Major Discussion Of Actualized.org Teachings & The Future

[RMQualtrough]

7 minutes ago, Roy said:

It doesn't matter if a lot of those people can take them alone and be fine, it's about being extra safe and idiot proofing the process of it so the bad apples don't ruin it for everyone else. It's exactly this kind of caution that will be necessary to move the legalization along and get it more culturally accepted.

It is not only bad apples, 5-MeO can cause seizures and vomiting in some people (the latter being dangerous in that a person could choke on it), and it would be possible to OD. If someone mixes up which point "1" their scale is on (100mg vs 10mg).

That specifically is a substance where great care ought to be taken as people lose their body and are completely out of control.

[RendHeaven]

46 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The world needs a new way of doing spirituality which is more direct, more effective. My job is to research and share that way. Maybe you think I'm deluded for attempting that, but even if I fail, to me it was a worthwhile goal. And I have already discovered many amazing ways to speed things up. If only people are willing to listen and practice.

This makes me vibrate with excitement

[SpiritualAwakening]

30 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

This guy is telling me that Actualized Org community is responsible for the guy's suicide.

When I call out his lies,he calls me an idiot. Beautiful. 

 

 

 

 

It's funny how they've mentioned Gangaji and other names of people who uncovered Absolute Truth but totally bash Leo, you can obviously see they hold a grudge against them.

Edited May 21, 2021 by SpiritualAwakening

[RendHeaven]

33 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

See that's what I thought, although Leo's latest reply seems to suggest the other way.

There is no contradiction between what "I" said and what "Leo" said  

[Vignan]

@Leo Gura So far whatever Leo taught was so true to believe but I didn't take anything on the word. I did my own research and through practice of various techniques, I can conclude that in order to become a critic to actualized.org, you need to attain the same level of consciousness Leo is.

One in thousand can take any practical teaching in a wrong way, not just spirituality but every teaching. Hence, it is your level of understanding and the environment you are decides what kind of decision you make. 

Any genuine feedback would be appreciated. But you cannot change the devilry to occur. 

[SpiritualAwakening]

15 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@SpiritualAwakening his only argument is to keep calling me an idiot. He has no substance. All his arguments are hollow ad hominem just like his bs video.

 

I understand where you're coming from sister but please stop going back and forth on his video, you'll never get him to say you're right I was wrong. For potential newcomers it will only look like you're defending a "cult master". Trust me I totally get your frustration, I've communicated with this guy on a video-call that took 2 hours, there's no hope. Better to let people experience Actualized for themselves rather them wipe it all away due to the judgments they'll give based on your comments.

Edited May 21, 2021 by SpiritualAwakening

[UNZARI]

Just stop giving this guy attention he’s just looking for a way to leech off of a bigger channel for views. He really has nothing better to do than spread highschool drama on YouTube. Forget him lol

[intotheblack]

@Leo Gura

Finding actualized . Org was a life changer for me, and it’s opened my mind up so much and I have learned so much from your videos. They are very educational for me, and many things I would never have even though about if it wasn’t for you doing all the work and bringing us this information. 

I’ve never interpreted any of the radical things you have said as suicide promotion, but then again if I were heavily involved with psychedelics then who knows.  But from my current world view I haven’t. 

I’m not really involved so much with psychedelic side of things or this section of the forum, so I have no feedback on that, but clearly there are people who hang onto your every word.

My grievances are more regarding the promotion of pickup and advice given to male members on the  forum regarding relationships and women.  Which some of the female members here have called you out on before.  More loving and conscious advice could be promoted in this area. 

Whilst I don’t always agree with what you say regarding that area, I can separate that when I’m watching your videos and don’t hold any grudge, it’s more like having an annoying friend or brother who you clash with in some areas, but bond with in others, and in the end I don’t take it too seriously. I can just frown and then go about my day. 

People come here with nobody to look up to so they look to you for answers, and sometimes i think you need to be more aware of the type of things you say on the forum mostly.  I think this is where most of the misunderstandings lie. The videos are different because you can be more clear and explain exactly what you mean. But things can be more easily twisted and become toxic when said in vain on the forum, when typed casually.  People here can and do think that you hold all the answers, but really you are just a human and don’t know everything. 

This forum is basically my social media, but it’s easy to get caught up in it the way you get caught up in other social platforms.  Definitely some people spend way too much time on here, myself included,  and waste a lot of time theorising about stuff, we should commit to taking more breaks and not get so addicted and consumed by it.    

 

How about making the forum more private and not public for everyone to see? 

How about making your videos more private through the website so that only members can view certain ones? deciding which ones you want the whole world to view and which ones should be members only.

Edited May 21, 2021 by intotheblack

[Adamq8]

@UNZARI Exactly!!!

That Adeptus right there for you, pathetic guy imo and really is the one who is delusional.

