Soonhei (Member of this community) killed himself to experience Conscious Death. :-(

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

If this was the end result of spiritual belief, every guru like the Buddha etc would be committing suicide.

SoonHei was nowhere near the consciousness or development level of The Buddha. If he was awake he would not have jumped off a bridge. An awake person doesn't behave that way and certainly doesn't ask others about it.

He was simply eager to reach liberation via suicide rather than doing the hard work. Why spend 10 years meditating or taking psychedelics when you can just jump off a bridge?

"Die before you die" does not mean: go die. He took it as that.

[RMQualtrough]

1 minute ago, outlandish said:

Unless we don't remember the spiritual philosophies that lacked the guardrails against people terminating their lives, because those philosophies died out over time, being unpalatable. Whereas the ones with strong guardrails thrived and are remembered today.

There is actually a tribe who DOGMATICALLY believe that when they die they go to another plane of existence that is far greater. Sounds like normal religions but they DOGMATICALLY believe it and there are no guardrails. No "suicide prevents heaven" etc. This tribe has not gone extinct, and the people do not just randomly suicide, but they do suicide when slight issues arise in their life.

Sam Harris discussed these people before I think.

[Ryan R]

From what I'm gathering it is unclear to mostly everyone here that with this gentleman's death this community has just entered a kind of dangerzone of becoming a hotbed for suicide contagion. That he did it with so much grace, and because timeless nondual truth has little bad to say about suicide, and because this forum as a place of spiritual exploration and communication is full of diverse people contemplating death (as they should be) including a fair number of emotionally unstable folks, we are ripe for a suicide cluster.

If you don't know what I'm talking about please google "suicide cluster", "suicide contagion", and "the Werther effect". Sadly, we see this in high-schools all too often. There we can attempt to control the much more manageable environment and offer clinical help to everyone, and still multiple impressionable confused young people take thier lives. There is little chance of halting it here.

In short folks, this may be the beginning of the end of the forum. The days and weeks to come will tell. It will only take one more, and then there will be a few more. Investigations, lawsuits, all manor of demonization of this work, and a general complete shitshow will follow... Love peace but prepare for war ?

[outlandish]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

"Die before you die" does not mean: go die. He took it as that.

This needs to be made more explicit

[Inliytened1]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

SoonHei was nowhere near the consciousness or development level of The Buddha. If he was awake he would not have jumped off a bridge. An awake person doesn't behave that way and certainly doesn't ask others about it.

He was simply eager to reach liberation via suicide rather than doing the hard work. Why spend 10 years meditating or taking psychedelics when you can just jump off a bridge?

"Die before you die" does not mean: go die. He took it as that.

Sadly - This is the truth.  I was going to post it but no need now.  I think these Truths were still at a belief level for him.  And this work should never be taken as belief even if he could intuit it..  If not he wouldn't have done what he did.  

[The0Self]

6 minutes ago, Ryan R said:

From what I'm gathering it is unclear to mostly everyone here that with this gentleman's death this community has just entered a kind of dangerzone of becoming a hotbed for suicide contagion. That he did it with so much grace, and because timeless nondual truth has little bad to say about suicide, and because this forum as a place of spiritual exploration and communication is full of diverse people contemplating death (as they should be) including a fair number of emotionally unstable folks, we are ripe for a suicide cluster.

If you don't know what I'm talking about please google "suicide cluster", "suicide contagion", and "the Werther effect". Sadly, we see this in high-schools all too often. There we can attempt to control the much more manageable environment and offer clinical help to everyone, and still multiple impressionable confused young people take thier lives. There is little chance of halting it here.

In short folks, this may be the beginning of the end of the forum. The days and weeks to come will tell. It will only take one more, and then there will be a few more. Investigations, lawsuits, all manor of demonization of this work, and a general complete shitshow will follow... Love peace but prepare for war ?

Grace? Nobody here looks highly upon suicide. In fact it's very much in the air that suicide is precisely not what this work is about.

And Leo is handling it about as well as one could ask.

In Patreon meetings with Jim Newman, for instance, if someone brings up suicide, Jim tells them "I'll buy you the rope." Basically the exact opposite happens here.

Edited May 20, 2021 by The0Self

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Ryan R said:

From what I'm gathering it is unclear to mostly everyone here that with this gentleman's death this community has just entered a kind of dangerzone of becoming a hotbed for suicide contagion. That he did it with so much grace, and because timeless nondual truth has little bad to say about suicide, and because this forum as a place of spiritual exploration and communication is full of diverse people contemplating death (as they should be) including a fair number of emotionally unstable folks, we are ripe for a suicide cluster.

If you don't know what I'm talking about please google "suicide cluster", "suicide contagion", and "the Werther effect". Sadly, we see this in high-schools all too often. There we can attempt to control the much more manageable environment and offer clinical help to everyone, and still multiple impressionable confused young people take thier lives. There is little chance of halting it here.

In short folks, this may be the beginning of the end of the forum. The days and weeks to come will tell. It will only take one more, and then there will be a few more. Investigations, lawsuits, all manor of demonization of this work, and a general complete shitshow will follow... Love peace but prepare for war ?

Do not fearmonger and spread toxic ideas.

We are here discussing this issue so people can get closure. This thread is not a license for run hog-wild with crazy ideas. Nobody is here to kill themselves and nothing in these teachings is remotely about that.

This idea that anything whatsoever in these teachings is even remotely close to suicide needs to end right now. There is no such confusion in the mind of any reasonable or sane person. Please stop spreading such rumors. Keep in mind that if you guys insist on promoting such ideas about my work, I will stop sharing my teachings with you entirely. And then you will be all on your own.

