Soonhei (Member of this community) killed himself to experience Conscious Death. :-(

[captainamerica]

Sorry about your loss. Hope he finds peace.

 

_/\_

Edited May 20, 2021 by captainamerica

[charlie cho]

I really don't think Leo should take this guy seriously. This guy was on the verge of suicide anyways. It happened to be that he was associated with actualized.org in this specific point of time. To be honest with you, @Leo Gura , I don't think this guy was intelligent in the first place if he actually killed himself thinking it will help him spiritually. That's about the most dumbest shit I've ever heard of. He is in fact irresponsible to leave his children and wife like that. Very nonspiritual, in my opinion. 

A real man of spiritual essence would dedicate his life to dying before dying. In what world do you think your ego will die if you kill yourself? Your body will die, but your ego will be left! Your dreams, your past experiences will not die, just because your body has died! 

You will be the same suffering idiot that you were before. Huh....

I know I should be compassionate to him. I don't know if he did this out of spiritual pursuit or out of deep suffering. If it is from suffering, he should be clear that this was not because of actualized.org. If it was for spiritual pursuit, I cannot take him seriously.

I know what it is like to want to kill yourself because of deep suffering! I know it! huh.... I may not criticize him so harshly if this was the case, but still, I will never try and encourage such behavior............. One must look at the muse, his dreams, his love of life, and pursue that muse to the end of the universe, however so painful and full of suffering it might be. That's what makes life so beautiful.... I really say this out of compassion and sadness to the man who had killed himself 

People like Leo who proposes advanced spiritual concepts are met with two kinds of people usually. One are really fucked up psychologically ill people and the other are people who have relatively healthy minds craving for something more essential than their superficial lives. People in between do not come to Leo because they are usually occupied with their jobs, family, and relationships. They don't have time to think about love, happiness, or philosophy. Psychologically ill people need love, happiness, and support, so they leech onto people like Leo. 

This guy who died is obviously the latter. 

I know what it feels like to suffer and really consider killing yourself. I've been there. I was fucking close, yet I solved it because of one attitude. It was mental. All mental. I had a health problem called Chronic pelvic pain syndrome. Search it up, and you'll know how painful it is. I solved it by doing what Eckhart Tolle, OSHO had said. Be loving towards the world, only then can happiness come. How can there be happiness if you hate yourself and the world you live in? 

The compassionate thing to do is not encourage this man's suicidal behavior. Yes, one is sad about it. One wishes it would have been different. Yes, one can feel the suffering of the deceased one. However, do not encourage the behavior of being unloving towards himself and others. In my assessment of the man, he hasn't been so compassionate to himself or the world. Whether the reason was to kill himself for his spiritual quest or to just end his suffering I don't know. If it was the former, I have no words but "tough luck", but if it was the latter, I will have to say, "I wish I could have done better for you even if I never knew you." 

Whatever reason, I feel he should've been more aware of his surroundings and most importantly himself. Consequences follow when one is unaware of the world and himself and is unloving of the world and himself. Let us learn from this man... but not take him too seriously like we are now!

Edited May 20, 2021 by charlie cho

[DrewNows]

Soonhei was and will always be an angel, sending love and light to all those who had the privilege to exchange with him. Please know it had no part in his choice to end his life. His purpose and experience here had long been written, why else could he have been so god damn loving? Keep this in mind all you lovers out there, he is with you in spirit, any and every one of you he touched, is now carrying his creative loving nature. Use it for the betterment of yourself, he surely would be proud 

everyone who felt a deep connection with him, know it’s because you are worthy, you are enough and the divine is with you, tune in and pay him and your soul essence a visit every once in a while, I assure you it will lead to a more peaceful loving life XP

GOD BLESS 

[Preety_India]

Please understand that the family is reading this 

Attacking the guy should be against the ethos of this forum 

Shame on some of you 

Have compassion for the deceased.

This forum makes me angrier

 

 

 

[charlie cho]

@Preety_India Read the whole post I have written. I wasn't attacking the guy. My blunt way of speaking was out of compassion. I am saying, leaving your children like that ain't so beautiful! I say this out of compassion to the guy's family and his children. Think about their family, friends, and children! The suffering he has caused. At some point, he has to be aware the karma he has created which is his wife and children. Now, his children and wife has to bear that suffering their whole lives, and the man will have to discard the karma of leaving his wife and children cold turkey? This is a lose lose situation for him. Lose for his friends and family, and a lose for himself. He has already blown it. It is necessary to call him out and tell him what he had done wrong. When you own child hits another child, you tell him he had fucked up, even when the milk has already been spilled. You tell him he has fucked up, especially when the milk has already been split, because you don't want him to fuck himself or the other child again. Telling him "You have fucked yourself over" is not hatred. It's beautiful. Read the whole post please.

