Soonhei (Member of this community) killed himself to experience Conscious Death. :-(

[Ryan R]

@Preety_India

I'm sorry Preety. I mean no disrespect to him, his family and friends, you, or anyone. All I'm saying is that for the sake of preserving human life and this community we must condemn and not glorify suicide. 

[SpiritualAwakening]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is tragic of course. But how do you explain Sadhguru's wife leaving behind her kid and family? Selfishness? Or maybe there is some higher purpose you are not seeing? Or maybe you believe Sadhguru killed her?

in the end in all honesty, who knows what was going through his mind. From the screenshots I've read it seemed like he totally gave his authority away relying on someone to give him the answer to what he thought might be a good thing to try. interpretating something someone else had said in a fashion that he found meaningful to justify his thought cycles.

Edited May 20, 2021 by SpiritualAwakening

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

From the screenshots I've read it seemed like he totally gave his authority away relying on someone to give him the answer to what he thought might be a good thing to try.

I think SoonHei realized that asking Nahm was pointless because in the end who are you trusting but yourself? In the end he was sure that he has a good idea going and that he was convinced that the end result would be something he wanted.

[Preety_India]

4 minutes ago, Ryan R said:

@Preety_India

I'm sorry Preety. I mean no disrespect to him, his family and friends, you, or anyone. All I'm saying is that for the sake of preserving human life and this community we must condemn and not glorify suicide. 

Showing compassion and understanding to the deceased is not glorification of suicide. 

Glorification would be if people did not feel sorry or if they cheered such an act and encouraged others to do the same.

However I didn't see that on the thread. Most people expressed regret that it happened. I don't see this as glorification but condemnation and disappointment expressed in a compassionate way.

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Preety_India

[SpiritualAwakening]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But how do you explain Sadhguru's wife leaving behind her kid and family? Selfishness? Or maybe there is some higher purpose you are not seeing? Or maybe you believe Sadhguru killed her?

Sadghuru also thinks he can levitate, so who knows what to think of his thoughts or what he might have done or not.

Edited May 20, 2021 by SpiritualAwakening

[charlie cho]

@SpiritualAwakening I have got this inspiration from Chuang Tzu. Chuang Tzu's wife left early and he was crying for a few seconds. But after that he was found contradicting the formal rites of the funeral and was dancing and singing with his instrument. His friend asked him why he was doing that. Chuang Tzu answered, "I was sad at first of course, but I suddenly recognized my wife has died peacefully in her own course. She did not die prematurely. To be sad and cry at something what is natural is needlessly inflicting harm on oneself. So I decided to laugh and dance! Being sad in this funeral is utter stupidity! Let us not condemn nature by being sad of death, which is what happens naturally to all of existence."

Since then, only his friend stood by him dancing and singing in the funeral, and everybody left thinking Chuang Tzu was a maniac. 

Living the natural way isn't such a popular thing amongst people. People glorify what is unnatural. It is famous that confucianists hated Chuang Tzu for not following the formal rites of his wife's funeral because they were bound by systematic formalism. They criticized Chuang Tzu for being unmannerly to his wife and despising her. They got it all wrong. Out of all the attenders in the funeral, Chuang Tzu was the most compassionate, most loving towards his wife.

Most people are mannerly and civilized, but not loving or natural

Edited May 20, 2021 by charlie cho

[Ryan R]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

As I told Connor Murphy when he was trying to tell me that I was afraid of his crazy antics, I told him to make a distinction between fear and caution.

If some self-help book tells you to be fearless, does that mean you should disable the break peddle in your car?

You see how easy it is to take an innocent piece of advice such as: "Be fearless" and twist it into: "So I should never use the break peddle and never use condoms."

It's very hard to make advice that fool-proof.

I hear ya Leo. I normally draw the distinction between being fearless and reckless. If courage or fearlessness causes one to completely abandon all concern for consequences then it is at least also, if not completely, stupidity. As with mostly everything finding balance by wisdom and right judgment is the key to being appropriately fearless, but you know that.

[SpiritualAwakening]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I think SoonHei realized that asking Nahm was pointless because in the end who are you trusting but yourself? In the end he was sure that he has a good idea going and that he was convinced that the end result would be something he wanted.

If he truly thought this then I think he wouldn't have asked the same question in different ways multiple times. I think he didn't get the answer he was looking for but justified his actions by thinking he found the answer to what he was looking for.

[Leo Gura]

In general, the topic of death is very taboo in society. And for good reason. If you question death too much, you might cease to fear and hate it, and then how would we live? Life requires a fear and hatred of death. That is the ultimate bias. And playing with this bias is dangerous. Which is why exoteric religions demonize and try to control esoteric religion. Esoteric religion fundamentally is about questioning death. And you cannot allow that in a civilized society.

[SpiritualAwakening]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In general, the topic of death is very taboo in society. And for good reason. If you question death too much, you might cease to fear and hate it, and then how would we live?

 

As I'm living right now.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

As I'm living right now.

Oh yeah, then how about you remove the break peddle from your car?

(In case you're dumb: don't do that.)

[charlie cho]

We fear death so much because we love it so much also. 

[SpiritualAwakening]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

(In case you're dumb: don't do that.)

This made me laugh, nice disclaimer Leo haha. I'm not finished with this experience and I enjoy it, no need to remove the break peddles.

[SpiritualAwakening]

2 minutes ago, charlie cho said:

We fear death so much because we love it so much also. 