[RMQualtrough]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

SoonHei was nowhere near the consciousness or development level of The Buddha.

He was simply eager to reach liberation via suicide rather than doing the hard work.

"Die before you die" does not mean: go die. He took it as that.

I am of the opinion that a person who does this is already struggling. And as you know people drawn to these sorts of things are probably more likely to be struggling mentally, hence seeking an escape.

If I wanted to shortcut to liberation and didn't care about death at all I'd do a fat dose of 5-MeO-DMT. Maybe every day even if I was THAT serious that I'd kill myself. Leaping to my death makes no sense to me.

It seems to defeat the purpose otherwise... You get into self development to improve your life. Suicide is the opposite way lol. I don't think it is right when Buddhists just label existence suffering. I am under no illusion that a great deal of people find some contentment in their lives.

I really think this is likely a person who found a way to feel okay and fine about a decision that they probably wanted to make before finding such communities to begin with.

[Jodistrict]

One change I suggest is that suicide talk be banned from the forum.   Posters contemplating suicide or writing suicide fantasies should be immediately shut down and referred to professional help.   An Internet forum can’t handle these issues, but takes on the responsibility if a platform is being provided for their expression.

[ivankiss]

Nope. You guys are still not getting it.

God-realized my ass.

[Ryan R]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Do not fearmonger and spread toxic ideas.

We are here discussing this issue so people can get closure. This thread is not a license for run hog-wild with crazy ideas. Nobody is here to kill themselves and nothing in these teachings is about that.

This idea that anything whatsoever in these teachings is even remotely close to suicide needs to end right now. There is no such confusion in the mind of any reasonable or sane person. Please stop spreading such rumors.

Well said and will do. Take care All

[Preety_India]

@Jodistrict there is a serious emotion section for it 

 

[The0Self]

2 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Nope. You guys are still not getting it.

God-realized my ass.

What would you propose? People sometimes commit suicide. This community is as far from pro-suicide as it can get.

[jimwell]

@Muhammad Jawad

Thanks for letting us know about his death. I hope death is heaven for him. How do you feel by the way? If you really are very close to him, you must be feeling very dark and heavy (serious depression). Especially if you are already experiencing other existential and spiritual crisis.

I recommend to "consciously" grieve. Feel that dark, heavy "hole" located inside your chest or stomach. Don't repress it by working too much, drinking coffee, getting high on drugs, etc. to forget it all. If you do so, there's a big chance it will murder your body. I know this via intuition and observation. I have heard of these stories a few times. But I can cite an example of a former colleague who lost his sister to dengue. He said he experienced too much pain, he repressed it by always working and drinking coffee. After about a week, he suddenly collapsed and experienced NDE. According to him, he lost control or sense of his entire body and he knew he was going to die. He started to cry then suddenly saw flashes of memories (from childhood to the point of collapsing). He cried even more and got completely horrified of his impending death.

But a miracle happened, he survived.

If the pain located inside your chest or stomach becomes too intense and unbearable, touch your chest or stomach then massage it in a circular motion. Deeply feel the pain then have the intention of easing it via the circular massage. You can adjust the circumference of the circular motion depending on the size of the pain located inside your chest or stomach. It magically works and eases the pain. That is at least true to me. It might also be true to you. So, try it.

But the pain comes and goes and intensifies from to time. Endure the grieving process until you feel better. It is important to endure the pain and not give up on life even if you feel like it.

It's also important to refresh your soul and do something you love. For me, taking long walks in nature while contemplating about life and admiring the beauty I see always refreshes my soul. I also feel my connection to the Source during these long walks. Doing that might also help you.

In the end, you are alone in your spiritual journey. You can ask others for answers but they will never be satisfying. You will only be satisfied when you derive the answers yourself. Be self-responsible and self-reliant.

 

[ivankiss]

The way this information is being spread is what makes people go crazy.

Not the information itself. 

The information can be as accurate and on point as it can get. But if its being shared in such a toxic manner; it will do more harm than good.

Don't believe me? Ask the part of you that jumped off that bridge on may 3rd.

A lot of you know a lot. More than you can handle. Hence you don't actually know anything.

 

[Display_Name]

22 minutes ago, The0Self said:

In Patreon meetings with Jim Newman, for instance, if someone brings up suicide, Jim tells them "I'll buy you the rope." Basically the exact opposite happens here.

Lmaooo Jim is such a joker

[The0Self]

3 minutes ago, Display_Name said:

Lmaooo Jim is such a joker

Ironically "I'll buy you the rope" seems to have "worked" thus far to my knowledge. No one in that community has done it yet lol

[ivankiss]

7 minutes ago, sda said:

I propose to support such people and not distort Leos teachings. 

Leo's teachings are already distorted enough. And they are not his teachings, really.

[Surfingthewave]

@jimwell

That was a beautiful post thank you.

[RMQualtrough]

13 minutes ago, sda said:

I think Leo is correct. We should stop distorting and lying on Leo's teachings. I dont want him to stop sharing teachings although I dont know about it yet.

 

 

I think we should take this action because if Leo stop sharing his teachings I will not be alive anymore because my life has radically revolutionized and continue to, due to Leo Gura teachings. 

 

I propose to support such people and not distort Leos teachings. If they are not getting support through the forum then ban them so that people can stop distorting Leos teachings and these suicidal people can go to some better professional.

Just send them to the suicide subreddit. Sometimes people in that condition will not go to see a professional, and the Samaritans etc you know are BSing you with a script.

Do you know who was one of the most successful suicide hotline workers of all time. No joke... Ted Bundy. Lmao.

People aren't stupid. They don't want to know someone is just saying empty words that aren't actually true because the script tells them to.

Sometimes online communities like on Reddit are more accessible to people in trouble.