Soonhei (Member of this community) killed himself to experience Conscious Death. :-(

[charlie cho]

It's definitely advisable to write a compassionate note to Soon Hei. 

But using that compassion to attack a person. That is what has already happened here, and I do not like it. I do not think that is really compassion to Soon Hei nor the person who does such things. Just be loving to Soon Hei and be cool about it. 

And on that note, I send my regards to Soon Hei. I don't know why exactly he did it. I am hoping that it wasn't just because he wanted to advance his spirituality with this pursuit.Either way, I hope he truly finds the thing he is looking for even after what has been already been done. Maybe his next life? Idk. I just hope that the energy he has carried until his death has carried over to his afterlife. I hope... Good luck 

Edited May 20, 2021 by charlie cho

[Gili Trawangan]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@charlie cho Warning: Tread lightly here.

A) I told you that that last video was the most advanced communication I ever made. Things were spoken there that few teachers understand. It is very radical. You are still not appreciating that the things I spoke about in that video are not what you learn from other teachers. There is a tendency to dismiss what I said as, "Oh, Leo is just acting like he's better than others, that's just him acting out, nothing to see here." If that is your attitude, then you did not understand the communication. "There are no others" is an advanced truth you still do not have an understanding of. Like really! You don't get it. You don't get how radical it is. No guru will be there to hold your hand the day you get it. It will send you into an existential spiral despair and horror. Then maybe you will understand.

B) I certainly have much spiritual work left to do. I shoot the video as I am, at whatever development level I am at. I cannot do otherwise. And I have never made any promises or guarantees to you about my embodiment or energy or stage or whatever other standards you evaluate me on. In the end, I'm just a guy sharing his ideas with you. I am not your guru, we have no formal relationship. I'm a YT philosopher. I am on a spiritual journey and I share my insights. That's what Actualized.org is. So set your expectations appropriately. Remember, when I started Actualized.org I was a self-help life coach. Today I am where I am. And who knows where I will be in 5 or 10 years. I make no pretenses about my embodiment or the like. I share my realizations and insights as they come to me. I am also not infallible and not immune to self-deception, as I have stressed many times in the past. So you should think for yourself and verify everything in your direct experience.

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

@Leo Gura Totally agree with B. Like I said, I'm not judging you, nor am I saying you've done anything wrong. I'm just saying that you will continue to grow, so we are in total agreement. I understand that it's not an easy position to be in, your entire spiritual path is on the internet, this can't be easy to deal with. My heart goes out to you, I certainly would have trouble handling it if I were in your shoes (well, I am, aren't I?).

As for A, I've had that awakening. I do understand. I just don't think it should be communicated in that fashion. I had a dissonant experience as I was watching the video. On the one hand, I was seeing the truth in the concepts (as verified by direct experience). On the other hand, I couldn't help but feel that it deserved a deeper more loving way of communicating it. That's all I'm saying. Again, it's not an attack. Everything is Perfection, including your videos and our so-called arguments and discussions here.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Gili Trawangan said:

As for A, I've had that awakening. I do understand. I just don't think it should be communicated in that fashion. I had a dissonant experience as I was watching the video. On the one hand, I was seeing the truth in the concepts (as verified by direct experience). On the other hand, I couldn't help but feel that it deserved a deeper more loving way of communicating it. That's all I'm saying. Again, it's not an attack. Everything is Perfection, including your videos and our so-called arguments and discussions here.

A video on the much misunderstood notion of solipsism has been planned for a long time. I am taking my time with it because it requires a lot of thought.

[Mafortu]

 

1 hour ago, Blackhawk said:

Holy fuck.

He never showed any signs whatsoever of depression or sadness. He was one of my favorites here. I agreed with him more than I do with most other people here.

I'm glad for him.

But I'm not glad for those who he left behind.

When a person has suffered depression for so long, the common visible traits meld into their personas to the point where they are practically invisible even to family members.

I used to cry a lot as a kid, but now crying is a luxury I covet, the pain is still there, I have only been desensitized to it.

[Leo Gura]

He didn't need to have depression or even suffering to do what he did. He may simply have wanted to transcend material reality. Of course that's very rare, but this seems like one of those extra rare situations. Which is what makes it difficult to preempt such things. Out of a million people, one guy might think jumping off a bridge is a good idea to get closer to God.

In a certain sense, the only thing that keeps you alive in the material world is fear. Fear of what would happen if you quit survival. But of course if you quit survival you will not survive! And SoonHei's messages clearly show he understood that, but just didn't care.

