Major Discussion Of Actualized.org Teachings & The Future

[Dodo]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

1:34:30 "I am not immune from self deception"

I am very glad you say this.

I want to present to you something rather obvious that would contradict your realisation about  your parents being imaginary and this solipsistic view of reality. 

Rupert Spira has this simple question "Are you aware?" that he presents to people. When answered truthfully, everyone must respond "Yes" to this question, including your parents. We go on to investigate - what could be aware, other than awareness itself? 

So it appears awareness is aware-ing in multiple different packages / points of view. You as Leo's first person point of view is just one of many different packages. Your parents are other packaging of the same stuff.

Since this stuff, consciousness, is location-less and  property-less, we do not see it in others as we verify our own awareness in our own experience. We cannot verify that others are awareness, but they can and we can believe them. 

I certainly believe that you have a direct experience just as I do, even if I will never be aware of it directly. 

 

So saying your parents are imaginary is to say that they are not Awareness itself. But they are, because they are aware. 

 

[Leo Gura]

46 minutes ago, Dodo said:

1:04:00 you talk about Christianity , and how we can make anything dangerous when we misunderstand etc.. But in Christianity in particular there is a safeguard rail. It is very commonly known for Christians that if you commit suicide you won't be allowed in the kingdom of Heaven. Basically exactly what SoonHei was looking for with that jump - to find/ be in heaven itself.

If he believed a little bit that what Christianity is saying is relevant, it would have challenged his idea that jumping would get him quick access to that. He would probably be here if he had more of a Christian background and had this doubt about the suicide being "Good", because there is "nowhere else to go". 

About "Repent and you will be allowed in Heaven" being like a visa to do anything, it might appear like that, sure.. But I have had an insight about that one... How would one feel, when in Heaven, knowing that they don't deserve it... It would not be a good feeling and it would make heaven into a kind of hell, where you are like an undeserving dirt.

This is not a critique on your teachings, it is a critique of your critique of Christianity.

The mind will rationalize whatever it wants to do. It will also conveniently neglect things it even knows.

Maybe the 10 Commandments say that killing is wrong. But a foolish person will reason like this: "Killing babies is wrong. So I'm going to go kill that abortion doctor who kills babies because he is breaking the 10 Commandments!" And there will be no recognition at all that killing the doctor also breaks the 10 Commandments.

You assume the mind is going to be very rigorous and consider all sides of the issue but it will not. It will ignore obvious warnings and prohibitions.

You honestly think that SoonHei never heard it said that Truth is NOW, the present moment? He obviously knew what. His sister told me that he Eckhart Tolle quotes on his dreamboard and talked about many spiritual authors he's read. So obviously he knew that NOW is the place to be. But he ignored that for some fantasy of a future Mahasamadhi heaven.

When the mind gets stuck on some fantasy, it's logic becomes one-sided and anything can be justified in that way.

You think suicide bombers don't know it's wrong to kill civilians? They know it. But they get trapped in some other fantasy and ignore basic common sense.

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, Dodo said:

1:34:30 "I am not immune from self deception"

I am very glad you say this.

I have said this many times before.

Quote

I want to present to you something rather obvious that would contradict your realisation about  your parents being imaginary and this solipsistic view of reality. 

Rupert Spira has this simple question "Are you aware?" that he presents to people. When answered truthfully, everyone must respond "Yes" to this question, including your parents. We go on to investigate - what could be aware, other than awareness itself? 

What you're not aware of is that if you become more conscious than Rupert Spira you will realize he's not fully conscious that he is imaging all other minds, and that you are imaging him imaging other minds.

Like I have told you guys before, you are falling into the trap of taking these gurus on their word. You are not questioning Spira enough. You assume he has it figured out. And what I am telling you is: he does not. This is not an attack on him. This is something I say for your own benefit if you wish to fully awaken someday.

I know you guys don't like to believe it, but I'm telling you simply that I have accessed levels of consciousness which go beyond what you hear from famous neo-Advita teachers. But hey, find out for yourself what is true.

Quote

So it appears awareness is aware-ing in multiple different packages / points of view. You as Leo's first person point of view is just one of many different packages. Your parents are other packaging of the same stuff.

You're not aware that all those points of view are imagined by you. You even imagine Rupert Spira.

It's a trick you play on yourself to create "reality". If you didn't play this trick, nothing could exist.

