all a PR game now. This is collective ego survival 101. So those who will be attacking and demonzing Actualized.org will not care about truth, they will care about validating their worldview. And in their worldview Actualized.org is, of course, very conveniently, a dangerous cult. That will always be the easiest, laziest angle of attack.

[Raptorsin7]

1 minute ago, something_else said:

Weirdly, this feels like it adds to the cult vibe. Anyone reading that is just gonna think this is more of a cult. The more someone tries to argue against it being a cult, the more it seems like one, just how it is.

Most of the defensive comments I've seen on videos criticising actualised.org have probably made the situation worse. There were some zingy one liners that do a better job, but you have to be careful with your wording and not come across as defensive if you're going to do this at all

This. Those kinds of comments do so much more harm than good haha

[Terell Kirby]

@Leo Gura thanks for doing this. In all honesty, I believe a good chunk of the forum participants are delusional and totally miss what is being said in your teachings. Most opinions expressed here are not original; they are simply regurgitations of points made in previous videos, or mental masturbation and useless debates. The hottest topics that get the most views and comments tend reek of nonsense...

This may be a controversial statement, but teachings like these are not for everybody. In a perfect world, you could pre-screen those who sign up for the forum, or even the general audience of Actualized.org to see if their minds are ripe for this level of insight into the nature of reality.

Of course, this is virtually impossible. I would consider possibly removing the forum component if things get too out of hand. A very few of us will really take this journey serious, and vast number of us will demonize, mis-interpret or use these teachings in an insanely harmful way.

Best of luck!

[The0Self]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Also, guys, please... those of you who support my work, do not attack, harass, or aggressively defend me in public or on other channels, etc. Because people will just use that to further demonize and misunderstand what we do here. Be polite and not too aggressive. The way this PR game works it that the more you try to defend Actualized.org, the more people will call you a delusional cult member. So you have to be smart about the PR game here. This is not about truth anymore, this is all a PR game now.

Exactly.

Be conscious of what is likely to come across as nothing more than defensiveness, and think twice before posting it.

[Leo Gura]

So what happens now is that there will be a lot of polarization, division, and fragmentation. Everyone is gonna be forced into a position of pointing fingers and taking sides. People won't be able to help themselves.

So just be mindful of that and try to not get dragged into the shitshow. Notice yourself getting dragged in. This is a good exercise for you in how politics works. It gets dirty real fast.

[AtheisticNonduality]