Soonhei (Member of this community) killed himself to experience Conscious Death. :-(

[The0Self]

2 minutes ago, Scholar said:

When you say "something is simply foolish", you are implying objectivity without being aware of it. You can call it foolish, but in the grand scheme of things, according to Leo's philosophy, it all must be Perfection and Wisdom. There could not possibly be anything foolish in reality.

That's your misunderstanding. Saying something is foolish but not objectively/ultimately so, is something I don't know how anyone could argue against.

Edited May 20, 2021 by The0Self

[diamondpenguin]

4 hours ago, Preety_India said:

I get your point and I understand that you shouldn't play the role of a personal therapist here to anyone.

But it's incredibly arrogant to brush this issue under the carpet by saying "you deal with your own stuff, I'm not your therapist" and at the same time trying to market compassion in your videos. Contradictory.

If you care about people in a metaphysical way, your care wouldn't reach them if you haven't explored other ways of healing them.

Are you doing this work for your own ego?

Do you not want to know what can help a person?

Do you only want to speak about compassion but not act on it ?

If someone needs healing, maybe a few words from you might help them. If they're excessively pining for your attention then you can always tell them to seek therapy without sounding condescending to them .

However you  absolutely not wanting to talk to people with Emotional issues and daftly putting it away as "I'm not your therapist" is a casual way of shirking deep responsibility for any normal person (normie in your lingo) let alone for a spiritual teacher like you !

If you call yourself a teacher also practice what you preach. 

Hell even normal people on the street would offer a piece of kind word if a suicidal person approached them.

With you the standard of expectation is a bit higher.

You can't be like Eckhart Tolle simply sitting there and chatting up the audience in a joking spirit and when someone emotional in the audience asks a question, completely evading it and asking them to go to a therapist 

This seems like hypocrisy.

Nobody expects you to babysit someone for hours but a few kind words from your mouth are not going to waste hours of your lifetime 

 

@Preety_India Instead of bashing Leo, why don't you become the free online therapist you want him to be? 

The Guy is a Psychedelic Scientist, not a shrink. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by diamondpenguin

[Preety_India]

5 minutes ago, diamondpenguin said:

@Preety_India Instead of bashing Leo, why don't you become the free online therapist you want him to be? 

The Guy is a Psychedelic Scientist, not a shrink. 

That was my exact point. Not to be a shrink but still be able to help. Read the post again if you didn't get it.

 

[kieranperez]

Looks like shit is hitting the fan as the word gets out about his death

 

[Mu_]

1 hour ago, tuckerwphotography said:

@Mu_ Yes, but that example involves me, which is right here right now. I was asking about somebody else like my cousin in Georgia. If he gets his penis cut off, and I don't know about it, did it actually happen?

No that includes not just "you" right here right now, but everything right here right now. Your looking at this from the point of view that "you" are the only now.  Now is the only Now, and the window of experience you call "you" is thinking its just it and nothing else.

[Scholar]

By the way, there is a very real possibility that if Leo and similar people do not adjust their way of advocacy, that in the future these ideas might get banned from youtube and similar social media platforms. It's still pretty contained to a small part of spiritual community, but trust me if this went to the public, how many of us here talk with Leo will seem like childsplay.

We are trying to help Leo, this community and the future of the spiritual movement. But of course, wisdom often has to be taught through suffering.

[StarStruck]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

That was my exact point. Not to be a shrink but still be able to help. Read the post again if you didn't get it.

 

 

The expectations you put on Actualized org forum are just your expectations. The majority of the members here don't share your expectations. You already get a lot of freebies and wanting more is kind of ungrateful. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by StarStruck

[tuckerwphotography]

6 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

No that includes not just "you" right here right now, but everything right here right now. Your looking at this from the point of view that "you" are the only now.  Now is the only Now, and the window of experience you call "you" is thinking its just it and nothing else.

@Mu_ Thank you for your response to my question. I'm still not clear though and wondering if you can help clarify. Is it correct to interpret what you're saying as, "The awareness that is experiencing this present moment is not aware of other present moments happening elsewhere?" Apologies for the confusion.

[Preety_India]

Just now, StarStruck said:

 

The expectations you put on Actualized org forum are just your expectations. The majority of the members here don't share your expectations. You already get a lot of freebies and wanting more is kind of ungrateful. 

We didn't carry out a survey to know that. Your assumption is simply your assumption. And also because majority doesn't like or want doesn't mean a suggestion is a bad suggestion. This is not a majority minority social game. Stop isolating people for having a different opinion.

 

[Mu_]

41 minutes ago, Scholar said:

There is no way for you to actually justify this line of reasoning and you know it. A direct consequence of your philosophy is that you cannot say any of this was bad, foolish or ignorant. Who constitutes what a misusage of teachings are? I guess if it's bad PR for you, it must be misusage.