I cant understand that people want to listen to that ignorant dude

Edited May 21, 2021 by Adamq8

[Eternity]

I have been on this forum for only a few months and did not follow Soonhei so I've not commented though I am sorry for his family's loss.  I did see some of his beliefs in a few posts that were copy/pasted on the Soonhei thread, and he did express his thoughts so well, I found myself in full agreement.  But it would never have crossed my mind that he would interpret anything Leo teaches as a call to suicide.  Actually the opposite is true.  Leo is very life affirming in every video of his I have watched.  He can be a little salty at times, (ahem) but his teaching does not point to committing suicide.  At all.

I wonder, and this is only to hopefully avoid someone else misinterpreting something Leo says, if there needs to be more explanation maybe at the beginning of each video re: spiritual work, as to the difference between speaking in relative terms and speaking in absolute terms and how important it is to understand that we often speak in relative terms because everything in our "lives" in this world is relative and it is hard to express the absolute in relative terms.  Each of us needs to ponder before making life changing decisions whether we know the difference and how misunderstanding can lead  to treacherous territory.

Otherwise, I have no criticism of Leo's work and find his video's to be intelligent and compelling in a good way.

[Windappreciator]

I think the actual criticisms are not with your teachings, but with your character and some see your videos as a reckless approach.

You may think about this too strategically and focused on what it will do to the image of actualized rather than embody compassion and soft heartedness.

There was a good case made that many perceive you as a guru rather than a scientist, because of the way you present your insights in videos, even though that might just be a consequence because of the intensitiy. What will happen if other suicide cases occur that could be linked to actualized, even if it is not really your fault, will you be able to defend it off with PR? Maybe you would not need to much when your personality speeks for yourself?

I am not sure, I just enjoy the metaphysics and philosophy. To me you never seemed like guru material, but more like a buddy.

However, I do believe keeping a certain higher quality of threads on this forum will help keep things calm and align the minds of those that produe noise or sort them out and it would make a calmer impression on outsiders.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Adamq8]

1 hour ago, Sempiternity said:

I greatly appreciate what Leo and Actualized.org are doing. Leo is an explorer of the ultimate frontier, the endless depths of consciousness. Leo may have reached levels of consciousness that no other has ever done and been able to talk about it. To me he is doing the most important work of anyone one the planet. What's more important than this work? I am here for his more existential videos, like last weeks, and not too interested in the more practical videos. So Leo, please keep going with higher and higher teachings. To anyone on the forum that doesn't like his teachings, please leave so we can continue to enjoy Leo's work in peace. 

I can get behind this as well!

[outlandish]

@SoonHei committed a spiritual and physical suicide, he jumped in a leap of faith into infinity. Trouble is he left behind his finite family and all those who love him. 

This community can't be held solely accountable for the choice of a man, a free agent. But also, we need to take a look at the conditions that helped foster his worldview such that he would come to make this choice. We're interconnected here in terms of thought, outlook, worldview, and the content of actualized.org certainly fed profoundly into his worldview. 

In that light, I can definitely see how he came to his conclusion. I don't think in 1000 years that I, or most of us would jump. But I can definitely see his line of thought, and how some of the content and ideas around here might lead someone to think this way. We're not in some kind of crisis of being inside a suicide cult, but if we don't deeply address this issue, it will be doomed to repeat here and there. We can't just write it off as collateral damage, or as statistically inevitable. His actions were deeply intertwined with some lines of thought and perspectives floated here.

[John Iverson]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Preety_India Please hold back from getting into intense debates over such things.

I know your heart is in the right place. You want to defend Actualized.org. But keep in mind that actively confronting someone like Adeptus who has strong views via the comment section will tend to pour fuel on the fire.

How would you approach and what would you do about this? I want to learn from this, because sooner or later if i get famous of something i believe in atleast when that day come iwant to be wise to handle issues

Edited May 21, 2021 by John Iverson

[Windappreciator]

6 minutes ago, John Iverson said:

How would you approach and what would you do about this? I want to learn from this, because sooner or later if i get famous of something i believe in atleast when that day come iwant to be wise to handle issues

You can start with loving animals.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Tetcher2]

I deleted my old account (randomized my password) after I fell for a bait in the Soonhei thread, I was tired but it's not an excuse, I better follow this work from a distant place of silence and witness. You can delete my old account and this one too after I'm done. So my feedback about Leo's work is the following :

Consciousness work :  I find value in your work when it comes to your trip reports, protocols and research. There are few contradictions for instance when you say "what I communicate is only what is true at my current level of consciousness, it couldn't be otherwise" but then you threaten to ban anyone who challenges that love is the ultimate, or temporary experience doesn't make it less true. As per your first statement, and you made false statements in the past (eg. that you were rewiring your brain during your enlightenment experience on youtube, or the healing in god mode) someday you may hit a permanent experience or understanding and speak differently. Overall I like and I'm in tune with what you communicate in your trip reports (I consider your last video a glorified trip report), especially now that it's clear you don't push people to do psychedelics when they are in a bad spot (unlike Martin Ball who says to double down and face your fears). I don't find the angle of attack that tries to blame Soonhei death on you credible.

