Soonhei (Member of this community) killed himself to experience Conscious Death. :-(

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

Luckily my therapy is covered by my health insurance. I wouldn't do spirituality if I couldn't afford the professional help. 

Few people in the world have such luxuries.

[Tim R]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In the future I may remove every social aspect of Actualized.org entirely. No comments, no forum. Just videos.

This would be a huge loss (yeah, I know I'm being selfish). Exchange with other people is extremely valuable, one, because it provides alleviation from the sense of loneliness that comes with going deep in this work and two, it simply enlarges the information network. The more people, the more information. 

@Leo GuraPeople discover Actualized.org because they want to know how to not give a sh*t what others think or how to meditate. And then they discover the rest. 

The relation between "depth of content" and "degree of shallowness of average follower" is too wide of a gap. 

I'm not telling you to divide Actualized.org into two camps, but the discrepancy between the levels of development that meet within the framework of Actualized.org has become unsustainably large. Hell, it even took a massive toll on the popularity of your brand. 

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I basically expect you to handle your own emotional stuff. I don't have the time to deal with people's emotional ups and downs.

I talk about emotional issues in my videos but I am not going to hold your hand through them. This totally unfeasible to do and you gotta learn to deal with it yourself anyways. If you need emotional assistance, that's what you hire a therapist for. And don't forget, a therapist charges $200/hr.

If you were playing me $200/hr, then you could expect one-on-one personal help with your emotions.

I get your point and I understand that you shouldn't play the role of a personal therapist here to anyone.

But it's incredibly arrogant to brush this issue under the carpet by saying "you deal with your own stuff, I'm not your therapist" and at the same time trying to market compassion in your videos. Contradictory.

If you care about people in a metaphysical way, your care wouldn't reach them if you haven't explored other ways of healing them.

Are you doing this work for your own ego?

Do you not want to know what can help a person?

Do you only want to speak about compassion but not act on it ?

If someone needs healing, maybe a few words from you might help them. If they're excessively pining for your attention then you can always tell them to seek therapy without sounding condescending to them .

However you  absolutely not wanting to talk to people with Emotional issues and daftly putting it away as "I'm not your therapist" is a casual way of shirking deep responsibility for any normal person (normie in your lingo) let alone for a spiritual teacher like you !

If you call yourself a teacher also practice what you preach. 

Hell even normal people on the street would offer a piece of kind word if a suicidal person approached them.

With you the standard of expectation is a bit higher.

You can't be like Eckhart Tolle simply sitting there and chatting up the audience in a joking spirit and when someone emotional in the audience asks a question, completely evading it and asking them to go to a therapist 

This seems like hypocrisy.

Nobody expects you to babysit someone for hours but a few kind words from your mouth are not going to waste hours of your lifetime 

 

[Dodo]

29 minutes ago, @tuckerwphotography said:

Quote

Or the simpler question, is there anything other than what's right here right now?

25 minutes ago, The0Self said:

No. There is not.

However, be careful...

Even though this is all there is, be wary of these assumptions:

That you should know all there is.

That this is in (or at) an exclusive “here and now” as opposed to some other here and now.

It’s those assumptions which can lead you astray — resorting to mere irrational, contorted, false belief that “this is all there is” in a way that is not the truth.

There is only what does and doesn’t appear ≈ I am you.

You cannot say "No, there is not". You have no way of knowing, as we cannot access what is beyond here and now. 

• Some assume there is something (matter) because it appears like that.
• Others assume there is nothing, because there is no direct experiential evidence of anything outside of Here-Now-Awareness.

but the correct response to such a question should not be to label the unknown/unknowable mystery as something or nothing, but to be true to what we actually know and label it with question mark or Mu. 

It is a mystery and will remain a mystery. We like to know things, but I had a major breakthrough when I changed this little assumption of knowing what is beyond us (or lack of such a thing) when if we are honest, as conscious awareness, we do not. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Dodo

[Surfingthewave]

50 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is not feasible and that will not be happening.

I made a decision a few years ago when I updated the disclaimers to the Forum Guidelines that we are not in the business of suicide prevention or mental healthcare. Nor will we be entering that business.

This forum's purpose is to be a casual place for chit-chat. This is precisely why I never started a large organization or spiritual commune. The idea was to keep things small and simple and casual. 

In the future I may remove every social aspect of Actualized.org entirely. No comments, no 

@Leo Gura

So why have you got a section for serious emotional problems? If you claim to be teaching psychology then you need to think seriously about the gaps you may have in your approach.