You don't just give him props because he is deceased. Everyone will die, it is not an accomplishment. Even if he is dead, you tell him the truth. Especially when he is dead, you tell him the truth. If you can't be honest with the dead, how can you expect to be honest with life? I am being honest to the dead. You don't just let him slack off in his spiritual growth just because he is dead. 

I play basketball, and I know what is the best thing to do for a player who is struggling at his pinnacle and is emotionally wary and confused. You yell at him as loudly as you can because you love him. You love him so you yell at him and may even beat him and slap him in the face. I know this, because once a coach did this to me. You must understand compassion can be expressed in two ways, not one.

Edited May 20, 2021 by charlie cho

[Preety_India]

@charlie cho people do things for their own reasons. Not everything is about selflessness, selfishness, judgement yaada yaada 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Preety_India

[charlie cho]

@Preety_India I edited my post: added something to it for you to read.

[Preety_India]

@sda look suicide is not a matter of judgement. If I died the last thing I would want is people discussing whether it was right or wrong 

I would simply want people to empathize with my situation and offer compassion for my soul. That's all.

Is this hard ?

Who are we to decide if what the person did is right or wrong ? Most likely it's wrong because it's hurtful 

But the point is not about deciding whether it's right or wrong but understanding why and how it happened and how it could have been prevented and offering understanding, love and compassion and respect to the deceased for their action.

Nobody likes to die. Suicide is just another cry for help, the ultimate cry for help when it's too late.

Can we judge someone for crying ?

 

[jimwell]

7 minutes ago, charlie cho said:

@Preety_India Read the whole post I have written. I wasn't attacking the guy. My blunt way of speaking was out of compassion. I am saying, leaving your children like that ain't so beautiful! I say this out of compassion to the guy's family and his children. Think about their family, friends, and children! The suffering he has caused. At some point, he has to be aware the karma he has created which is his wife and children. Now, his children and wife has to bear that suffering their whole lives, and the man will have to discard the karma of leaving his wife and children cold turkey? This is a lose lose situation for him. Lose for his friends and family, and a lose for himself. He has already blown it. It is necessary to call him out and tell him what he had done wrong. When you own child hits another child, you tell him he had fucked up, even when the milk has already been spilled. You tell him he has fucked up, especially when the milk has already been split, because you don't want him to fuck himself or the other child again. Telling him "You have fucked yourself over" is not hatred. It's beautiful. Read the whole post please.

You don't just give him props because he is deceased. Everyone will die, it is not an accomplishment. Even if he is dead, you tell him the truth. Especially when he is dead, you tell him the truth. If you can't be honest with the dead, how can you expect to be honest with life? I am being honest to the dead. You don't just let him slack off in his spiritual growth just because he is dead. 

I play basketball, and I know what is the best thing to do for a player who is struggling at his pinnacle and is emotionally wary and confused. You yell at him as loudly as you can because you love him. You love him so you yell at him and may even beat him and slap him in the face. I know this, because once a coach did this to me. You must understand compassion can be expressed in two ways, not one.

Your analysis is off. You can be compassionate by being direct and blunt. But being arrogant and a bully is not being compassionate. Your coach bullied you, and now you are bullying others. You are just a typical bully (but self-deceived).

Show some respect to Sunny and his family. Contemplate and be careful before opening your mouth.

[Preety_India]

@jimwell exactly

[charlie cho]

@Preety_India I'm saying this is not Leo's fault. I never said don't kill yourself. Suicide is your choice. I'm saying we have no responsibility over it, including Leo. People blaming Leo for this is utter fucking nonsense. It's so fucking stupid. I feel this energy in this forum where people are blaming Leo. Fuck you. And saying fuck you to these people, people then associate people like me who say, "fuck you" as saying "fuck you" to the deceased guy. We weren't saying "fuck you" to the deceased soul, we were saying "fuck you" to you specifically who blame people who had no responsibility over it.

[SpiritualAwakening]

11 minutes ago, sda said:

@Preety_India In your opinion, do you think that his suicide was a correct act or a mistake?

In the relative sense it's never correct, don't ask that question to someone who's suicidal.