Conscious politics : I mostly disagree with your entire conscious politics arc :

- Spiral dynamics : its merit is to introduce some common vocabulary and framework of understanding but to me is fundamentally flawed, especially the idea of verticality  (one stage is superior to the other). Let's compare stage blue and stage yellow : a stage blue farmer has a life of hard labour, has to work from 6am to 7pm, has little to no entertainment, manages to live like this for decades supported by his religiousness. A yellow stage academics spends his day debating people, living in his head building models and imagining interactions between systems but has the luxury of this time only because the blue farmer is producing food for him. If the academic had to replace the farmer he would have no clue and couldn't handle the rigor of such a life, physically exhausting, no mental entertainment, he would be unable to take over the farm. How can you say that the stage yellow is superior to the blue stage ? The blue farmer is a stronger being than the yellow academics on many levels (and the yellow is stronger on others, they are complimentary not superior/inferior). One counter argument is to say that the farmer can be yellow and the academics blue, it highlights another flaw of the SD : you can twist the SD model any way you want, if something doesn't fit your narrative just add a bit of percentage, eg "he has some green which explains why he said that but he really is mostly orange !",  it has no predictive value. Saying Trump is red is an illustration of that, you're putting him on the same level as a low education burglar or murderer.

- Trump/conservatives : This point is linked with the SD point because there is the underlying notion of value that I disagree with. First you say that all criticism is untenable, that you are Trump and Trump is Leo, that love is the ultimate, etc. Yet you are so strongly biased against Trump that it throws all the previous statements in the bin and make you look like you don't integrate your own realizations. And don't say that your stance on Trump is compatible with those statements, you nag him, you call him stupid, you are not equanimous. I don't feel strongly about Trump either way, my problem is the implication of your stance to your respect of democracy. Trump is not Hitler, to my knowledge he never made hateful comments about races or minorities unlike Hitler, the idea he would put people into death camps isn't serious. Now Trump got elected on key ideas that he advertised clearly, and those ideas are certainly in the purview of democracy. Tightening borders is in the purview of a democracy, citizens have the right to tighten their borders, medicare, monetary policy, foreign affairs, etc all those are in the purview of a democracy. Once he was elected his political opponents should have folded to some extent and reevaluated their positions towards the choice that had been made, this is democracy. If all you do is resist everything and refuse to reevaluate the slightest then you are not a democrat (as in pro-democracy). 

Overall if you are truthful about wanting to minimize the drama in you can just remove the society section altogether and drop the conscious politics arc.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Tetcher2

[Harikrishnan]

I have been following actualized.org for 5 years and last 5 years have been best of my life. I took more responsibility about my relationship,spirituality,(health and finance (which i need to improve more on) but overall i am satisfied with result actualized.org have given me.  Im really thankfull to leo for opening my mind to psychedelic and most of things you explained in videos i experienced. I resonate lot with your work and i can see your love for us, i dont understand when people say your work lack heart, all i can see is heart pouring out for us. I realized there is no death and i saw my mother is just my imagination(she just vanished infront of me on my lsd trip) yet my love for life has increased more, like 100x and love for others even when knowing they are imaginary. 

only problem i felt with your work is its actually not your but mine that i see a lot of your videos and when i experience same thing with psychedelic, what you say, i kind of feel i am seeing through your lens than mine(since you explain everything in detail) i doubt whether iam deluding myself and check wether is this a belief playing out or is actual realization happening.

other thing is i idealize your work a lot, like you put a lot of content in form of yt videos, blogs,forum, life purpose. cosuming all these is important to raise my consciousness but at meantime i have to check myself not turn to a mini leo.

[NoSelfSelf]

@Leo Gura i dont have a problem because i confirmed it all for myself in direct experience but i have problem with myself regarding the teachings (not just enlightement stuff ) is that i dont form my opinions my thinking then use you as a crutch because i already assume im deluding myself ?

[Space]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

I'm aware of it.

I'm trying to make the guy understand his blindspots and trickery. 

It wasn't even intense 

Intense would have been if he were here on this thread instead of hiding behind a screen taking sneaky jabs at me 

Best course of action for these people is to simply ignore them. As Leo said, you don't want to aggravate him or make things worse. In a few weeks he will have forgotten all about it. So just let him be.

[Tetcher2]

17 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Tetcher2 stop trying to make things personal.

Don't bring my personal stuff here.

 

You're right. I just read your exchange with Adeptus on youtube and it made me feel compassion for you. Avoid posts like the one I had linked if you are able to, simply report your harassers to mods. Take care.