Major Discussion Of Actualized.org Teachings & The Future

[RMQualtrough]

14 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

Nope!

You gave that thought-story "realness" RIGHT NOW through sheer Imagination.

"I am Imagining and constructing RIGHT NOW the story that Yogis prior went through with Mahasamadhi, and that they died, and that I was unaffected, and this story feels like reality to me."

^This is (more in line with) what's actual.

When "you" "die" - and get blasted into Ultimate Infinity - the whole world goes with You, period.

As though the relative never even existed.

That is what it means to Be Absolute.

---

Of course, though, any of us on this forum speaking about these concepts now are still attached to this dream of life - many of us have briefly recognized the Absolute but are still largely hypnotized into imagining that the relative exists.

Insofar as we continue to imagine that the relative exists - it will appear as so.

I don't recommend getting too sucked into these words though. These words are bottomless and hollow. I am describing that which cannot be described when saying "The Absolute."

One day you will know when you Know. Until then, take it easy and enjoy the relativity

I am likely completely finished with psychedelics, last time I used I got utterly raped. From here my interest is philosophical and intellectual, no more realizations.

I had nondual experiences and "no-self", as I understand from Leo on another thread he thinks no-self is also prevalent on Salvia. That is also something I used often. But the DMT triggered nonduality trips were mostly different.

But anyway, this is what I am curious on... If you were talking to a 5 year old boy in a way they could understand instead of technical wording and absolute reality type stuff, when he says he would take the universe with him, to a 5 year old with no grasp on nonduality, does that mean their life ends with Leo's? Or does Leo end and other life continue?

Being hung up on absolutism would be like "there are no others" but that is not what I am trying to figure he meant.

[something_else]

5 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Leo Gura you do what serves you best in preserving your work. 

You need to set boundaries.

Don't care about people who say you're a cult leader.

Setting boundaries is not creating a cult.

Don't fall for that gaslighting.

Do how you did it with Connor 

Have a discussion with Adeptus Psychonautica and tell him to stop  and give an ultimatum to people who regularly trash Actualized Org

Set your boundaries really strong so people like Connor and Adeptus cannot abuse your work .

 

 

All of this just sounds really culty. I don't think the solution to the cult PR problem is this kind of aggression because that's exactly what people expect from cults.

People don't expect level headedness from cults. So if they see the majority of people associated with actualized come across as level-headed and open then maybe that would help with the whole cult thing

Edited May 21, 2021 by something_else

[RMQualtrough]

4 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Leo Gura you do what serves you best in preserving your work. 

You need to set boundaries.

Don't care about people who say you're a cult leader.

Setting boundaries is not creating a cult.

Don't fall for that gaslighting.

Do how you did it with Connor 

Have a discussion with Adeptus Psychonautica and tell him to stop  and give an ultimatum to people who regularly trash Actualized Org

Set your boundaries really strong so people like Connor and Adeptus cannot abuse your work .

 

 

Adeptus is reasonable. Likely if he is misconstruing things, it is a genuine misunderstanding.

He would probably gladly talk to Leo on YouTube on a video.

[SpiritualAwakening]

7 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Set your boundaries really strong so people like Connor and Adeptus cannot abuse your work .

Adeptus is a fool, I've had a 1on1 voice call with him to see what his perception is based on and my conclusions are the man has been abusing psychedelics for the past 25 years only for the sake of using psychedelics (that's what his whole community is about). No serious work whatsoever. It's even more fair to say that his community is a cult rather than Actualized.

SIDENOTE: I never said I was from Actualized

Edited May 21, 2021 by SpiritualAwakening

[SpiritualAwakening]

@Leo Gura No matter how much you change your teachings for the benefit of yourself (Actualized's name), people will always find a away to demonize the work. It won't matter what you'll change, it will never be rainbows & cupcakes to the outside world.

[Roy]

I don't generally have any gripes or issues with the teachings. I think they speak for themselves and those who want to derive benefit from them will do so. However I will bring up a few things which I believe are legitimate points;

- The Actualized.Org "style" has been systematically set up in a way that has lent a lot of potential to it behaving like an echo chamber. It's not awful in this regard, but it has some of those aspects. It's good you finally loosened the reigns and started doing interviews again, better late than never, but definitely late. I'm not saying we need to open the floodgates, but there needs to be an opportunity for a healthy level of public feedback. You know enough about how to be careful and precise about this not to fall into the ego traps of online persona wars, so you shouldn't be so consumed by hesitation.

