Major Discussion Of Actualized.org Teachings & The Future

[Fran11]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I do dismiss manual practices

 

I feel part of the reason is becouse of the discordance beetween the No-Mind spiritual practices you are most familiar with VS the God-Mind territory you are passionate about exploring.

I'm NOT saying one can go as far as achieving God-Realization levels sober. Pyschedelics are definetly an extremely useful took for this work.

But you are far too negative about rising one's baseline IMO. 

[herghly]

@Leo Guraperhaps a video on grounding spiritual insights would be useful. It can be used to refute these BS critics too

[lardplanet]

59 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Such people are rare and spiritually gifted

Hmmm I wonder who these people are? Naturally gifted...Innately aware of these things. Would there be any out there? Ones I could learn from If I was humble? It's a Mystery..

[herghly]

I really think @AdeptusPsychonautica is an idiot. He looks at things and  can't understand multiple different perspectives. For someone who's taken so many psychedelics, he's still stuck in delusions. 

 

Again, "psychedelics don't work on stupid people"

Edited May 21, 2021 by herghly

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

But you are far too negative about rising one's baseline IMO. 

I should clarify. I am not dismissive of manual practices to the point of saying they shouldn't be done. I would say I'm just more realistic about them.

Having attended plenty of meditation treats and others places which stressed manual practices, what I saw was many, many people who were basically clueless in their levels of consciousness. And these were not newbies. These were serious meditators with 10+ years of experience. So after seeing that, I realized that this whole meditation and self-inquiry thing is a racket. It's designed to lure people in with sweet promises and then not delivering them.

The objective facts are on my side. If meditation and self-inquiry are so effective as you believe, then why are 98% of meditators not awake? Why don't know what God is? Why can't they say what Love is? Why don't they understand what Infinity is? Why can't they answer basic metaphysical questions about reality and consciousness?

The answer is simple: meditation can work, but it rarely gets you that high unless you are ridiculously good at it and you do it as a full-time job.

Again, to be crystal clear: manual practices are very important! But they are really mostly suitable for hardcore practioners. And still, you will not become as conscious as you could with psychedelics, unless maybe you are a genetic spiritual freak.

I am tired of spiritual teachings which leave most people clueless and in the dark and struggling with decades of sitting on the cushion. Those teachings already exist, they are ridiculously ineffective, and I have no desire to recreate another such teaching. If that's what you want, go have it. Why do you need Actualized.org to rehash it for you? Go do Vipassana. See how far you get. The typical person won't get far. Hence I de-emphasize that stuff.

The world needs a new way of doing spirituality which is more direct, more effective. My job is to research and share that way. Maybe you think I'm deluded for attempting that, but even if I fail, to me it was a worthwhile goal. And I have already discovered many amazing ways to speed things up. If only people are willing to listen and practice.

[4201]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, they are imagined. But you are stuck and limited by that imagination and you have very little power to unimagine it.

The one who has little power to unimagine it, is what is being imagined!  All limitations are imagined, especially the limitation that makes it hard to unimagine.

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I wouldn't a PR nightmare next month when your mom tells me that you lost your dick in a spiritual woodchipper ritual.

You won't even see the lawsuit coming on this one! What a genius way to pay my rent. Thanks for the idea.

Statistically speaking though, there is a demographic of people that will be helped from debunking their suicide ideation, even if it's just one video. Even if it's not that interesting to you personally, I'm sure it will save lives over the years. Not necessarily members of the forum, but random suicidal people who stumble on your video by accident and end up not taking their lives thanks to it.

Edited May 21, 2021 by 4201

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

I should clarify. I am not dismissive of manual practices to the point of saying they shouldn't be done. I would say I'm just more realistic about them.

Having attended plenty of mediation treats and others places which stressed manual practices, what I saw was many, many people who were basically clueless in their levels of consciousness. And these were not newbies. These were serious meditators with 10+ years of experience. So after seeing that, I realized that this whole meditation and self-inquiry thing is a racket. It's designed to lure people in with sweet promises and then not delivering them.

The objective facts are on my side. If meditation and self-inquiry are so effective as you believe, then why are 98% of meditators not awake? Why don't know what God is? Why can't they say what Love is? Why don't they understand what Infinity is? Why can't they answer basic metaphysical questions about reality and consciousness?

The answer is simple: meditation can work, but it rarely gets you that high unless you are ridiculous good at it and you do it as a full-time job.

This is a really interesting point that i've thought about recently. Think about a teacher like Rupert Spira. I have found a lot of value in his teaching style, and I think he's a great teacher, but who are all these people watching his videos? If a person really understood his teaching, why is there a need to keep following? But he has a large following. There are lots of gaps in the classical neo advaita teaching even though I think it provides some great insight

[kieranperez]

Here's where I stand. 