Quote

Since this stuff, consciousness, is location-less and  property-less, we do not see it in others as we verify our own awareness in our own experience. We cannot verify that others are awareness, but they can and we can believe them.

This is an excuse and a rationalization for not becoming more conscious of what other minds are.

You can become directly conscious of all other minds. If you want. And then you will understand what they are.

This realization cannot be reached through the words or logic of any guru.

[Windappreciator]

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

... so I will move on to how frameworks are being misused.

 

A good example of frameworks being misused is when we have people talk about Relativity or Moral Unrealness. Now, the realization of Relativity is important, but it is not really Relativity. Again, that's just what your chimp mind uses to frame whatever you experienced, much like the concept of dream or imagination. Many people here don't truly have any sense of relativity, but yet they use this framework to justify and rationlize certain actions. They will tell you "morality is not real", when it suits them and then when something comes biting them in the ass, they quickly use the notions of morality and reframe them. They will call it something else. They will call it "unconsciousness", they will call it "foolish", they might call it anything. It should be very clear what is going on here, but it is not. People have a tendency to do this completely unconsciously. I think that is something we need to really work on as a community.

...

This is good.

[lmfao]

4 hours ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

 @Leo Gura for sure I acknowledge that, and it would be wise for those users to realize just how triggered they are.

Still there is triggered, then there is TRIGGERED. After all the bulk of the membership here isn't acting in such a way, and the element that is is actively pissing off others within the group - hence, you have a problem.

Of course I do not personally identify within this group so I am sincerely offering you this as an outside opinion, because it certainly does seem like you have a blindspot for this particular user which I do not think you would let others get away with.

Yep, it's your problem entirely. Responsibility doesn't land on Leo for that.

Of course, you can still cry and try to get some sympathy. But anyone with half a brain won't be budged an inch. 

4 hours ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

No mate, its my ammunition.

I have zero problem with users like this. They bake the cake for me, so please don't interpret this comment as me complaining, and these guys are welcome to come test their mettle on my channel anytime.

I am genuinely trying to help you here - Its your bad PR, just like Connor was your bad PR.

Do what you will with that bit of feedback, its your house 

3 hours ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

That's not true at all mate, I have said many times that I personally have enjoyed and found value in many of your videos, so to frame my criticism as a vendetta against you or this forum is simply false. I have defended you against absurd statements on my own channel, have given kudos to you in conversations with other YouTubers, and I was more than happy to show support in the recent Connor debacle in which I completely sided with you - so lets not muddy the waters here.

Still, if this particular comment from me has hit a sore spot then apologies, that wasn't my intention. I simply saw others within Actualized raise the same concern and thought you might appreciate an outside opinion. 

So much passive-aggressive horseshit. Yes, that was completely your intention. Play it straight

 

Edit: Sorry for snapping at you like that, I do genuinely feel bad about it. I got pissed and reactive. I am sorry and do feel bad, but I still think you're playing some bullshit 

Edited May 21, 2021 by lmfao

[XYZ]

As I've recently read Robert Monroe's books and those of his student Bruce Moen, they repeat at the beginning of the books the affirmation they use before out of body exploration. What may be helpful is something similar to start videos and articles: A guiding affirmation, much like "setting your intention" at the beginning of a yoga class, hyping youself up before going to an important meeting, or a mantra before bed to train for lucid dreaming.

Restating some of the basics, without sounding like a cultic mantra. Things Leo reiterates frequently like Although material reality including the body is imagined by consciousness, we never intend to cause physical harm to it. In fact, maintaining your health within the life-dream is fundamental to spiritual growth.... It is the false self that dies when the ego falls away, you need not fear your body harmed by transcending the ego identity, nor will suicide give you a shortcut to enlightenment....

I'll also mention that these books mentioned really connect a lot of things that Leo never covers, or dismisses as "new-age." A few months ago I got curious about all of the in-betweens, the infinite complexity between baseline human consciousness and infinite God-consciousness. Having a bit of direct experience with this and reading the direct experiences of others paints a much more complete picture of reality, rather than just thinking when everyone dies they have a full awakening, remember that they're God and that's it. In this sense, the psychadelics, dream hacking/astral projection and meditative states that take people into these other in-between consciousness levels are beneficial, since then one would not fall into the trap of thinking suicide is a guaranteed direct shortcut to full enlightenment. Even just learning about them as a complement to Actualized.org/other enlightenment teachings would probably dispell that myth.