[captainamerica]

"I think to call suicide a cowardly act is to severely downplay the illness of the one who left this world. Their pain must have been so great, their despair so colossal, their path so dark that the only way out they saw was to end their own life."

Hope his family and friends find strength in these dark times. 

[Preety_India]

Neither is suicide a cowardly act nor a selfish one.

And it is not some romantic fantasy either 

It's just hard and cold.

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Preety_India

[charlie cho]

@jimwell before opening my mouth? That's the most arrogant thing I've ever heard of from a person. 

need I explain to an arrogant person? No, but I will try.

Are you really going to take someone seriously when they say they will kill them-self for "experience conscious death"? 

I have specifically said, if that was the reason, one must not encourage this and be critical of such stupidity. 

1 hour ago, charlie cho said:

One wishes it would have been different. Yes, one can feel the suffering of the deceased one. However, do not encourage the behavior of being unloving towards himself and others. In my assessment of the man, he hasn't been so compassionate to himself or the world. Whether the reason was to kill himself for his spiritual quest or to just end his suffering I don't know. If it was the former, I have no words but "tough luck", but if it was the latter, I will have to say, "I wish I could have done better for you even if I never knew you."

this is what I have said. If it was out of suffering, I have compassion. But if it was for "spiritual pursuit". I will still have compassion, but he must have been an idiot. It's an undeniable fact. And people blaming actualized.org for that must be an idiot too. And we need not feel bad for a person who kills himself "for a spiritual awakening". 

I'm more embarrassed that I have replied to your post really than I have replied to all others. Read before you speak, is my reply jimwell, and take the pluck out of your eyes before you judge another. I don't know why I write this to you. 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by charlie cho

[Blackhawk]

Holy fuck.

He never showed any signs whatsoever of depression or sadness. He was one of my favorites here. I agreed with him more than I do with most other people here.

I'm glad for him.

But I'm not glad for those who he left behind.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Blackhawk

[charlie cho]

Anyways, anyone blaming Actualized.org for his death must be absurd. I already can feel the energy of this forum people trying to pull that shit off saying it is somewhat Leo's responsibility. Compassion to the man who is deceased but I don't condone any of his actions and it is an undeniable fact that suicide is not necessarily the wisest choice, and that is a fact! But at the same time, out of anyone here, I am of the opinion, it is completely one's choice to commit such acts and no one should or should not tell him what to do and control him, indefinitely! I still, will tell him and others, do not feel bad or be angry just because someone has trodden the road of his own, in which in this case, suicide. I don't blame him for committing suicide. I will help him get there and be with him in that lonely road. Any of you blaming others for his suicide and encouraging him and saying his choice is something to be completely accepted and never to be challenged upon is tredding on a path of nihilism: I can be sure.

To tell another person one should be indefinitely be in agreement to one's path is the most arrogant thing and this sort of force over power only breeds more nihilism and hatred. This sort of attitude only demonstrates how much you don't accept other's going on their own path, and you just want everyone to agree with your own. This includes our friend who has just died! I can already feel the energy gliding towards this path, and it is dangerous. A real person who supports our friend's path will right away be honest and truthful to him in the most friendly way. Only a person who does not support the deceased person's path will lie and pretend like what he has done was a very wise choice both for himself and others! I'll give you this simple rule for those who think I'm an asshole, don't lie or pretend to the person you love dearly! And do not force others to lie or pretend just to show an appearance of support! That is not truly supporting the journey the other is going through! If you truly want to support wherever the other person is trying to go to, never pretend or lie to them. 

Do not force the other person to agree with you. That is nihilism and bondage. Do not force people to think like you. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by charlie cho

[Gili Trawangan]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I understand some of you feel that way, but I am not here to be who you think I should be.

I see that many of you are into this idea and are frustrated that I don't indulge your ideas of how an ideal guru is supposed to behave. But at some point you will understand that consciousness and love can be expressed in many different ways, not just as a bleeding heart.

To me, mind IS heart.

But I know what you mean and I understand why you want it. But from my POV what you want of me would not be true to who I authentically am. The more conscious I become the more authentic I act, but the more it turns some of you off because it does not fit your image of some happy go lucky blissed out feminine guru who personally loves you.

I don't personally love you. I love you in a deeply metaphysical way which you probably do not feel or understand. And I am not going to try to fake a personal love for you to fit some stereotype of the ideal guru.