• Your work has not only changed my life and helped actually turned my life around but also helped lay the ground work to not give in to suicide when I was at my most suicidal. I ran into your work after being in a hospital and it showed me the way out such that I now have had several enlightenment experiences, my relationships are better than ever, I've turned around many of the things that I've been traumatized by since I was kid including things like ADHD by providing resources and outlets and also community to find what I've been looking for my entire life.
• Your work has provided me a community such that I've met people in person that have helped me turn my life around 180 degrees.
• When I came across what you had to say about psychedelics in the early days I was on 5-7 different psych medications that were destroying my very cognition to the point where I couldn't function anymore. I was taking 2-4 hour naps everyday, barely able to stay awake, could barely drive, and at my lowest point in terms of sheer hopelessness and depression. I trusted what you had to say about psychedelics and that you recommended a slow gradual approach and also how they are not safe to mix with SSRI's, mood stabilizers, and such substances. I trusted you and I actually got off all my meds and abandoned the system was doing more damage so I could try this route in order to get to the root of my own suffering and deepest demons. Turns out, by and large, through extensive research (which you recommended), trial and error, a careful methodical approach, it did help me with just that. However, like you also said, they were no magic pill in that I still had to follow up and do the heavy lifting. 
• You provided resources to teachers, some of whom have become some my own teachers personally. If it wasn't for you, I don't know if I would've found them. I imagine not though. 
• In March of 2020 I had my first spontaneous powerful kensho/satori where it was clear that no experience is ever enlightenment. So I do disagree with you when it comes to that. However, I've also seen you say that you are simply a gateway for newbies. That's what you were for me. I've also met plenty of other teachers (I just had dinner with one) that I disagree with about things they deluded about and I think you know a lot more on when it comes to society, government, mind, etc. Teachers and people in this work disagree in one fashion or another and it's expressed in about as many ways as there have been people. So I don't hold hard feelings like that. I think people are probably going to get lead astray if they just sheepishly take what you have to say, hear it, have some experience (psychedelic or otherwise) and taint whatever experience they have and lay some conceptual layering over it which is comprised of their interpretations they have of what you say based on what they create in their mind. I may think you're incorrect but they're responsible for their end. So I don't feel it's fair for me to fault you on that. 
• Although I disagree with you about awakening I do think your contributions on psychology, development, and so forth is solid enough and I think you are of great service. I can nit pick but it's just nit picking.
• I think if you wanted to turn this thing into a cult you could've EASILY done that a long time ago. I find a lot of people on here are gullible (I was one for sure) and I think it really does show something about you, a guy with your kind online social presence and influence, hasn't gotten into more serious shit. I think it's a testament that you actually are committed to what it is you say you are.  
• I don't consider you my teacher. To be honest you never were for me. You were a guy very similar to me, as far as I could tell from videos, which is extremely limited (for all I know you could have children chained to a radiator in your basement - assuming people in Vegas have basements...) that showed me the way, the path to what it was I looking for my entire life but didn't know it. And I will always be thankful for that. Anybody that says your video promote suicide can talk to me and I'll tell them to go fuck themselves. 

Make of that what you will. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by kieranperez

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, 4201 said:

The one who has little power to unimagine it, is what is being imagined!  All limitations are imagined, especially the limitation that makes it hard to unimagine.

You talk a big talk, but the fact remains you are stuck in your imaginings and powerless to change them much.

You can't even grow a sixth finger. Let alone unimagine the limits of your body.

Quote

Statistically speaking though, there is a demographic of people that will be helped from debunking their suicide ideation, even if it's just one video.

I released a video last month called "Is Actualized.org A Cult?" in which I told people clearly: "Commit to never harming your body. Ego death is not physical death."

Maybe go watch that video.

It is pointless for me to make more videos when people don't watch the old ones which clearly explain all these things.

You think I'm some fool who has never considered that somebody might twist my teachings into some evil and stupidity? I have issued all kinds of warnings for years. This is not some recent development. All of this was foreseen years ago. I told you many times that people would look for ways to corrupt my teachings. Here we are.

The fundamental problem here is that I teach truthful things every directly. And people just don't handle it well. They take it personally. As egos love to do. I have worked hard to stay authentic to my style of direct and blunt teachers because that is what my heart is into. I do not like beating around the bush with people and withholding things.

[Fran11]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If meditation and self-inquiry are so effective as you believe, then why are 98% of meditators not awake?