[Samuel Garcia]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is an excuse and a rationalization for not becoming more conscious of what other minds are.

You can become directly conscious of all other minds. If you want. And then you will understand what they are.

This realization cannot be reached through the words or logic of any guru.

How to become conscious of an other/ other minds if all I know is experience? The best I know is the knowing of other minds. How can to escape this first person perspective at all?

[Dodo]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I have said this many times before.

What you're not aware of is that if you become more conscious than Rupert Spira you will realize he's not fully conscious that he is imaging all other minds, and that you are imaging him imaging other minds.

Like I have told you guys before, you are falling into the trap of taking these gurus on their word. You are not questioning Spira enough. You assume he has it figured out. And what I am telling you is: he does not. This is not an attack on him. This is something I say for your own benefit if you wish to fully awaken someday.

I know you guys don't like to believe it, but I'm telling you simply that I have accessed levels of consciousness which go beyond what you hear from famous neo-Advita teachers. But hey, find out for yourself what is true.

You're not aware that all those points of view are imagined by you. You even imagine Rupert Spira.

It's a trick you play on yourself to create "reality". If you didn't play this trick, nothing could exist.

This is an excuse and a rationalization for not becoming more conscious of what other minds are.

You can become directly conscious of all other minds. If you want. And then you will understand what they are.

This realization cannot be reached through the words or logic of any guru.

This is a wrong assumption, because I am not just listening to Spira and following his words like a belief system, nor yours, nor Eckhart's nor anybody. As you say, I check in my own experience and verify. I am not always on the same boat as Rupert and would voice my disagreements on his channel. 

But it is exactly this problem here about self-deception and how tricky it is. You talk about having an experience of higher state of consciousness and you know about the solipsistic nature of reality. You are somehow absolutely sure that you wouldn't even entertain the idea that it is not solipsistic and just brush it off as lower consciousness stuff. 

A solipsistic reality would mean that you would deny that I have a conscious experience of my own and would mean that I am just a figment of your imagination. And vice versa, from my point of view, you would be figment of my imagination and I am the only reality... Right...

So which one is it, am I the reality and you the imagination in my dream, or are you the reality and I am the imagination in your dream? How could both be the case? And if both are the case, then we can see both of us as reality and both of us as imaginary. Applied to wider population we can say this about every being on the planet and other planets and dimensions. 

I can tell you from my point of view, I am the reality and you appear to be my imagination. And you would say the opposite to me, that I am the imagination, but I would know that you are not right, because from my point of view, I am the reality. This is where solipsism fails. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Dodo

[Thought Art]

I think I like the work. I think I've misinterpreted things and gotten confused a few times along my journey. But, I personally take responsibility for those mistakes. It's hard because reality is so complex and nuanced and I am still just beginning to understand life. 

I think sometimes maybe you are so advanced that the teaches can feed into people imaginations and own internal story telling. 

I don't really care for how you seem to teach that we are all alone, and that other people are imaginary. That doesn't yet make sense to me on any practical level. Sure, people and memories are imaginary but they also ground people in reality. I do not believe that I am just typing this sentence out and no one will actually read it etc. I personally think this is dangerous and a useless teaching. Perhaps you are wording it in the wrong way. 

Is the entire universe really hands on a laptop typing this? Or is the universe more than that.. like the billions of people doing stuff around the world... for me its just my hands, but  idk

I love the love, consciousness, life purpose stuff etc. Overall grateful for the work and the forum. I know I personally need to keep growing and taking more responsibility for my own life. I especially enjoy the talks on integrity and wisdom, life long learning, habits, life purpose, escaping wage slavery, what is fear, what is authority, what is God, etc.

You have not ever told me to harm myself. Though, some teachings have been disturbing or ungrounding at times. But, I am aware that there is danger on this path. I would say that even though I have misused these teachings in the past because, frankly I only have one go at life and I make mistakes all the time. That, where I see my life headed right now is overall positive. 