I also see this with Teal Swans teachings.

This isn't just a place for casual chit chat this is a place where people come with serious emotional issues and may be vulnerable. 

Sounds like you may need to review the purpose of the forum. 

[VeganAwake]

7 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I get your point and I understand that you shouldn't play the role of a personal therapist here to anyone.

But it's incredibly arrogant to brush this issue under the carpet by saying "you deal with your own stuff, I'm not your therapist" and at the same time trying to market compassion in your videos. Contradictory.

If you care about people in a metaphysical way, your care wouldn't reach them if you haven't explored other ways of healing them.

Are you doing this work for your own ego?

Do you not want to know what can help a person?

Do you only want to speak about compassion but not act on it ?

If someone needs healing, maybe a few words from you might help them. If they're excessively pining for your attention then you can always tell them to seek therapy without sounding condescending to them .

However you  absolutely not wanting to talk to people with Emotional issues and daftly putting it away as "I'm not your therapist" is a casual way of shirking deep responsibility for any normal person (normie in your lingo) let alone for a spiritual teacher like you !

If you call yourself a teacher also practice what you preach. 

Hell even normal people on the street would offer a piece of kind word if a suicidal person approached them.

With you the standard of expectation is a bit higher.

You can't be like Eckhart Tolle simply sitting there and chatting up the audience in a joking spirit and when someone emotional in the audience asks a question, completely evading it and asking them to go to a therapist 

This seems like hypocrisy.

Nobody expects you to babysit someone for hours but a few kind words from your mouth are not going to waste hours of your lifetime 

 

Maybe you can become a moderator to help with such issues.

Get a chance to experience things on the flip side sort of speak. ❤

[Preety_India]

Just now, VeganAwake said:

Maybe you can become a moderator to help with such issues.

Get a chance to experience things on the flip side sort of speak. ❤

I would be glad to do that.

I already help people a lot here especially with their emotional issues given my own experience with it.

 

[Preety_India]

@Leo Gura I have deep respect for who you are as a person.

So please don't think of me as attacking you. Not my goal 

I only wanted to offer a fair critique of your dismissive attitude towards mental and emotional health in the light of what you represent at Actualized Org 

Also this whole big organization that you built called Actualized Org is not solely your property after you made people a part of it..

Actualized Org is not meant only for Leo Gura and his aspirations. It is also meant for people who became a part of this journey with you.

Are you going to simply cut them off ?

We shared this journey with you. We became a part of you along with you doing this work.

Yes we are physically and mentally separate from you 

But what you are doing at Actualized Org is not simply your own work but also group work. We are also a part of who we made you. Your videos are about helping us. So this is a two way street.

You cannot be trying to help us and also separate us at the same time.

So hopefully you'll pay us due consideration to our input in all your future decisions.

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Preety_India

[WaveInTheOcean]

Dont blame Leo lol 

The dude made his own decision

Tragic of course

Fucking hell

And yes, maybe Leo/this forum/nahm could improve in communication to help prevent ppl take such retarded decisions as suicide.

But don't you fucking blame Leo

Love ya all ?????

 

[VeganAwake]

There may be a way to also set up suicidal red flag warning notification for certain words like: jump; end; kill; hurt; die etc...

This may already be the case. ❤

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, Surfingthewave said:

@Leo Gura

So why have you got a section for serious emotional problems? If you claim to be teaching psychology then you need to think seriously about the gaps you may have in your approach.

Because there is no way to filter out those people and because at least those people might get some help from fellow forum member.

Quote

This isn't just a place for casual chit chat this is a place where people come with serious emotional issues and may be vulnerable. 

Sounds like you may need to review the purpose of the forum. 

Again, your guys' expectations for this forum are way off.

This forum is purely pro-bono work. I offer no guarantees to any member or user of this forum that I will reply or help in any way. I could leave and not post on this forum for 2 months. This is not a clinic, this not therapy, this is not even life coaching. There is zero client relationship here. It's simply a big chat room. No guarantees of help are given. And in fact, no serious help is possible in this format.

Vulnerable people will inevitably come. Suicidal people will inevitably come. Drug addicts will come. Mentally ill people will come. Poor people will come. Criminal people will come. And it is not my job to help any of them any more than it is your job to save every mentally ill poor person you see the sidewalk. There are thousands of people in the world who need serious help. Unfortunately there is not enough time or energy to help them all.

I help those who I can when I feel capable and have some free time. Otherwise it is not my business. I am not here to save the world. And I am not in the business of building out a mental health organization. It is a full-time job just to keep Actualized.org running, even not counting what nonsense goes on on the forum.