I didn't mean Meditation and Self- Inquiry. Those I would put into the No-Mind category and they are not very good at taking you in the Psychedelic God-Mind direction.

But spend at least a year seriously doing something like Imagination Develepement and tell me if your Consiousness doesn't become progressively more Psychedelic-like.

Anyways, just sharing my experiences, I have no interesting in getting into a debate over this.

Love your work.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Fran11

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

Here's where I stand. 

• Your work has not only changed my life and helped actually turned my life around but also helped lay the ground work to not give in to suicide when I was at my most suicidal. I ran into your work after being in a hospital and it showed me the way out such that I now have had several enlightenment experiences, my relationships are better than ever, I've turned around many of the things that I've been traumatized by since I was kid including things like ADHD by providing resources and outlets and also community to find what I've been looking for my entire life.
• Your work has provided me a community such that I've met people in person that have helped me turn my life around 180 degrees.
• When I came across what you had to say about psychedelics in the early days I was on 5-7 different psych medications that were destroying my very cognition to the point where I couldn't function anymore. I was taking 2-4 hour naps everyday, barely able to stay awake, could barely drive, and at my lowest point in terms of sheer hopelessness and depression. I trusted what you had to say about psychedelics and that you recommended a slow gradual approach and also how they are not safe to mix with SSRI's, mood stabilizers, and such substances. I trusted you and I actually got off all my meds and abandoned the system was doing more damage so I could try this route in order to get to the root of my own suffering and deepest demons. Turns out, by and large, through extensive research (which you recommended), trial and error, a careful methodical approach, it did help me with just that. However, like you also said, they were no magic pill in that I still had to follow up and do the heavy lifting. 
• You provided resources to teachers, some of whom have become some my own teachers personally. If it wasn't for you, I don't know if I would've found them. I imagine not though. 
• In March of 2020 I had my first spontaneous powerful kensho/satori where it was clear that no experience is ever enlightenment. So I do disagree with you when it comes to that. However, I've also seen you say that you are simply a gateway for newbies. That's what you were for me. I've also met plenty of other teachers (I just had dinner with one) that I disagree with about things they deluded about and I think you know a lot more on when it comes to society, government, mind, etc. Teachers and people in this work disagree in one fashion or another and it's expressed in about as many ways as there have been people. So I don't hold hard feelings like that. I think people are probably going to get lead astray if they just sheepishly take what you have to say, hear it, have some experience (psychedelic or otherwise) and taint whatever experience they have and lay some conceptual layering over it which is comprised of their interpretations they have of what you say based on what they create in their mind. I may think you're incorrect but they're responsible for their end. So I don't feel it's fair for me to fault you on that. 
• Although I disagree with you about awakening I do think your contributions on psychology, development, and so forth is solid enough and I think you are of great service. I can nit pick but it's just nit picking.
• I don't consider you my teacher. To be honest you never were for me. You were a guy very similar to me, as far as I could tell from videos, which is extremely limited (for all I know you could have children chained to a radiator in your basement - assuming people in Vegas have basements...) that showed me the way, the path to what it was I looking for my entire life but didn't know it. And I will always be thankful for that. Anybody that says your video promote suicide can talk to me and I'll tell them to go fuck themselves. 

Make of that what you will. 

Thanks for your feedback and support.

[RMQualtrough]

2 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

Hahaha~

But even the philosophical and intellectual boil down to naught but realizations at the end of the day

It's good though that you're considering balance.

From your human POV, when "Leo" realizes Mahasamadhi, "Leo" ends "his life" while "other life" (including yours) continues.

When YOU YOURSELF realize Mahasamadhi, all beings Mahasamadhi along with you and the universe as we know it literally ends.

These can both be simultaneously True

See that's what I thought, although Leo's latest reply seems to suggest the other way. I cannot figure if he meant he almost realized it in the same way prior Yogis did (where there is still an ego me typing now despite the act), or if this is a new and even further thing he means where, effectively, not any thing in the entirety of existence has ego anymore.

It is a very tricky and confusing thing and I've never been THAT deep, so "ELI5" type language helps outline the idea.

@Leo Gura Have you ever seen the movie "Lucy"? It's a Hollywood blockbuster. Gradually through the film the character is pulled towards singularity.

Right at the very end she realizes "Samadhi" and her physical body vanishes. The other characters ask where she has gone, and receive a text saying "I am everywhere".

It's a sci-fi movie not spiritual, but clearly influenced by nondual teachings. Maybe you will enjoy it.

P.S. Thanks for your suggestion on those videos. That is easier to understand now.