@Leo Gura

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

 

People don’t necessarily want you to change, Leo. You are accepted and valued as you are. But, at the same time, what people are picking up on is the energetic level from which your teachings are coming. The last video for me was an obvious example. There’s an emphasis given on being right, on the idea being somehow absolutely true, instead of a more nuanced appreciation of what that message is going to convey and how it will be received. In fact, there’s this notion that the message will NOT EVEN be received, because “there are no others”. This is what people are criticizing. Now, let me be clear, what happened to SoonHei was absolutely nobody’s fault. He seemed to be an independent thinker and was most certainly not a fanboy who decided on a whim to do this. I tend to agree with you that he made his choice and nothing would have prevented it.

However, and to put this in language that everyone here will know very well, Leo’s center of gravity is still Stage Yellow. You have not yet embodied Stage Turquoise (and hey, neither have I, obviously not judging); hence this notion that mind is the same as heart. It is and it isn’t. You’ve had profound glimpses/realizations, but you don’t live from that place, which is why you don’t act with the kind of energy that we ‘get’ from those old gurus/sages. Well, obviously you don’t, you’re a young guy with much to learn and embody. I would guess that 10/20 years from now you will look back on some of this with a different perspective.

Actualized.org is an incredibly valuable place for people who are Stage Orange/Green and it can help them on their way to Tier 2. As far as the more advanced stuff goes, I think there is much to be improved on the delivery, the ideas themselves, and of course, the energy from which they spring. A more loving energy, more in line with what the fabric of reality really is.

This is just an opinion, my 2 cents, just trying to be constructive.

My condolences to SoonHei’s family, he was lovely. Again, he will be missed.

[Leo Gura]

@charlie cho Warning: Tread lightly here.

17 minutes ago, Gili Trawangan said:

People don’t necessarily want you to change, Leo. You are accepted and valued as you are. But, at the same time, what people are picking up on is the energetic level from which your teachings are coming. The last video for me was an obvious example. There’s an emphasis given on being right, on the idea being somehow absolutely true, instead of a more nuanced appreciation of what that message is going to convey and how it will be received. In fact, there’s this notion that the message will NOT EVEN be received, because “there are no others”. This is what people are criticizing. Now, let me be clear, what happened to SoonHei was absolutely nobody’s fault. He seemed to be an independent thinker and was most certainly not a fanboy who decided on a whim to do this. I tend to agree with you that he made his choice and nothing would have prevented it.

However, and to put this in language that everyone here will know very well, Leo’s center of gravity is still Stage Yellow. You have not yet embodied Stage Turquoise (and hey, neither have I, obviously not judging); hence this notion that mind is the same as heart. It is and it isn’t. You’ve had profound glimpses/realizations, but you don’t live from that place, which is why you don’t act with the kind of energy that we ‘get’ from those old gurus/sages.

A) I told you that that last video was the most advanced communication I ever made. Things were spoken there that few teachers understand. It is very radical. You are still not appreciating that the things I spoke about in that video are not what you learn from other teachers. There is a tendency to dismiss what I said as, "Oh, Leo is just acting like he's better than others, that's just him acting out, nothing to see here." If that is your attitude, then you did not understand the communication. "There are no others" is an advanced truth you still do not have an understanding of. Like really! You don't get it. You don't get how radical it is. No guru will be there to hold your hand the day you get it. It will send you into an existential spiral despair and horror. Then maybe you will understand.

B) I certainly have much spiritual work left to do. I shoot the video as I am, at whatever development level I am at. I cannot do otherwise. And I have never made any promises or guarantees to you about my embodiment or energy or stage or whatever other standards you evaluate me on. In the end, I'm just a guy sharing his ideas with you. I am not your guru, we have no formal relationship. I'm a YT philosopher. I am on a spiritual journey and I share my insights. That's what Actualized.org is. So set your expectations appropriately. Remember, when I started Actualized.org I was a self-help life coach. Today I am where I am. And who knows where I will be in 5 or 10 years. I make no pretenses about my embodiment or the like. I share my realizations and insights as they come to me. I am also not infallible and not immune to self-deception, as I have stressed many times in the past. So you should think for yourself and verify everything in your direct experience.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, kieranperez said:

That said man, it might be wise to create some safe guards.

Safeguards had already been in place, and more will be put in place.

I fully agree with having safeguards.

For example, I recorded a video about the dangers of psychedelics last week specifically as a safeguard against abuse. It's in the publishing queue, although now it will have to be delayed.

I have no passion to share ideas with people that will cause harm. The point here is improve one's life.