I think I have to take full responsibility for my life. I have also miss applied things and miss understood things. At times questioning what it really means if I am God... But, I might be God, but the universe is a hard place that God can fuck up it's life brutally. So, it ain't fairy dust. You have said so many things in the videos, many of which I am slowly. beginning to experience. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Thought Art

[Harikrishnan]

8 minutes ago, Dodo said:

This is a wrong assumption, because I am not just listening to Spira and following his words like a belief system, nor yours, nor Eckhart's nor anybody. As you say, I check in my own experience and verify. I am not always on the same boat as Rupert and would voice my disagreements on his channel. 

But it is exactly this problem here about self-deception and how tricky it is. You talk about having an experience of higher state of consciousness and you know about the solipsistic nature of reality. You are somehow absolutely sure that you wouldn't even entertain the idea that it is not solipsistic and just brush it off as lower consciousness stuff. 

A solipsistic reality would mean that you would deny that I have a conscious experience of my own and would mean that I am just a figment of your imagination. And vice versa, from my point of view, you would be figment of my imagination and I am the only reality... Right...

So which one is it, am I the reality and you the imagination in my dream, or are you the reality and I am the imagination in your dream? How could both be the case? And if both are the case, then we can see both of us as reality and both of us as imaginary. Applied to wider population we can say this about every being on the planet and other planets and dimensions. 

I can tell you from my point of view, I am the reality and you appear to be my imagination. And you would say the opposite to me, that I am the imagination, but I would know that you are not right, because from my point of view, I am the reality. This is where solipsism fails. 

I realize both of you are imagined by me going back n forth. someone else will come and tag my comment and say exact thing and to infinity(but thats imagined by me) There are no other minds,other than this.

[Etherial Cat]

32 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I really doubt that this is his motivation to make videos about this. I don't get the impression that this person is motivated by views.

By posting a video on youtube, don't you wish for views?

Beside, I'm not saying that this is his sole motivation. I'm just saying that its guaranteed attention so it is at best a two-in-one. And of course, this "story" is particularly juicy material in terms of eyeballs.

He's got a long story of poking actualized.org and he knew very well that there would be a reaction. Leo's got a million subscribers. That's all I am saying.

Also, I'm not at ease with anyone who co-opt a suicide and feels appropriate to give an opinion on the matter on a freaking youtube channel, when after all he doesn't have all the elements to judge. But that's just me.

That's why I called that move opportunistic, but you're free to disagree.

[Consept]

3 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

By posting a video on youtube, don't you wish for views?

Beside, I'm not saying that this is his sole motivation. I'm just saying that its guaranteed attention so it is at best a two-in-one. And of course, this "story" is particularly juicy material in terms of eyeballs.

He's got a long story of poking actualized.org and he knew very well that there would be a reaction. Leo's got a million subscribers. That's all I am saying.

Also, I'm not at ease with anyone who co-opt a suicide and feels appropriate to give an opinion on the matter on a freaking youtube channel, when after all he doesn't have all the elements to judge. But that's just me.

That's why I called that move opportunistic, but you're free to disagree.

Hmm im not sure, he could very well be doing it for views but i dont think that takes away from his points, some of which were valid. I also dont think its a bad thing to poke at actualized.org or any other group or person, as long as its not obviously false and done in bad faith. This seems like an attack on the character rather than a discussion of his criticism. 

It is interesting seeing perspectives play out in this case the pscychonaut guy and Leo. There will always be bias from either side Leo believes that hes doing great work that is helping many people awaken and this guy thinks his work is good but maybe in some cases too extreme in terms of certainty and manner of delivery to the audience. The thing is both of them are right from their perspective and also both can be right, its very possible Leo is doing great work and that there is spiritual arrogance and delivery methods that could, unintentionally, encourage people follow in a cultish way. The thing is though whatever you do there is always a dark side to it that youre not even really in control of, especially if it involves a group of people, i doubt there are any speakers or youtube people with large followings that dont cause some negatives to their followers or to the world, its then easy for others to pick on these negatives and class the person as all bad, without looking at what theyre actually trying to do or say. 

If this forum purports itself to be a high consciousness one it should be able to take on board criticisms, filtering out the bias and slander, and use it constructively to further look at ourselves and where we can improve, otherwise we're just like every other 'movement', defensive and insular. 

[RendHeaven]

36 minutes ago, Dodo said:

A solipsistic reality would mean that you would deny that I have a conscious experience of my own and would mean that I am just a figment of your imagination. And vice versa, from my point of view, you would be figment of my imagination and I am the only reality... Right...

