Why Trust Direct Experience?

[samijiben]

Leo says learn through direct experience, and yet direct experience can (and often does) mislead people. Take the heliocentric model of the universe, in which a flat earth, along with every other object floating in space, orbits around the sun; extensively proven wrong millennia ago. My point is, it appears as though the Earth is flat: we directly experience it as such. Yet it remains not the case. So, why trust direct experience?

[BipolarGrowth]

Lmao.. here are my rough notes I was going to use to make a post/video that I wrote today 

 

Direct Experience is NOT reliable

Clarify that any conclusions are unreliable. The experience itself is perfectly fine. As soon as you add labels, you’re almost guaranteed to miss something. 

I.E. Leo says you’re God and 5-MeO will take you there. 

You try 5-MeO while being both consciously and subconsciously primed to have an awakening that you are God. 

???

I’M GOD!!!! 

 

This isn’t reliable just because the insight can be reproduced. If Christians didn’t have a stigma on psychedelics, you could teach them for a few years that Jesus can be accessed directly through intense prayer and taking psychedelics. Do you think the instances of seeing Jesus on psychedelics would be higher or lower in this crowd compared to the general population? 

 

Psychedelics can easily be used for mind control, brainwashing, and misinformation. They make the mind malleable. This is why it’s so important to work against making this stuff an ideology. 

[Consilience]

5 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Direct Experience is NOT reliable

Direct experience is literally all you have. It is literally the ONLY reliable quality of your reality. 

[Consilience]

10 minutes ago, samijiben said:

My point is, it appears as though the Earth is flat: we directly experience it as such. Yet it remains not the case. So, why trust direct experience?

Your direct experience would tell you that taking on the belief that the Earth is flat is a belief you've created out of a perceptive experience and therefore, like all beliefs, is false and true at some level. Yet you must use your direct experience to come to this discernment. The problem with people believing in their own bullshit is that they've actually not dug deeply enough into their direct experience. I.e. the problem isn't direct experience, it's a misunderstanding of the nature of direct experience. 

[Leo Gura]

@samijiben You will understand when you realize that if you don't trust direct experience, there's nothing you can say or do at all.

You are overlooking the fact that all of your reason, thinking, imagining, math, logic, science, and doubt IS direct experience.

If you truly doubt direct experience, then you cannot even complete the thought: "What if direct experience is false?" because that thought is direct experience and therefore your own thoughts annihilate themselves before they even start forming.

[charlie cho]

if you know this.... I don't know.

Many people's accounts of the same experience is different. When a police detective consults a few different people to give them their experience with an incident, there is an 90% chance they are all different. They are not lying (at least most of them). It's just our senses are flawed. 

What our direct experience of reality is mostly sensual. Seeing, hearing, smelling, feeling physically, tasting. And our thoughts reflect exactly these five senses. We can only think about what we saw - imagination. We can remember the smell of the christmas dinners our grandmother has cooked for us. You are not there, but you can still smell it even after your grandmother has died. You can still feel the time your brother has hugged you when you were a child even when it has been 5 years it had happened. Lastly, you can also remember the time when the girl has rejected you in high school, and you were thinking how you can hurt her for rejecting you. You can remember clearly not only of how beautiful she looked, but also what you were feeling emotionally and thinking. Yes, you can think about the thoughts you had in the past. It does not limit to just the senses you have but to the thoughts you have, so we could say our direct experience can stem upto seeing, hearing, smelling, feeling, tasting, and thinking. 

This holds true also with the things you are currently seeing now. You are reading my post on your computer screen. You are feeling the computer keyboard on your hands ready to reply. You can also feel the thoughts that are in your head. Maybe you are confused, maybe you agree. 

Do you think the computer screen you are seeing, the feeling of your keyboard are different from what you will see in your memories a few days after? Both are of the mind. Whether you are currently feeling the keyboard or you are feeling the keyboard as a memory tomorrow.

Right now, it's the same with this. Read carefully. When you are stabbed in the stomach with a knife in your dreams, you feel it, no? When you have sex in your dreams, you feel it no? There is no difference between that and when you actually have sex with your girl. No difference whatsoever. You both feel it. It's the mind. Your brain is sending signals that it is being stabbed. Your brain is sending signals that it is making love to a girl. 

Direct experience can only be limited to sensuality and thought. In other words, direct experience can only be a dream. Therefore, you hear many mystics like Krishnamurti and OSHO say Truth cannot be experienced. You know why? Because Truth cannot be seen with the eye, heard with the ear, smelled with the nose, tasted through the tongue, felt with the hand, or even thought of with imagination or words. (Of course, Truth can be seen, tasted, smelled, or heard but what I emphasize here is that it cannot be experienced with our senses or thoughts) 

So... yes, it can be experienced, but it can only be experienced through Truth, not our bodies, our senses. 

Have you heard of "the observer is the observed." 

This means...

Truth has seen the truth. the Consciousness has seen itself. God has seen itself. Your true self has seen itself. the Universe has seen the Universe. 

Because the universe only exists as the universe. There is no other thing, there is no other dimension. There are not mutliple universes like Brian Greene proposes. It's just one Universe that is infinite. An infinite amount of sand boxes within a sand box. That is the universe. 

How can Truth experience? Do you think the universe is dead? No, thought is dead, your memories are dead, it is not alive. What only is alive is the universe. The universe is consciousness and energy, energy and light. And that light sees the light. The consciousness sees the light. In fact, no other experience exists other than that. Your sensual experiences do not exist. Only when God experiences God.... that is the only experience that truly exists.

Good luck sir and I hope you get to where you want to in life.  

Edited May 20, 2021 by charlie cho

[RMQualtrough]

10 hours ago, samijiben said:

Leo says learn through direct experience, and yet direct experience can (and often does) mislead people. Take the heliocentric model of the universe, in which a flat earth, along with every other object floating in space, orbits around the sun; extensively proven wrong millennia ago. My point is, it appears as though the Earth is flat: we directly experience it as such. Yet it remains not the case. So, why trust direct experience?

Elements of these experiences are immune to what you are talking about because they can literally be known with 100% certainty.

For example, you cannot say with certainty that the Earth is not a CUBE. But if I ask you "are you conscious?" you will answer definitively yes. You could not be convinced otherwise. Because it is factually knowable.

These experiences simply strip away every layer that exists on top of what is your consciousness. I have not used 5-MeO-DMT, but have used n,n MANY times. N,n is a bit misleading because it comes with visuals and such which are not possible to definitively state are real in the same way I can say for sure that awareness is real.

It is odd that some of the patterns etc. are mathematically perfect. That might point at math being involved in some way for how the brain processes certain data... But largely it will be just an experience of your own self... The relative sensation of it is also more accurate, the normal sense of a consciousness conforming to the boundaries of our body is proveably false... The Default Mode Network which gets downshifted on these substances is largely responsible for such illusions.

Edited May 20, 2021 by RMQualtrough