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Fran11 said:

But spend at least a year seriously doing something like Imagination Develepement and tell me if your Consiousness doesn't become progressively more Psychedelic-like.

Well, actually, I'm experimenting with imagination techniques with the hopes of finding some good ones.

You also have to keep in mind that my work is always unfolding and new stuff is being researched.

People have this desire to "be done" with it all, and they then tend to treat my teachings as such too. Whereas I treat the whole thing as a very long exploration and journey. But people love to bash the spiritual journey and just say, "Be done and stop seeking, if you're still seeking then you are doing it wrong." This is ridiculous position to take because I'm not in the business of merely reaching enlightened ASAP. I'm in the business of exploring new ways of doing spirituality.

A lot of people just don't understand this idea of pioneering something new. They like to dismiss it as ego.

[Leo Gura]

@Preety_India Please hold back from getting into intense debates over such things.

I know your heart is in the right place. You want to defend Actualized.org. But keep in mind that actively confronting someone like Adeptus who has strong views via the comment section will tend to pour fuel on the fire.

[Proserpina]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, actually, I'm experimenting with imagination techniques with the hopes of finding some good ones.

You also have to keep in mind that my work is always unfolding and new stuff is being researched.

People have this desire to "be done" with it all, and they then to treat my teachings as such too. Whereas I treat the whole thing as a very long exploration and journey. But people love to bash the spiritual journey and just say, "Be done and stop seeking, if you're still seeking then you are doing it wrong." This is ridiculous position to take.

Love your work.  I don't believe you or actualized should be blamed for the recent event.  If you look at statistics, certain personality types are inclined to certain actions and will use any means to get there. 

Mildly off-topic but could you expand on these 'imagination techniques' exactly?

Edited May 21, 2021 by Proserpina

[Roy]

2 hours ago, lmfao said:

If I was Leo, I would find the what you're advocating for me to do to be disingenuous, and needlessly. Why would I only advocate people only take them with a sitter when I think people can also take responsibility for doing them privately? That's just lying.

It doesn't matter if a lot of those people can take them alone and be fine, it's about being extra safe and idiot proofing the process of it so the bad apples don't ruin it for everyone else. It's exactly this kind of caution that will be necessary to move the legalization along and get it more culturally accepted.

If you keep encouraging people to consume extremely powerful substances alone, most people will be fine, but eventually with enough people taking them, some who aren't quite as thorough in their safety will jump off the 6th floor of their apartment building.

We can't just casually dismiss it every time and say, "oh there is always some idiot outlier like that". It's not acceptable. We need to do everything possible to minimize even those fringe cases.

The least you could do is just simply encourage people (mostly newbies) to do them with a partner.

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Roy

[Forestluv]

58 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It does amuse me that you guys need a video from me to tell you why not jump off a bridge.

How about the video: Why you shouldn't stick your dick in a woodchipper?

I think some of you guys need it.

I wouldn't a PR nightmare next month when your mom tells me that you lost your dick in a spiritual woodchipper ritual.

Please keep in mind that we recently lost a beloved member of our actualized community and some of us are still grieving his death. As well, his family members have been visiting the forum. 

[Sempiternity]

I greatly appreciate what Leo and Actualized.org are doing. Leo is an explorer of the ultimate frontier, the endless depths of consciousness. Leo may have reached levels of consciousness that no other has ever done and been able to talk about it. To me he is doing the most important work of anyone one the planet. What's more important than this work? I am here for his more existential videos, like last weeks, and not too interested in the more practical videos. So Leo, please keep going with higher and higher teachings. To anyone on the forum that doesn't like his teachings, please leave so we can continue to enjoy Leo's work in peace. 

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

Mildly off-topic but could you expand on these 'imagination techniques' exactly?

No, because I am still in the rough stages of researching that. Nothing solid to report yet.

[Fran11]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, actually, I'm experimenting with imagination techniques with the hopes of finding some good ones.

Love to hear that.

I've doing it for seven years now, so feel free to PM if you want.

I'm also very experimental with my Spiritual practices, but Imagination Developement is what I'm most hardcore about, becouse it has been ridiculously effective for me.

You'll probably be suprised to find out that just like with Psychedelics, you can keep developing it forever. At a much slower rate of course, but enough to make your baseline radically higher in a couple years.

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You also have to keep in mind that my work is always unfolding and new stuff is being researched.

People have this desire to "be done" with it all, and they then to treat my teachings as such too. Whereas I treat the whole thing as a very long exploration and journey. But people love to bash the spiritual journey and just say, "Be done and stop seeking, if you're still seeking then you are doing it wrong." This is ridiculous position to take.

That's how it should be