Never Kill Yourself For Any Reason

[Thought Art]

I wanted to make a thread stressing the point that "There is no reason to end your life pre-maturely". 

There is so much to live for. The spiritual path is about the death of our falsely constructed ego. 

Life has so many chapters that you have yet to experience. 

Stay safe out there. And keep your body safe, your health high and don't quit self actualizing. 

You are here to experience this world and live a full life. 

People love you and its important to remember that. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Thought Art

[SourceCodo]

Thank you... 

Wise words indeed. 

[Bojan V]

@Thought Art Beautifuly said...

[Someone here]

The problem is we don't know what's the person who is killing himself is going through. We can't put ourselves in their shoes.  You never know maybe you will reach a point in your life where killing yourself seems like the only option left. I'm not with demonizing suicide as if life is always net positive and death is always net negative. It (death) exists for a reason. 

[Javfly33]

Except when you are in deep suffering.

In those moments some people seriously contemplate it because they have tried to get out of that state and it keeps repeating.

Therefore in a deep state of frustration they contemplate resourcing to the only way they now it would solve it.

 

[Moksha]

There is a difference between suffering and pain. Suffering is the primary source of awakening, after which it is no longer necessary. It is born of the misunderstanding that "you" are only "you", and is the result of being blind to Yourself.

Pain is a different story. Living lucidly can help with the pain, but not all pain can be resolved. If people choose to end their lives due to insurmountable pain, that is one thing. But never end your life due to suffering.

[Javfly33]

8 minutes ago, Moksha said:

There is a difference between suffering and pain. Suffering is the primary source of awakening, after which it is no longer necessary. It is born of the misunderstanding that "you" are only "you", and is the result of being blind to Yourself.

Pain is a different story. Living lucidly can help with the pain, but not all pain can be resolved. If people choose to end their lives due to insurmountable pain, that is one thing. But never end your life due to suffering.

Isn't the contrary tho'? You can feel pain and don't suffer about it.

I remember sadghuru writing something about this in of his books.

[Corpus]

9 minutes ago, Moksha said:

There is a difference between suffering and pain. Suffering is the primary source of awakening, after which it is no longer necessary. It is born of the misunderstanding that "you" are only "you", and is the result of being blind to Yourself.

Pain is a different story. Living lucidly can help with the pain, but not all pain can be resolved. If people choose to end their lives due to insurmountable pain, that is one thing. But never end your life due to suffering.

Perhaps visiting a ward containing patients with the different types of motor neurone disease could allow this dogmatic position with its "never" to be reconsidered? 

[kinesin]

EDIT:  Realized I was wrong.

Edited May 19, 2021 by kinesin

[TheSelf]

Kill yourself but don't harm the body!  

[Moksha]

4 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Isn't the contrary tho'? You can feel pain and don't suffer about it.

Viktor Frankl is a good example of this. Even in a concentration camp, where pain and death were rampant, he learned not to suffer.

[Moksha]

14 minutes ago, Corpus said:

Perhaps visiting a ward containing patients with the different types of motor neurone disease could allow this dogmatic position with its "never" to be reconsidered? 

Suffering is resistance to the reality of the present moment. It is only necessary until you wake up, and realize that resistance accomplishes nothing. Of course, if something averse can be changed, we should try to change it. But if we cannot change it, why complain about it, and create unnecessary suffering?

Patients may experience tremendous pain from motor neuron disease, which is unavoidable. Given that it is unavoidable, how is it sane to resist it? The resistance only adds unnecessary suffering to the pain.

Never end your life due to suffering. Pain is different, and I have said nothing about life decisions based on pain.

[Corpus]

3 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Suffering is resistance to the reality of the present moment. It is only necessary until you wake up, and realize that resistance accomplishes nothing. Of course, if something averse can be changed, we should try to change it. But if we cannot change it, why complain about it, and create unnecessary suffering?

Patients may experience tremendous pain from motor neuron disease, which is unavoidable. Given that it is unavoidable, how is it sane to resist it? The resistance only adds unnecessary suffering to the pain.

Never end your life due to suffering.

What if suffering was considered another way, as enduring an unwanted circumstance which in the setting of MND could include hypersalivation and an inability to swallow or spit it out, lacking the gag reflex to prevent it from trickling into ones lungs along with an inability to vocalise ones distress nor enrol the assistance of others, a perpetual sensation akin to drowning but, as you state, being unable to complain about it (due to an inability to speak) is a kind of blessing because it creates no additional unnecessary suffering?

Never/Always have much in common with should/could/would and their opposites. Could this "never" be suspended before the inevitable suffering arrives, with the taking of ones life before the suffering kicks in? Having spoken to a number of such patients it is far from uncommon for them to express the wish to have recourse to this path of action, and I personally can see why they feel this way.

[Leo Gura]

It does little good for someone who is suffering to tell them that suffering isn't real. They are in no place to care about such distinctions.

You also have no idea how much suffering they are in. You assume they can enjoy life like you, but if they seriously want to kill themselves then obviously they do not enjoy life like you. So it's a very difficult situation.

[Moksha]

31 minutes ago, Corpus said:

as you state, being unable to complain about it (due to an inability to speak)

With the exception of the above, I agree with what you have said, which I would call pain rather than suffering.

Suffering is not about speaking, and is all about resisting. Tolle describes meeting Stephen Hawking, and the profound sense of self-acceptance that he felt, when Hawking looked into his eyes. Despite his severe disability, Hawking had accepted his condition, and moved beyond suffering.

[ivankiss]

You have no access to rational thinking when you're in deep pain. No realization you had can stop you from suffering - if suffering is meant to be.

However - this is what I would like to emphasize here:

Do not throw rationality out the window.

In this circles; rationality is often spoken of as a limitation. A defect, even. Many people can take that as an excuse to act completely irrationally.

Rationality is a very important puzzle piece. It has its limitations, but it should by no means be eliminated or destroyed for good. Like everything else; it should be integrated.

Edited May 19, 2021 by ivankiss

[Moksha]

35 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It does little good for someone who is suffering to tell them that suffering isn't real.

You can't force someone not to suffer, any more than you can force them to wake up. Hell, you can't even force yourself to wake up. It happens when it happens.

[Corpus]

2 minutes ago, Moksha said:

With the exception of the above, I agree with what you have said, which I would call pain rather than suffering.

Suffering is not about speaking, and is all about resisting. Tolle describes meeting Stephen Hawking, and the profound sense of self-acceptance that he felt, when Hawking looked into his eyes. Despite his severe disability, Hawking had accepted his condition, and moved beyond suffering.

It is your choice to call it pain rather than suffering but this is more of a definitional issue, and open to discussion. Also recognise that Stephen Hawkings' phenotype of MND is a real rarity and does not reflect the picture I paint of the reality of the condition for many. As an outlier, his case cannot be a reasonable yardstick. 

[Moksha]

@Corpus Yes, all definitions are self-limiting. I am using the term as Tolle and others have defined it.

I'm not a medical doctor as you are, but from the spiritual perspective, the rarity is not of Hawkings' particular condition, but of his capacity for choosing not to be defined by it.

[Thought Art]

Like all things be wise!

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Thought Art