- There needs to be a complete and utter advocation of people ONLY taking psychedelics when they have a "sitter" with them. It's incredibly reckless to suggest people take any of these substances alone. If they are responsible and skilled enough to take them on their own they will do that under their own volition. I think it's just sensible for you as a public advocate of these substances to make people take that principle seriously. NEVER take psychedelics/drugs/substances alone. NEVER. Let people breed experience with them by ensuring a safe environment.

- I've also seen you be way to callous in some responses to people looking for help with particular issues, by just reckless hip-firing statements like, "Just take some psychedelics and see what happens to X problem you have." People are looking for answers and see you @Leo Gura as an authority figure, so while another solution might be appropriate, they might see your statements and blindly assume they need to take psychedelics. Which could turn out to be a disaster for them and whatever issue they have. It could also work though. I'd say simply exercise more caution in giving these suggestions.

Thanks for everything you do. As I said this is all I really have to say. Keep up the good work.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Roy

[RendHeaven]

14 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Leo Gura  the problem with you is that you're scared

Lmao oh honey

[RendHeaven]

17 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

I am likely completely finished with psychedelics, last time I used I got utterly raped. From here my interest is philosophical and intellectual, no more realizations.

Hahaha~

But even the philosophical and intellectual boil down to naught but realizations at the end of the day

It's good though that you're considering balance.

18 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

But anyway, this is what I am curious on... If you were talking to a 5 year old boy in a way they could understand instead of technical wording and absolute reality type stuff, when he says he would take the universe with him, to a 5 year old with no grasp on nonduality, does that mean their life ends with Leo's? Or does Leo end and other life continue?

Being hung up on absolutism would be like "there are no others" but that is not what I am trying to figure he meant.

From your human POV, when "Leo" realizes Mahasamadhi, "Leo" ends "his life" while "other life" (including yours) continues.

When YOU YOURSELF realize Mahasamadhi, all beings Mahasamadhi along with you and the universe as we know it literally ends.

These can both be simultaneously True

[something_else]

2 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@AdeptusPsychonautica are you scared of having a free and fair discussion with Leo?

Leo has opened the thread for people to air their grievances.

Instead of calling Leo the cult leader in your videos, why don't you have a discussion with him right here on this thread instead of hiding behind a screen.

Hiding behind a screen and attacking Leo is pretty easy right ?

Stop trashing Leo's work to gain following on your channel.

If you come from a place of good faith then have a proper discussion with Leo before making videos and demonizing his work 

I also called you out on your channel 

 

I know you feel passionately about this. But maybe calm down a little. Being so aggressive helps no one. Pressuring people to debate or fight helps no one. Discussions like that will be more valuable if they arise naturally anyway

[Mu_]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Everything I read on this forum is feedback. But of course that doesn't mean I agree with it necessarily or that I will adopt it.

But yes, this thread is very much about feedback and I will certainly use the lessons here to make future decisions about how to best structure my teachings and how to deal with people in general.

This is not just a thread to cull people out who are critics.

I am open to criticism. That is nothing new to me. I get criticized every day. Any healthy community must be open to feedback and criticism. The issue here is that I see A LOT of people fundamentally misunderstanding my teachings. Either they don't watch the videos or they just got some twisted ideas about what is said. It is those misunderstandings that I want to squash.

My first responsibility is to make sure that my teachings are correctly understood and not misunderstood. So that's the purpose behind what I'm doing now. I see way to much misunderstanding and that frustrates me. But I'll deal with it.

Hey Leo,

Since your wanting critiques of how to perhaps take a healthier step moving forward and improve how your work is understood, I'll put two things forward even if you are already attempting or doing these in some degree, and I know you are the little I've seen over the few years I've been here.

 

1.  How do you want your work to be interpreted?  And are you doing your best to do that in regards to the average emotional and spiritual development of your audience (perhaps thats not your goal and while you've made mention of this in your video's over the last 2? years, everyone still going to have their own idea of how advance they are and are going to listen/believe anyways).  Can your average audience digest this stuff and if not, how are the words you choose and message your trying to get across going to be registered as.  And by knowing this or getting a feel for this, how would you maybe rephrase some aspects or spend more time explaining this stuff or choose different words. 