Fear of death is precisely what keeps you alive. If you lose your preference of life over death, there is literally nothing stopping you from dying. Even someone who is let's say full enlightened, still must have a preference for life over death, otherwise they would not be around to talk to you. Those people who completely lose their preference for material life will simply disappear from material life. That's how life works. If you don't want it, you lose it. Because life and survival are very active processes. You gotta keep working on survival every day to stay alive. Even if you are woke as fuck. Chop wood, carry water, do laundry.

[Ryan R]

The fact of the matter is that the contemplation of suicide simply goes with the territory of spiritual development. It is a challenge that most every serious seeker must wrestle with and transcend, and some will face it long-term and/or repeatedly; and some will fail to win Freedom without falling bodily by their own hand. This is the case in all awakening work in every tradition and type of teaching. Absolute Life is what we aspire to and to become One with it we must face relative death. To well understand that this is Not a Call or a Cause to Commit Suicide even in the darkest night of the soul when it is very tempting is why a strong disciplined mind must be developed before undertaking hard-core spiritual practices of any sort, including with psychedelics.

It is important that everyone here recognize that the path to enlightenment is both beautifully light and dark. It is strewn with the dead in traps that can bind and snare and kill you too both metaphorically and literally. Learn well the lesson SoonHei died to teach us.
His death must be firmly condemned least we risk it being glorified and worse case scenario such death becomes a theme here. It gives me no pleasure to say he was a deluded fool, a victim of his own spiritualized ego, and it ended his life out of pure fear disguised as lofty spirituality. Know that for a minor turn of fate it could have happened to any of us. Those who Know know it did happen to us. It is loss. It is pain. It is grief and hardship and remorse. Be wise. Learn from this mistake and don't repeat it.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Ryan R said:

he was a deluded fool, a victim of his own spiritualized ego, and it ended his life out of pure fear disguised as lofty spirituality.

We actually don't know this.

Maybe it was lack of fear. If one completely ignores all fear, and all caution, there is little stopping you from jumping off a bridge.

Fear is there for a reason: to keep you alive.

[Thetruthseeker]

This is very sad news indeed. Thoughts with the family 

But the unfortunate truth is that after actualized has millions upon millions of views, it was inevitable that someone who committed suicide was somehow linked to actualized. 
but of course someone who commited suicide could be identified as a ‘forum member’ but could have also been anything else going on in his life. 
 

someone mentioned that Leo should put out a video mentioning SoonHei’s name. I don’t think there’s need for this. 

I remember once someone read an e book I wrote and then blamed me for their depression. It was a long mess of small court, lawyers etc 

For some reason, people are waiting in the wings for Leo and something like this will be exactly what some people have waited for to tear him down. 
It could be blown out of proportion and risk everything. 

[SpiritualAwakening]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

We actually don't know this.

Maybe it was lack of fear.

One of the things was definitely selfishness, which comes back to ego

[Flowerfaeiry]

The psychotic drowns in the same waters in which the mystic swims. Joseph Campbell.

 

I'm not calling him psychotic, btw

Edited May 20, 2021 by Flowerfaeiry

[Preety_India]

Please don't call the guy a fool or other adjectives. 

I see a terrible lack of respect on this thread.

 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

One of the things was definitely selfishness, which comes back to ego

That's also not necessarily true. If he was truly ready to move on from material existence, then staying back for the sake of others would not be proper.

Sadhguru's wife committed Mahasamadhi when they had a young daughter. You could say it was selfish of her, but that's your judgment. You don't know what was right for her. My guess is that Sadhguru does not regard her a selfish. He himself told his followers that he would do Mahasamadhi some time ago.

These things are not as black and white as they seem.

But this much is very clear: IF you care about survival, don't do things which remove every last preference against survival. Otherwise, what will keep you alive? Every one of you has to decide what is the bare minimum survival you're willing to accept. And if that bare minimum hits zero, realize that you are as good as dead. So either change your mind quick or prepare to meet your maker.

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam tell you that if you die you are going to heaven. But who interprets that as an invitation to jump off a bridge?

[Ryan R]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

We actually don't know this.

Maybe it was lack of fear. If one completely ignores all fear, and all caution, there is little stopping you from jumping off a bridge.

Fear is there for a reason: to keep you alive.