 

Warnings from what exactly? A breaching of your personal moral code that you have established for your own selfish reasons? You can't reason yourself out of this.

Is it foolish for Christianity to be around and have caused (according to your reasoning) the suicide of tens of thousands of people, along with perhaps wars and cleansing in the millions.  Same could be said of Buddhism in which there are wars fought from people who hold some of the more esoteric beliefs of the religion.  Same goes for the Koran and I'm sure many faiths and scriptures people fight over or are motivated by and sculpt their supposed character.

Or how about main stream idea's that the world is a unsafe place, or atheists who hold hard line emotional beliefs that the world is a cruel cruel place and do so with "facts" and "data" and spread this and down the road there is all these depressed people or suicidal people.

Leo ain't perfect, nor is it even possible, I'm not even sure we would get that much along in real life, although I'm sure we could shoot the shit and have a good meal and be respectful to one another (who knows maybe we could), but I respect him for some of his teachings and for being honest about who he is and not really trying to be anything other for the most part.

I get that this was a horrible thing and its easy to point a finger of blame on someone.  I'm also pretty sure Leo's gonna be a little more mindful with words and this event will shape him differently, but to hold him "responsible" or say things like this was bound to happen is on you man....

[Mu_]

2 minutes ago, tuckerwphotography said:

@Mu_ Thank you for your response to my question. I'm still not clear though and wondering if you can help clarify. Is it correct to interpret what you're saying as, "The awareness that is experiencing this present moment is not aware of other present moments happening elsewhere?" Apologies for the confusion.

Not from your living experience, but there are beings of awareness that do experience a much broader understanding and experience which includes more then just a single "human" view.  That said, just live your life in a way that is kind and not looking to hurt others and it will go pretty smooth in terms of wondering how you should act or be.

[Scholar]

21 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

Is it foolish for Christianity to be around and have caused (according to your reasoning) the suicide of tens of thousands of people, along with perhaps wars and cleansing in the millions.  Same could be said of Buddhism in which there are wars fought from people who hold some of the more esoteric beliefs of the religion.  Same goes for the Koran and I'm sure many faiths and scriptures people fight over or are motivated by and sculpt their supposed character.

Or how about main stream idea's that the world is a unsafe place, or atheists who hold hard line emotional beliefs that the world is a cruel cruel place and do so with "facts" and "data" and spread this and down the road there is all these depressed people or suicidal people.

Leo ain't perfect, nor is it even possible, I'm not even sure we would get that much along in real life, although I'm sure we could shoot the shit and have a good meal and be respectful to one another (who knows maybe we could), but I respect him for some of his teachings and for being honest about who he is and not really trying to be anything other for the most part.

I get that this was a horrible thing and its easy to point a finger of blame on someone.  I'm also pretty sure Leo's gonna be a little more mindful with words and this event will shape him differently, but to hold him "responsible" or say things like this was bound to happen is on you man....

I think you really need to step back and realize how you are literally rationalizing to a degree that it is becoming childish. Christianity as an ideology is and was tremendously harmful. Of course it was necessary, but we have grown wise enough to let go of it and not repeat the same mistakes.

We should criticise Buddhism aswell, and all tradtions. It doesn't matter what tradition it is, if it does something that causes harm, we should poiint that out and seek change.

 

This is basic "whataboutism", google the term. I understand your need to defend Leo and your own identity. Nobody here is "blaming Leo", or demanding him to be perfect. We are simply pointing to areas he can improve in. What you are doing is exceptionally dangerous especially in a spiritual community. I can disagree with Leo, I can criticise what he does. This is what a community does, we take each other into account and we share our perspectives. Your attempt to invalidate anyone who is "speaking against" Leo is unhealthy.

 

I am not pointing fingers or blaming, I have repeatedly said this. I am challenging Leo because I think it is the right thing to do. You guys are behaving like children and this is a serious issue. Stop defending a full grown man from something that is not even done in any bad faith. Most people here are reasonable, concerned and compassionate. We aren't out to get or blame Leo.

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Scholar

[tuckerwphotography]

5 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

Not from your living experience, but there are beings of awareness that do experience a much broader understanding and experience which includes more then just a single "human" view.  That said, just live your life in a way that is kind and not looking to hurt others and it will go pretty smooth in terms of wondering how you should act or be.

@Mu_ Will do. Just to share, from my understanding this seems to contradict one of Leo's central teachings, which is that what I am experiencing right here right now is all there is. This is the entire Universe. There is nothing else except what is in my direct experience, whether that's a "human" view or anything else. Is this a misunderstanding of Leo's teaching? 