2.  You seem to have a clear understanding of who you are as a person and how you come off, and acknowledge how a great deal of this is your own authenticity with some additional enjoyment of being perhaps a little provocative.  You also have a good heart and care a lot.  That said, lots of people like to emulate those they regard as their teacher or look up to.  Do you want those emulations which are easy to outwardly replicate, but not rooted in compassion and wisdom that you have gained over the years.  Like a member trying to be  stern and blunt, without an actual heart underneath it.  I'd guess some of the way people relate with one another here is partially happening through emulation.

 

[lmfao]

@Roy That was some good feedback 

39 minutes ago, Roy said:

- The Actualized.Org "style" has been systematically set up in a way that has lent a lot of potential to it behaving like an echo chamber. It's not awful in this regard, but it has some of those aspects. It's good you finally loosened the reigns and started doing interviews again, better late than never, but definitely late. I'm not saying we need to open the floodgates, but there needs to be an opportunity for a healthy level of public feedback. You know enough about how to be careful and precise about this not to fall into the ego traps of online persona wars, so you shouldn't be so consumed by hesitation.

Echo Chamber aspects are kinda inevitable, happens with any group of people.

I'm too lazy to explain and find the words, but this will loop back around to previous discussions had about moderation and the locking of threads on this forum, if you can see the link between what you said and that.
I don't see people complaining about moderation so much anymore in threads? Whatever the reason for that is 

It's quite a complex issue. I remember arguing against what was going on, but at the end of the day I made my peace with it since it's Leo's place, moderation is tricky. I just be as I am and whatever happens happens. 

39 minutes ago, Roy said:

There needs to be a complete and utter advocation of people ONLY taking psychedelics when they have a "sitter" with them. It's incredibly reckless to suggest people take any of these substances alone. If they are responsible and skilled enough to take them on their own they will do that under their own volition. I think it's just sensible for you as a public advocate of these substances to make people take that principle seriously. NEVER take psychedelics/drugs/substances alone. NEVER. Let people breed experience with them by ensuring a safe environment.

If I was Leo, I would find the what you're advocating for me to do to be disingenuous, and needlessly. Why would I only advocate people only take them with a sitter when I think people can also take responsibility for doing them privately? That's just lying.

Edited May 21, 2021 by lmfao

[Mafortu]

The path to enlightenment is, more often than not, a magnet to wounded souls that want to end their suffering, and a lot of what is being echoed here can lead to very dangerous rabbit holes. The recent tragedy was bound to happen and is bound to happen again in the future.

Everyone here should be more mindful with their advice, considering the nature of the subject matter its extremely easy to misinterpret someone's thoughts and warp them in ungodly shapes.

[Gili Trawangan]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I will be asking people who have fundamental disagreements or misunderstanding of my teachings to leave the forum and stop watching my teachings. This includes not only just like if you think my work is dangerous or promotes suicide or other kinds of human suffering, but also if you disagree with core things I teach about Love, Truth, Consciousness, levels of awakening, psychedelics, and God-realization. If you have fundamental disagreements on these points, voice them out, say your peace, and then we'll see if you are suitable to stay on this forum. I have no interest in teaching people or dealing with people who are not interested in learn about Love, God, Consciousness, psychedelics, levels of awakening, etc. If you don't believe in such things it is really a waste of your time to be here. That's simply not what this community is about.

The bottom line is this: if you do not respect the things I teach at some fundamental level, then let me save you some serious time: stop following my work. This community is fundamentally built around my teachings. If you do not feel my teachings are valid in some deep sense, then you simply should not be here.

Honestly, I see a big problem here. I understand that the recent events are challenging, but I would take a step back and think about it, calmly.

I actually think your most important teachings are not God/Love, etc. Because God/Love cannot really be taught, it can only be realized. Your most important teachings are on the nature of the human mind, how to find out what's true, epistemology and self-deception, etc. That's what helped me the most to find out what's true, for myself. And here you're closing doors to critical thinking. You even say: "If you don't believe in such things it is really a waste of your time to be here". I know it's not your intention, but that makes it sound like this is borderline a religious group, or, at best, having a high likelihood of turning into an echo-chamber. It's your right to do that, but it will make this forum worse in the long run. One of the main strengths of the forum is precisely that a lot of members here are independent thinkers. They're not following you blindly, they're questioning everything, including your teachings. This is a positive thing, and probably being taken for granted at this time.