So which one is it, am I the reality and you the imagination in my dream, or are you the reality and I am the imagination in your dream? How could both be the case? And if both are the case, then we can see both of us as reality and both of us as imaginary. Applied to wider population we can say this about every being on the planet and other planets and dimensions. 

You're begging the question.

You take "separate conscious experiences" so utterly for granted that you fall hook line and sinker for the illusion.

"Separate conscious experiences" are an assumption. Necessarily. It must be. You have zero way to verify them, because you are unable to "step outside" of "your own" conscious experience and into "some else's."

YOU are actually the one speculating.

40 minutes ago, Dodo said:

I can tell you from my point of view, I am the reality and you appear to be my imagination. And you would say the opposite to me, that I am the imagination, but I would know that you are not right, because from my point of view, I am the reality. This is where solipsism fails. 

If you really Knew that I Am [The Reality], you would be unable to assert the text I've highlighted in bold.

You would simply stop at "I Am. Infinite Imagination."

There would be no more "from my point of view," no more "I am 'the reality'," no more "you appear to be my [imagination]," no more "but I would know that you are not right," and no more "solipsism"

[Vinnie]

No complaints here. I haven't done all the reading but I think I'm starting to piece everything together now. 

No more ego games from me.

[TheAlchemist]

I want to say that your work has inspired me to look at the world again with a mysterious sense of wonder that I have always had, but that I have not found others who could relate to it with. It has helped me more than any other individual source to make sense of the world and to identify many of my own biases and ways in which I trick myself. It has given me a framework and something to relate my psychedelic experiences to, which has been immeasurably valuable in minimizing unnecessary suffering from the solitary nature of this work and for having some kind of map on where it might be good to look. I have three points that I have been thinking about for some time.

1. I think a lot of this drama and controversy just ties into a few key things in your videos. I don't think the negative reaction is primarily due to what you say in your videos, but rather due to how you say it. And it's not even anything very big, it's just these subtle expressions and ways of saying things which trigger people. As an example you might say I am God vs. You are God. This is a small difference but to an outsider the former word choice causes a whole other level of triggering. There are many people online who say even more radical stuff than you, but because of how they say it, there isn't as much uneasiness and backlash. So I think a lot of the drama could be eliminated with subtle tonality changes and word choices that don't need to affect the content itself. Maybe it's a sacrifice in authenticity, but it might result in calmer waters and be a net benefit.

2. Many people use this forum as an emotional unloading/venting place. I think this is one of the main causes of distraction here. Emotions are unloaded as baggage to other people without their consent and this is taken as some fundamental right that people hold, so that might be something that should be regulated to some extent at least. I mean posts and comments that have no genuine intention at looking at things from a new perspective or to actually solve the issue, they are just pure expressions of frustration, anger or bitterness. This brings me to my third point/suggestion.

3. Some kind of barrier of entry to the forum. I have been a part of many online communities, and the best ones have been the ones with some barrier to entry. This is probably not easy to implement in the forum, but a questionnaire when creating an account would be golden. Just basic questions to see if the user has read the rules of the forum and to see what their intentions are in using the forum. This can filter out a lot of spammers and trolls who don't have the energy to even look at the rules or have no interest in real development and learning. 

Also I think it's important to keep allowing criticism, at least when there is a genuine desire to find some common ground. It seems to me that for example @AdeptusPsychonautica's criticisms have been mostly good faith, with a desire to find some common ground. You would much rather have Adeptus as the (sometimes annoying) person pointing out potential problems than someone who was truly with bad intentions. And somebody needs to serve that function, that niche of pointing out criticism will inevitably get filled with a community as large as this. So having someone like Adeptus (who often acts in good faith) is a real blessing compared to what it could be. So it's good to keep good diplomacy with the "opposing" side, which will inevitably emerge regardless of who it is. 

[Dodo]

11 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

You're begging the question.

You take "separate conscious experiences" so utterly for granted that you fall hook line and sinker for the illusion.

"Separate conscious experiences" are an assumption. Necessarily. It must be. You have zero way to verify them, because you are unable to "step outside" of "your own" conscious experience and into "some else's."

YOU are actually the one speculating.

If you really Knew that I Am [The Reality], you would be unable to assert the text I've highlighted in bold.

You would simply stop at "I Am. Infinite Imagination."