[Danioover9000]

15 hours ago, charlie cho said:

@Preety_India I'm saying this is not Leo's fault. I never said don't kill yourself. Suicide is your choice. I'm saying we have no responsibility over it, including Leo. People blaming Leo for this is utter fucking nonsense. It's so fucking stupid. I feel this energy in this forum where people are blaming Leo. Fuck you. And saying fuck you to these people, people then associate people like me who say, "fuck you" as saying "fuck you" to the deceased guy. We weren't saying "fuck you" to the deceased soul, we were saying "fuck you" to you specifically who blame people who had no responsibility over it.

   In other words, what I've said before but more politely. This isn't my style of communication of being blunt, but it's similar. The ego mind is really crafty, it can even use this to seek revenge for past wrongs, under the current situation. It almost torn my family apart when we had to deal with a dead family member. It can also use bluntness as way to shelter itself from any perceived wrong it coule of had.

   It's also possible that, because we don't have definitive proof, Soohei might still be alive, but is using this opportunity to troll,and hope to get his account banned. Who knows? I've known stories of some who will use any lie to damage the other at any cost, taking advantage of the situation, while looking and sounding innocent. Has anyone reading now considered other possibilities other than going straight to concluding and trusting OP?

   However, like I've stated, sometimes assuming this is true is safer, so once again I offer condolences, if this really did happen.

   

[Mu_]

14 minutes ago, tuckerwphotography said:

@Mu_ Will do. Just to share, from my understanding this seems to contradict one of Leo's central teachings, which is that what I am experiencing right here right now is all there is. This is the entire Universe. There is nothing else except what is in my direct experience, whether that's a "human" view or anything else. Is this a misunderstanding of Leo's teaching? 

@Leo Gura

Its not in your direct experience that drinking bleach will kill you, but I'd advice against it.  There's so much more subtly that your not fully grasping yet and should watch more of his content to round out this simplisticness.

[Guest Tobia]

Reading this thread is shocking. A human being like you just died and left his family behind. His family members are literally reading this discussion.

And what do people do here? Bicker like children about meaningless philosophies and who is to blame, who is right and wrong, me me me, my opinion...

who cares?

No respect, no sensitivity, no compassion, no gentleness, no sense of consideration for his family reading this mess. Wow.

[Mu_]

40 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I think you really need to step back and realize how you are literally rationalizing to a degree that it is becoming childish. Christianity as an ideology is and was tremendously harmful. Of course it was necessary, but we have grown wise enough to let go of it and not repeat the same mistakes.

We should criticise Buddhism aswell, and all tradtions. It doesn't matter what tradition it is, if it does something that causes harm, we should poiint that out and seek change.

 

This is basic "how-aboutism", google the term. I understand your need to defend Leo and your own identity. Nobody here is "blaming Leo", or demanding him to be perfect. We are simply pointing to areas he can improve in. What you are doing is exceptionally dangerous especially in a spiritual community. I can disagree with Leo, I can criticise what he does. This is what a community does, we take each other into account and we share our perspectives. Your attempt to invalidate anyone who is "speaking against" Leo is unhealthy.

 

I am not pointing fingers or blaming, I have repeatedly said this. I am challenging Leo because I think it is the right thing to do. You guys are behaving like children and this is a serious issue. Stop defending a full grown man from something that is not even done in any bad faith. Most people here are reasonable, concerned and compassionate. We aren't out to get or blame Leo.

 

I think a lot of the "criticism" is natural, I'm not trying to defend Leo what so ever, he's not my guru and honestly I have a lot of different views of things then him, and am even surprised I'm a mod on his forum.  I'm just putting information out there as well as highlighting its not always easy to place a cause or "blame" on something.  I get it, you feel strongly, it was a tragic thing that happened.  Maybe step back for a few days, feel out what happened, ask yourself if your coming at this with your own biases.  Right now you seem dead convinced of your view being objective and are coming at this rather intensely with what seems to be a blame.

[Scholar]

9 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

I think a lot of the "criticism" is natural, I'm not trying to defend Leo what so ever, he's not my guru and honestly I have a lot of different views of things then him, and am even surprised I'm a mod on his forum.  I'm just putting information out there as well as highlighting its not always easy to place a cause or "blame" on something.  I get it, you feel strongly, it was a tragic thing that happened.  Maybe step back for a few days, feel out what happened, ask yourself if your coming at this with your own biases.  Right now you seem dead convinced of your view being objective and are coming at this rather intensely with what seems to be a blame.

What do you think is my view? Give a summary.

[Inliytened1]

Guys let's not tarnish the thread with debate.  

[The0Self]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Guys let's not tarnish the thread with debate.  

Agreed.

Edited May 20, 2021 by The0Self