Like I said in the thread about SoonHei, I don't think your more advanced teachings are ripe yet, mostly because of the delivery, but it would be a shame if because of what happened you now started to simply ban members for having a different point of view. Some people might start self-censoring just so they can stay. Even though I don't really participate all that much, I will always speak my mind, so I'm ready to be invited to leave if this really ends up being your decision.

There is something that is often missing from us here, probably because most of us here are still quite young. It's humility. This word keeps popping up in my mind, we need more of it here. Infinity cannot be contained, and can always find a way to pull the rug from under you. Just when you think you've got something, infinity will tend to humble you. I think this is a lesson to be learned not just once, but again and again - I certainly keep forgetting as well.

I hope that, with time, as things quiet down, this whole idea will be reconsidered.

[Leo Gura]

Good! I'm happy to clarify all these genuine questions!

1 hour ago, Consept said:

This is a comment I was going to leave on the other thread in response to Leo's reaction to video @kieranperez posted. It's directed at Leo but anyone who feels to respond feel free 

@LeoGura I thought the discussion was open and as @Forestluv said they came at with good faith. I do agree that they misunderstood some of your pointers and teachings, however they made valid points about some of the culture on the forum which has been brought up before in terms of turning non duality into an almost religious rhetoric.

I fundamentally disagree with this characterization of my work and rhetoric.

There is nothing religious or dogmatic about what I teach. Just the opposite.

In that video, both people were speaking from ego, neither person was even remotely close to having a deep grasp of spirituality, and they deep and fundamentally mischaracterized my work, Spiral Dynamics, levels and facets of awakening, and so many other points that it's hard to list all the ignorance in that video.

That video is precisely ignorance which misleads people.

Nothing on this forum is about a competition for who is more awake. This is completely antithetical to my teachings. Nobody here is in competition for being most woke or most spiritual or most Spirally developed. All that is pure projection and strawmanning.

I talk about higher and higher levels of awakening only for one simple reason: That's precisely my experience of the spiritual path. And any serious spiritual seeker will relate. It has nothing to do with ego or wanting to escape the present moment.

The things said in that video are so fallacious and slanderous that I would be laughing had it no influence on a gullible audience.

I'm honestly baffled how Adeptus can do so much psychedelics -- and run an entire psychedelic channel -- yet be so clueless about spiritual work and what the psychedelic experiences mean.

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

One of my fundamental, perceived, disagreements is your dismissal of manual practices like meditation. Not that you dismiss them per-say, but that you significantly down play their effectiveness due to a personal lack of success and label the people who have serious success with them as “spiritually gifted.”

Yes, good.

You are right. I do dismiss manual practices for several valid reasons which I have explained in the past:

1) Most people will not be successful with them. The factual evidence of this is very clear. Almost no meditators are deeply awake or even have a clue what God or Truth is.

2) Most people are not motivated enough to do them. And part of my job is motivation.

3) Even those people who do years of manual practice will almost certainly not reach the levels of consciousness that I speak of. This is also borne out by factual evidence and real-world experience talking to meditators.

4) For meditation to be effective is requires 100s of continuous practice. This is very hardcore and most people don't have the time for that.

5) There are some people who can meditate with little effort and get huge results quickly. Such people are rare and spiritually gifted without even realizing it.

These are actually profoundly important points for any newbie spiritual seeker to understand.

And finally, I still believe manual practices are important and even necessary. But for them to be effective people first need to be exposed to mystical experiences, otherwise there will be no motivation or even an idea of what meditation is for.

Quote

Id appreciate the opportunity to share my views on this in the future though without being labeled as a contrarian and asked to leave. Ive been working on a series of posts which may fall into the categorization of contradicting your teachings. Not in the ultimate nature of truth, but in the accessibility of truth regarding states of consciousness.

Where does the line get drawn with too much contradiction? Having a community providing some level of criticism is healthy not only for you personally, but for the overall health of Actualized.org

Well, there are no clear lines. That's the challenge we're now in.