Please understand this. No Youtuber or CEO or guru is running around personally saving people. Sadhguru or Eckhart Tolle is not gonna answer your email and talk to you. Sadhguru does not even show up at his seminars. It's just a video recording of him. The amount of time and energy which I have devoted to answering your guys' questions and problems via forum and comments is so outrageously high that you can not even being to calculate it. Nobody in the self-help or spiritual industry or on YT has answered as many questions, in such depth, for free, as I have. Find me one person who has done more.

I spent an hour on the phone last week talking down Connor the madman. Just to get trolled.

You are seriously taking for granted how hard I work for you for free. And if this kind of attitude continues, I will stop commenting and answering questions full stop. It will all be shut down. I have zero desire to play these social games. And I will have zero guilt about it, because I owe you nothing. I could be enjoying a drink on the beach right now, counting my money and smoking some DMT. Interacting with you and helping you has been something I've done for 5 years purely out of passion.

[VeganAwake]

17 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I would be glad to do that.

I already help people a lot here especially with their emotional issues given my own experience with it.

 

That's very generous of you ❤

[Preety_India]

@Leo Gura  will the journal section be kept in the future on this website because the journaling helps a lot.

Or are you planning to axe it as well along with forum comments?

 

 

[IAmReallyImportant]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, to understand this you would have to become conscious of what "other" is.

You might be shocked to discover that "other" is your own imagination.

The problem here is that the truth may not be comfortable or useful to your survival, especially if the only thing keeping you alive is your belief in others.

You have to be careful with your illusions. If you believe that Christ is the most real thing, and then you discover that Christ is just a fiction of your mind, and all you want to live for is Christ, then you very well might get the idea to kill yourself. This would be silly, but people do silly things all the time.

If you want to be safe, just commit to not harming your body. Don't take anything as a prescription for bodily harm. It's really not so complicated. I have stated this rule before: don't harm the body.

What happens if someone commits suicide? Why is this a bad thing? 

From my perspective, life offers too much beautiful things not yet discovered. But from an enlightened perspective? 

[kai0]

@Leo Gura I'm not sure where's the misunderstanding is. It is clear and evident that certain communications were the trigger behind this suicide. You're trying to avoid the responsibility by throwing everything at the recipient but it doesn't work that way. You maybe advanced and capable of being cautious and rational but most people aren't that way. You're carving a dangerous territory but then refusing to lead others carefully. It's time you should face reality and stop hiding behind the camera. Your words have consequences like it or not, and that's not exclusive to you. Death is a serious topic and spirituality deals with it so preventing unwanted deaths is part of it. You have built something beautiful please don't destroy it with your carelessness. The problem occurs way before the forum or the private chats you have with suicidal people. I don't expect you to become a full-time therapist suicide hotline. That would be putting the cart before the horse. Rather look at the root of the problem in your videos.

Statements like:

there are no others - you are imagining everything - everything is a dream literally and not figuratively - death doesn't exist or occur - and other statements

Therein lies the real problem. These words aren't neutral or innocent as you might think. They trigger certain chains of thoughts that more often than not lead to negative impacts from depression and nihilism all the way to suicide and genocide. The disclaimers do very little when you emphasize too much on the literal aspect of truthfulness regarding those statements. It is your responsibility to speak things correctly, and if you can't then probably you shouldn't or else just take responsibility for what happens next. What you say in the videos is your responsibility just as much as what you say here or anywhere else. There are many ways to frame the same thing but you choose one way and this way is clearly problematic evidenced by the many confusions that people post here asking about. These confused people are confused for a reason. You go to extreme lengths trying to make things clear and I respect you for that but I just think that you need to rethink your vocabulary and improve it especially regarding sensitive topics. I believe that's not too much to ask. Preventing the problems before it comes to life is wise and you talk about wisdom so lead by example. Hopefully you will at least consider what I said here.

Edited May 20, 2021 by kai0

[Etherial Cat]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because there is no way to filter out those people and because at least those people might get some help from fellow forum member.

Again, your guys' exceptions for this forum are way off.

This forum is purely pro-bono work. I offer no guarantees to any member or user of this forum that I will reply or help in any way. I could leave and not post on this forum for 2 months. This is not a clinic, this not therapy, this is not even life coaching. There is zero client relationship here. It's simply a big chat room. No guarantees of help are given. And in fact, no serious help is possible in this format.