There would be no more "from my point of view," no more "I am 'the reality'," no more "you appear to be my [imagination]," no more "but I would know that you are not right," and no more "solipsism"

So you're saying Leo needs to also stop at " I am. Infinite imagination". in all of his videos, instead of 2-3 hour long content? Otherwise he is not conscious he is The Reality?  Cause he is talking in videos about solipsistic nature of reality, which, by your definition, would mean he is not fully conscious that he is [The Reality]. 

It appears if you become conscious you are "The Reality", you become a tree, by your words. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Dodo

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Samuel Garcia said:

How to become conscious of an other/ other minds if all I know is experience?

If you become infinitely conscious, you will know all there is to know.

I cannot give you the answer to the "other" question. You must come to it yourself.

Anyhow, let's not derail this thread any more with the solipsism question here.

[Etherial Cat]

10 minutes ago, Consept said:

Hmm im not sure, he could very well be doing it for views but i dont think that takes away from his points, some of which were valid. I also dont think its a bad thing to poke at actualized.org or any other group or person, as long as its not obviously false and done in bad faith. This seems like an attack on the character rather than a discussion of his criticism. 

It is interesting seeing perspectives play out in this case the pscychonaut guy and Leo. There will always be bias from either side Leo believes that hes doing great work that is helping many people awaken and this guy thinks his work is good but maybe in some cases too extreme in terms of certainty and manner of delivery to the audience. The thing is both of them are right from their perspective and also both can be right, its very possible Leo is doing great work and that there is spiritual arrogance and delivery methods that could, unintentionally, encourage people follow in a cultish way. The thing is though whatever you do there is always a dark side to it that youre not even really in control of, especially if it involves a group of people, i doubt there are any speakers or youtube people with large followings that dont cause some negatives to their followers or to the world, its then easy for others to pick on these negatives and class the person as all bad, without looking at what theyre actually trying to do or say. 

If this forum purports itself to be a high consciousness one it should be able to take on board criticisms, filtering out the bias and slander, and use it constructively to further look at ourselves and where we can improve, otherwise we're just like every other 'movement', defensive and insular. 

It has nothing to do with an ad-hominem. I issue this criticism of clickbaiting with newspaper all the time, but in this case the information comes from a person. What can I do if the dynamic is the same but there is not a team of journalist but a single person behind? All actors have an agenda. 

He's got all the right to create content and express himself. I have no problem with that. What I am taking issue more is to come here on this thread and complain that some people got triggered by his videos, when the very nature of the subject is emotional. Simple cause and effect. On this specific point, he's not having my sympathy, nor by calling this effect "cult like".  And this misrepresentation is quite problematic. Even though, I agree that some individuals who are using the forum on the regular have been particularly problematic.

Also, I've said that it was a 1-in-2. I don't say that growing his community is the sole concern, but my personal take on that matter is that Soonhei's suicide is a private event and not a public one that should be discussed on the public sphere, in order to respect his family. If I had my own channel, I would have chosen not to discuss it.

It's the first time that I issue any type of criticism over critiscism of Actualized.org. By no mean would I not want it to stop. But anything which is putting fuel or potentially firing up this story pandering on the cult narrative or Actualized.org responsability from far or close will not have my support.

 

[Leo Gura]

Please, no more attacking Adeptus. Let him be.

I might do a live conversation with him in the future to clear the air. He can be reasoned with and he's not a bad guy.

[Lyubov]

I actually intentionally and silently left the forum a week ago with no plans to return, but just heard on another channel about this. 

My main concern (and this started after some reflecting) was the Connor stuff recently and how I feel your videos and this community may have played a role. I see a lot of mentally and emotionally unwell people on your forum getting advice to do psychedelics and in general just taking on stuff that is way over their heads from where they are at. I just don’t think you have a degree of wisdom or embodiment or life experience that is needed to be a spiritual teacher yet or run a community of this size. You helped me a ton when I was younger with getting out of a victim mindset and taking action but as I caught up and got into psychedelics myself I found myself diverging with you more and more in many areas especially contradictory in experience as well. You’ll always have a special place in my heart Leo and you are a great dude and someone I still very much admire but I don’t feel I wanna continue following your project. I hope this recent event leads to an evolution of your work and this forum in some way that is more healthily and functional than how it is now.