I am going to be lenient and try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I am very mindful of not just banned anyone I disagree with for personal reasons. And I am mindful of the problem of creating a echo-chamber. That's not what I'm aiming for. I do not want a bunch of yes-men here kissing my ass.

But we must have some fundamental alignment or fit. Some people here are obviously very out of alignment to the point that I don't even know why they want to be here.

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

   I'll ask this now, and maybe I'll ask a better worded question later as it's late. How about those that are newbie to intermediate?

No problem. Newbies and intermediates fully welcome.

You don't have to believe anything I say. Explore the spiritual terrain for yourself and discover what's true. That's the beauty of this work. The truth does not depend on Leo at all. All I'm doing talking about things you could one day become conscious of if you work at it.

Quote

   Also wondering, for those with stronger disagreements, are they allowed to visit later in the future, if their current development doesn't let them be as open to the highest teachings? 

A banned account does not get unbanned.

I don't know what disagreements you are referring to.

Quote

   Also a good time to ask about the future of the forum?

The future of the forum is unknown and being figured out right here.

1 hour ago, something_else said:

@Leo Gura

The only point that keeps cropping up in my mind that I think is worth sharing here is on the nature of progression. It's undoutable that you did a lot of so called 'traditional' spiritual work regarding non-duality and no-self and so on before you started giving the God-realisation and Love teachings.

Do you think that for anyone else who also wishes to explore God-realisation and Love, these other steps are important grounding work before one can tackle more advanced teachings?

Of course it's important.

Much of the stuff I teach is grounding work. I am all for doing the basics.

1 hour ago, RMQualtrough said:

When you said the universe would end, and discussed Mahasamadhi, I could not quite tell whether you were talking in a relative or absolute sense... That is, by "take everyone with you" etc. is that the relative sense? Like Yogis prior who went through with the act, they died and we are still here. You also spoke of final preparations... So did you expect relative experience would continue or all subjevtivity to cut out. Essentially from my relative experience I too would have died and ceased to exist?

In that case I meant it in the most Absolute and final and radical sense. In other words, literally, nothing would remain. No, you're not still here at that point. Mahasamadhi does not mean you're still here.

No material experience at all would continue. It's effectively death, for real. You don't cease to exist, you become an infinitely conscious singularity.

WARNING: I do not recommend Mahasamadhi for any of you. It is to radical and you will kill yourself if you go down that road. And I don't mean merely ego-death. Mahasamadhi is not something anyone here should be thinking about. And it's also not what I teach. I spoke of it in that episode simply because I got close to it personally and I wanted to share it as a cautionary tale with you. It was not a pleasant experience for me to get that close.

Quote

I am also a bit confused about what is meant by Love. I heard you talk about it as understanding. Also though mention loving family etc which is something I associate with the emotion of love that we feel... Are you able to explain love in an "Explain Like I'm 5" manner?

Cheers!

I have explained Love a lot in my videos: What Is Love - Part 1 & 2, and elsewhere. Watch those again.

Love is not merely understanding. Love is all the physical such that exists. Love is also the realization that there is not difference whatsoever between anything. When you realize that there is literally no difference between an orgasm and cancer, you will realize what Love is.

1 hour ago, Megan Alecia said:

I'd like to see more substance and less platitudes and ego games.

Amen. That's exactly what I love: substance.

Quote

Maybe you could clarify what kind of culture/values does Actualized.org stand for. It all seems unclear and vague in actual fact.

Some of that is outlined in the Forum Guidelines. But I would have to think about it some more in light of recent events. I might draft up a list in the future and post it for you guys so we are on the same page.

Quote

You could create an echo chamber here and banish all critiques of your work, let's see how that turns out.

That's a delicate balancing act. I want to avoid that.

1 hour ago, 4201 said:

I don't think you've ever directly promoted suicide in any of your videos, but we have to admit that forum Leo is not the same as youtube Leo. You fell for fallacies that are very similar to what sent SoonHei off a bridge.

Source: 

Consider the possibilities that these are not fallacies but actually high consciousness.

If you become conscious enough, you will literally be so conscious that you won't see any difference between licking ice cream and licking a hot stove. These radical levels of consciousness are obviously dangerous, and I have warned people about it in the past in my discussions of psychedelic dangers.