Vulnerable people will inevitably come. Suicidal people will inevitably come. Drug addicts will come. Mentally ill people will come. Poor people will come. Criminal people will come. And it is not my job to help any of them any more than it is your job to save every mentally ill poor person you see the sidewalk. There are thousands of people in the world you need serious help. Unfortunately there is not enough time or energy to help them all.

I help those who I can when I feel capable and have some free time. Otherwise it is not my business. I am not here to save the world. And I am not in the business of building out a mental health organization. It is a full-time job just to keep Actualized.org running, even not counting what nonsense goes on on the forum.

Please understand this. No Youtuber or CEO or guru is running around personally saving people. Sadhguru or Eckhart Tolle is not gonna answer your email and talk to you. The amount of time and energy which I have devoted to answering your guys' questions and problems via forum and comments is so outrageously high that you can not even being to calculate it. Nobody in the self-help or spiritual industry or on YT has answered as many questions, in such depth, for free, as I have. Find me one person to has done more.

I spent an hour on the phone last week talking down Connor the madman. Just to get trolled.

You are seriously taking for granted how hard I work for you for free. And if this kind of attitude continues, I will stop commenting and answering questions full stop. It will all be shut down. I have zero desire to play these social games. And I will have zero guilt about it, because I owe you nothing. I could be enjoying a drink on the beach right now, counting my money and enjoying some DMT.

Fair enough, I get that. 

Though, the forum is also a great source of inspiration for your work. Kinda gives a great sight on society's biggest issues which is great philosophy material.  

Edited May 20, 2021 by Etherial Cat

[Michael569]

1 hour ago, Yali said:

why would he troll about something like that

it's like you're new to the internet. The amount of perverse action some people are willing to take for a bit of attention on the internet literally has no boundaries...it's really a cry for love what it is and that love, sometimes only comes when the person is holding gun to their head

 

[Godhead]

7 hours ago, Preety_India said:

@Leo Gura I have deep respect for who you are as a person.

So please don't think of me as attacking you. Not my goal 

I only wanted to offer a fair critique of your dismissive attitude towards mental and emotional health in the light of what you represent at Actualized Org 

Also this whole big organization that you built called Actualized Org is not solely your property after you made people a part of it..

Actualized Org is not meant only for Leo Gura and his aspirations. It is also meant for people who became a part of this journey with you.

Are you going to simply cut them off ?

We shared this journey with you. We became a part of you along with you doing this work.

Yes we are physically and mentally separate from you 

But what you are doing at Actualized Org is not simply your own work but also group work. We are also a part of who we made you. Your videos are about helping us. So this is a two way street.

You cannot be trying to help us and also separate us at the same time.

So hopefully you'll pay us due consideration to our input in all your future decisions.

Are you going to blame a cook for not wanting to be a plumber? 

Leo is doing what he's interested in and good at. If I'm looking for fitness advice, I don't ask Leo to make his whole channel revolve around Fitness, I simply look for other teachers.

I mean he even has a whole subforum where people can talk about mental health issues and he has several videos about emotions and mental health, it's not like he's completely ignorant towards those issues. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Godhead

[Consept]

When someone passes i always feel sorry for their family more than them as they are the ones left to suffer and seeing it first hand it, can be devastating and leave a lasting impact. Its a shame Soonhei went that way, i didnt know him too well but he seemed to provide a lot of value to those around him and im not sure he fully understood what was being lost. It was weird because im currently reading a book called 'Death' by Sashuguru, after i saw this thread i opened it up and i was on the page titled 'Suicide, ill leave a couple of pics at the end of the 2 pages in which he mentions when someone on the spiritual path commits suicide. 

Regarding the forum taking more responsibility for this, i dont really see it as Leo or the forums fault, for one it didnt seem as if he had mental health problems, therefore you can only really say he needed spiritual guidance but again the forum and Leo cant be expected to do that. There are tons of forums, social media etc etc that actively encourage suicide, it wouldnt be fair to say this forum encourages it. Also he wasnt new to the spiritual path, he did what he did somewhat consciously, if anything it seemed as if he was looking for confirmation for his eventual actions which he didnt get here. Surely this forum has saved many lives, ive seen numerous threads where people have talked about being depressed and suicidal and they have received so much support, if we change the make up of the site you are essentially risking these peoples lives, its the whole thing of people only notice when something goes wrong. 

 

 

 

[Jonty]

@Leo Gura It's only a small portion that don't seem to recognise the amount of effort that you go to. 

On a personal level, this website has changed my life and I'm sure it has done the same for thousands of others. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Jonty