This is of course correct, but if we tell all of these nice seekers this some of both the fearless and the fragile ones may go throw themselves off bridges and such. People be impressionable and crazy you know, lol

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Ryan R said:

This is of course correct, but if we tell all of these nice seekers this some of both the fearless and the fragile ones may go throw themselves off bridges and such. People be impressionable and crazy you know, lol

As I told Connor Murphy when he was trying to tell me that I was afraid of his crazy antics, I told him to make a distinction between fear and caution.

If some self-help book tells you to be fearless, does that mean you should disable the break peddle in your car?

You see how easy it is to take an innocent piece of advice such as: "Be fearless" and twist it into: "So I should never use the break peddle and never use condoms."

It's very hard to make advice that fool-proof.

[charlie cho]

@Leo Gura it is not natural to kill one's body nor is it natural to die prematurely. I do not approve of it whether you like it or not. Remember, existence is a natural phenomenon. And nature is not masochistic. Nature does not condone suicide that easily. There is a natural way and there is an unnatural way. And I swear these people in spirituality who are being masochistic to awaken are the most dangerous people. Speaking of the mahatmas, christian monks, and buddhist saints... etc. And especially what has plagued the world are those people who infect others with such presuppositions about Nature. And people cheer on them, unfortunately, so they are easy to propagate. People love masochistic people, because if they see anyone taking care of themselves in a loving way, they feel jealous. I am sure Nature despises such things, to say the least. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by charlie cho

[jimwell]

1 hour ago, charlie cho said:

But at the same time, out of anyone here, I am of the opinion, it is completely one's choice to commit such acts and no one should or should not tell him what to do and control him, indefinitely! I still, will tell him and others, do not feel bad or be angry just because someone has trodden the road of his own, in which in this case, suicide. I don't blame him for committing suicide. I will help him get there and be with him in that lonely road. Any of you blaming others for his suicide and encouraging him and saying his choice is something to be completely accepted and never to be challenged upon is tredding on a path of nihilism: I can be sure.

To tell another person one should be indefinitely be in agreement to one's path is the most arrogant thing and this sort of force over power only breeds more nihilism and hatred. This sort of attitude only demonstrates how much you don't accept other's going on their own path, and you just want everyone to agree with your own. This includes our friend who has just died! I can already feel the energy gliding towards this path, and it is dangerous. A real person who supports our friend's path will right away be honest and truthful to him in the most friendly way. Only a person who does not support the deceased person's path will lie and pretend like what he has done was a very wise choice both for himself and others! I'll give you this simple rule for those who think I'm an asshole, don't lie or pretend to the person you love dearly!

You are wrestling with yourself. And you are gaslighting yourself, me, and others here. Stop it. Don't waste our time, especially in this time of grieving and suffering.

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, charlie cho said:

@Leo Gura it is not natural to kill one's body nor is it natural to die prematurely. I do not approve of it whether you like it or not. Remember, existence is a natural phenomenon. And nature is not masochistic. Nature does not condone suicide that easily. There is a natural way and there is an unnatural way. And I swear these people in spirituality who are being masochistic to awaken are the most dangerous people to be wary of. And especially what has plagued the world are those people who infect others with such presuppositions about Nature. And people cheer on them, unfortunately. People love masochistic people, because if they see anyone taking care of themselves in a loving way, they feel jealous. I am sure Nature hates such behaviors the most. 

That is a classic appeal to nature fallacy. Nature does not care what you do. Nature has no rules.

Mahasamadhi is a classic spiritual tradition and practice. Comparing spiritual behavior of humans with animals is very misleading, because animals do not do advanced spiritual work. Animals also don't suffer in the same ways humans do.

Trust me, if your suffering became great enough, you would kill yourself.

[SpiritualAwakening]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's also not necessarily true. If he was truly ready to move on from material existence, then staying back for the sake of others would not be proper.

For himself 100%, selfishness as in the suffering you are inflicting on your kids, wife, family. All just because the mind has convinced you to see what happens if you choose for a 'Conscious death' by jumping of a cliff? This is still attachment and selfishness for something the idea of you has cultivated over time.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

selfishness as in the suffering you are inflicting on your kids, wife, family.

That is tragic of course. But how do you explain Sadhguru's wife leaving behind her kid and family? Selfishness? Or maybe there is some higher purpose you are not seeing? Or maybe you believe Sadhguru killed her?

[SpiritualAwakening]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 it is not natural to kill one's body

the option to take one's own life is also a part of nature, natural unnaturalness or unnaturalness naturalness.