How do you supposed a Tibetan monk does self-immolation? He literally is so conscious that he cannot tell the difference between setting himself on fire vs otherwise. The difference between pleasure and pain is ultimately imaginary. This very much fucks with your survival. You see? After you deconstruct pain, you have to be careful and wise not to do something stupid like stick your hand in woodchipper, because pain and fear won't be holding you back any more.

Quote

This idea that you can be so conscious that harming the body doesn't matter is exactly what SoonHei believed and what lead him to die.

Yes, but you're overlooking the obvious: it's true.

It is true that harming the body does not matter after a certain level of consciousness is reached. This is nothing new that I invented. This is part of age-old mystical teachings. Yogis train to sleep on a bed of nails. That's what strong determination sitting is about. Those sits are not good for the body, but the meditator does not care.

Just because SoonHei decided to jump off a bridge in a tragic way does not in any way change what is true about pain and consciousness. He simply abused that truth. Truth itself makes no prescriptions. How you use the truth requires intelligence, wisdom, responsibility, and consciousness.

Quote

If this current situation pisses you off, why not jump off a bridge?

The truth is that there is no reason to not jump off a bridge. You are free to do whatever you want. If you want to jump off a bridge, no one can stop you and even your own mind may not stop you.

The reality is that most people don't jump off bridges because they fear death and because they enjoy life. As soon as you stop fearing life and stop enjoying life, you will probably jump off a bridge. So I recommend you enjoy life more. If you really love life, you will stick around to enjoy it. And if you don't, no force on Earth will stop you from killing yourself.

You should note, all of my teachings are life-affirming. I talk about having a passion for life and building a great life and loving life. I do not talk about life as something to run away from or escape. Life is beautiful. So stick around.

Quote

I think a video debunking this idea would be great IMO. The problem isn't really whether or not you think we should do it or whether or not you would actually do it, but the idea of it being idealized in some sort of high-consciousness only thing.

The human body does limit your consciousness.

You guys seem to confuse two things: 1) Statements of truth, vs 2) What you should do about it.

Many things are true but that does say anything about what you ought to do.

If a yogi tells you that the body limits consciousness, that does not mean you should kill the body.

The body has certain fundamental limits. What you do about it up to you. I have never said to harm the body as a means of raising consciousness. Harming the body NEVER been a valid Actualized.org technique. Look through all of my teaching and one example where I told you that harming the body is valid technique which I endorse. I have obviously never said that because it would deeply irresponsible.

[4201]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Consider the possibilities that these are not fallacies but actually high consciousness.

If you become conscious enough, you will literally be so conscious that you won't see any difference between licking ice cream and licking a hot stove. These radical levels of consciousness are obviously dangerous, and I have warned people about it in the past in my discussions of psychedelic dangers.

How do you supposed a Tibetan monk does self-immolation? He literally is so conscious that he cannot tell the difference between setting himself on fire vs otherwise. The difference between pleasure and pain is ultimately imaginary. This very much fucks with your survival. You see? After you deconstruct pain, you have to be careful and wise not to do something stupid like stick your hand in woodchipper, because pain and fear won't be holding you back any more.

Yes, but you're overlooking the obvious: it's true.

It is true that harming the body does not matter after a certain level of consciousness is reached. This is nothing new that I invented. This is part of age-old mystical teachings. Yogis train to sleep on a bed of nails. That's what strong determination sitting is about. Those sits are not good for the body, but the meditator does not care.

Just because SoonHei decided to jump off a bridge in a tragic way does not in any way change what is true about pain and consciousness. He simply abused that truth. Truth itself makes no prescriptions. How you use the truth requires intelligence, wisdom, responsibility, and consciousness.

The truth is that there is no reason to not jump off a bridge. You are free to do whatever you want. If you want to jump off a bridge, no one can stop you and even your own mind may not stop you.

The reality is that most people don't jump off bridges because they fear death and because they enjoy life. As soon as you stop fearing life and stop enjoying life, you will probably jump off a bridge. So I recommend you enjoy life more. If you really love life, you will stick around to enjoy it. And if you don't, no force on Earth will stop you from killing yourself.

You should note, all of my teachings are life-affirming. I talk about having a passion for life and building a great life and loving life. I do not talk about life as something to run away from or escape. Life is beautiful. So stick around.