Fear doesn't breed Love.

[SpiritualAwakening]

2 minutes ago, charlie cho said:

@SpiritualAwakening You never felt scared of a beautiful woman you liked so much? 

Even in that example fear doesn't breed love, you might be insecure and unsecure about your position in the situation. What's the relationship between fear and love? You might call it love but is it really?

[BipolarGrowth]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

He didn't need to have depression or even suffering to do what he did. He may simply have wanted to transcend material reality. Of course that's very rare, but this seems like one of those extra rare situations. Which is what makes it difficult to preempt such things. Out of a million people, one guy might think jumping off a bridge is a good idea to get closer to God.

I don’t think this was much of a case of depression or suffering based on what I’ve seen. If it was a case of mental health issues or you’re going to read it that way, disregard this post. 

The real danger here was intense optimism. He saw everything in the way it could go right rather than how it could go wrong. I literally heard the same words said to me by my much older atheistic friend when he was referring to how I kept experiencing mental health issues due to my intense spiritual practices. 

I see this sad event like he was a passionate astronaut thinking that using 100% of his fuel to continue exploring twice as far rather than returning home is worth it because the prize of discovery and adventure is that important to him. 
 

Is it foolish? It depends on what you value. We don’t consider deaths on Mt. Everest suicide. Climbing up a mountain seems like a much more foolish thing to die for than what he was envisioning if he’s even 1% correct in his projections. Jesus could’ve toned it down and lived. Yet we cherish him for facing death for his cause. Many other mystics experienced similar fates at their own choice through the hands of others. Your mention of Braveheart comes to mind as a more secular example. 
 

Our problem with this whole issue is we disagree with how Sunny placed his values into a hierarchy and was willing to take a gigantic gamble for something we personally wouldn’t — at least not in the same way or degree. This whole thread is filled with a stench. And that is the stench of mostly politely concealed judgment and arrogance. So many are looking down at him while giving earnest condolences. Foolish, stupid, overzealous, reckless, inconsiderate, selfish, immoral, the list goes on. Whether held mostly subconsciously or with true intention, many of you had one of these words or a synonym in mind when thinking of his decision and maybe even him. 
 

Remember him how you see fit. I’ll remember him as a true devotee with more courage than I. 
 

RIP to my brother who I hardly knew ❤️. The Holy Spirit already showed me you’re still here. I only wish his family could receive this confirmation rather than me. 

[Ryan R]

15 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Showing compassion and understanding to the deceased is not glorification of suicide. 

Glorification would be if people did not feel sorry or if they cheered such an act and encouraged others to do the same.

However I didn't see that on the thread. Most people expressed regret that it happened. I don't see this as glorification but condemnation and disappointment expressed in a compassionate way.

 

I'm not about to take the time to find it all and quote it, but there has been just a bit of shall I say an overly positive response in some posts in regards to this good man's suicide IMHO. Even if I'm completely wrong about that others looking for justification and encouragement to take their own lives may well read what you or I see as compassion as glorification. 

I read new posts in this forum daily by people toying with the idea to seriously contemplating to truly considering suicide. As I've said, it is an organic part of spiritual development work. In addition self-help and spiritual work draws distraught suicidal people in the first place. This forum if full to the brim of those with death, ego death, and bodily death on their mind.

I'm willing to be a bit of an asshole and say slightly offensive things if it means keeping even one person reading this thread from thinking suicide is the answer to their worldly and/or spiritual challenges. 

It's not personal to you, the deceased, his loved ones, or anyone.

[Blackhawk]

From a utilitarian view it was a bad move, because he wasn't even suffering. So he added a massive amount of extra suffering into the world, unfortunately.

I'm all for suicide if it doesn't cause suffering to others. If it means that the total amount of suffering decreases.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Blackhawk]

6 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

From a utilitarian view it was a bad move, because he wasn't even suffering. So he added a massive amount of extra suffering into the world, unfortunately.

I'm all for suicide if it doesn't cause suffering to others. If it means that the total amount of suffering decreases.

The mourning ones could consciously change this balance, by choosing to not be sad. But of course that's difficult or impossible.

Sunny would definitely not want you to be sad @SoonHei

[RMQualtrough]

46 minutes ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

For himself 100%, selfishness as in the suffering you are inflicting on your kids, wife, family. All just because the mind has convinced you to see what happens if you choose for a 'Conscious death' by jumping of a cliff? This is still attachment and selfishness for something the idea of you has cultivated over time.

I cannot really accept that is the sole motive. Especially in modern times it is rare to think this way since the world is more secular, so generally people only end up with such philosophical outlooks because of freak chance first hand experience, or because they are mentally unwell and looking for answers wherever they can get them.

A lot of people who seek "enlightenment" are probably trying to escape some mental turmoil, so you will find more mentally ill people than usual on these places.

I do not understand this practice as a way to escape suffering. It makes no sense to me. You are killing ego to end suffering? Blowing your brains out will "end suffering" too. These options suck... Total ego death is essentially death as experienced. You cannot live like that every day. You cannot lead an entire life preparing for death.

Really human ego ought to merely be turned down a bit at most, like a volume knob to a level of something like the strength of ego found in a cat or dog.

Subjectively humans like stories and illusions. We get sucked into fantasy land within minutes of a movie starting. Nobody watches a film thinking "IT'S NOT REAL" throughout, because it ruins the movie. Why do that for life?