The human body does limit your consciousness.

You guys seem to confuse two things: 1) Statements of truth, vs 2) What you should do about it.

Many things are true but that does say anything about what you ought to do.

If a yogi tells you that the body limits consciousness, that does not mean you should kill the body.

The body has certain fundamental limits. What you do about it up to you. I have never said to harm the body as a means of raising consciousness.

I essentially agree with you. Your explanation is quite good, although I do think that the limits of the body are imagined, thought to be, not actual but that's my opinion.

My point is that, a video titled something like "Why not jump off a bridge?" in which you clear out all those misconceptions (just like you did in this message) would help a lot. It would help with all of the suicidals in the serious-emotional-help section who think killing their body will make them happy and it would help with your "PR issue".

PS: I don't think we should focus on the hate and PR issues. People are going to react and who cares? Keep doing your work in a loving way, clear any misconceptions and everything is fine. I think focusing on them just makes them bigger, fuels the drama.

[herghly]

I feel compelled to leave a comment. @Leo Gura You've been a great teacher to me. And I've always felt you give plenty of warnings and guidance for how to do the work safely. 

I've gone down the path of using psychedelics for spiritual development. I would of never done this without your videos and I always use these substances safely, which also means I do MORE research than just watching actualized.org  (leo recommends this too!) 

Much of this criticism pointed towards Leo is just bullshit.

You can extend this quote from Terence Mckena "Psychedelics don't work on stupid people" to also include spiritual work in general.

Edited May 21, 2021 by herghly

[Haumea2018]

I guess we're entering into the Jihad/Holy War phase of the actualized.org religion where all the heretics are expelled and the true believers are mobilized for P.R. warfare against the naysayers and unbelievers.

Are you following the Muhammed playbook here, Leo?  OK, if you feel froggy, leap, what can one say?

I will observe all of this with great amusement.  I'm genuinely curious to see whether you can pull it off.  

 

[Proserpina]

@Haumea2018 lol

[herghly]

17 minutes ago, Haumea2018 said:

I guess we're entering into the Jihad/Holy War phase of the actualized.org religion where all the heretics are expelled and the true believers are mobilized for P.R. warfare against the naysayers and unbelievers.

Are you following the Muhammed playbook here, Leo?  OK, if you feel froggy, leap, what can one say?

I will observe all of this with great amusement.  I'm genuinely curious to see whether you can pull it off.  

 

LOL this made my day

[Leo Gura]

51 minutes ago, 4201 said:

I do think that the limits of the body are imagined, thought to be, not actual but that's my opinion.

Yes, they are imagined. But you are stuck and limited by that imagination and you have very little power to unimagine it.

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My point is that, a video titled something like "Why not jump off a bridge?" in which you clear out all those misconceptions (just like you did in this message) would help a lot. It would help with all of the suicidals in the serious-emotional-help section who think killing their body will make them happy and it would help with your "PR issue".

I plan to release a video addressing this incident.

It does amuse me that you guys need a video from me to tell you why not jump off a bridge.

How about the video: Why you shouldn't stick your dick in a woodchipper?

I think some of you guys need it.

I wouldn't a PR nightmare next month when your mom tells me that you lost your dick in a spiritual woodchipper ritual.

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PS: I don't think we should focus on the hate and PR issues. People are going to react and who cares? Keep doing your work in a loving way, clear any misconceptions and everything is fine. I think focusing on them just makes them bigger, fuels the drama.

Clearing misconceptions is exactly my goal. But any time I try to clear a misconception it will be framed as drama, defensiveness, ego, etc. It's just all the classic smear-merchant stuff. None of this is new. This how politics works. When someone is a threat to you, you smear them. Oldest ego trick in the book.

29 minutes ago, Haumea2018 said:

I guess we're entering into the Jihad/Holy War phase of the actualized.org religion where all the heretics are expelled and the true believers are mobilized for P.R. warfare against the naysayers and unbelievers.

Are you following the Muhammed playbook here, Leo?  OK, if you feel froggy, leap, what can one say?

I will observe all of this with great amusement.  I'm genuinely curious to see whether you can pull it off. 

Your ass has been on the chopping block for a long time. Don't think I haven't been watching you, sneaky devil.