Soonhei (Member of this community) killed himself to experience Conscious Death. :-(

[Shin]

6 minutes ago, karkaore said:

Stop it already, will you?

Dude jumped off a bridge. Can you please, for once, shut the fuck up?

You guys make me wanna vomit.

I don't know who you're talking about, but Scholar go a point.

Even though, ultimately the decision is not in our hands, and Soonhei may have done it even if Leo and the forum were more careful and upfront about this (physically harming yourself is not necessary at all),

We have all our own share of responsibility to influence a bit more people to do that.
It's not all an individual choice or a collective one, it's both.

So I have to admit, I kinda feel bad right now, because I'm probably the one who used this analogy the most, on top of not directly experiencing it myself.

I'm not guilting myself, but I still kind of feel bad, cause in retrospect, how many people I have influenced to do just what Soonhei did ? Probably a lot.

To the point of actually committing suicide ? Most likely not.

But still, there is an effect that I can't deny, I can't just tell myself that whatever I write has no influence, it does, way more than I can think of.

And we all do.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Shin

[Forestluv]

Please keep in mind that family members may be reading this thread. 

[Dodo]

9 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

He also says he is a 5th dimensional alien lifeform, that he is the literal second coming of Christ, and all sorts. Have you even seen how unhinged and ill he is?

He has been sectioned for psychosis already.

I can totally understand what he means and I would love to speak to him about these stuff. I've had literally so much similar experience as this. This 5th dimension would explain a lot of the crazyness that I was experiencing. I have seen flies that do not exist in "normal reality" and beings that pretended to be people, who had a connected consciousness and I thought were either aliens or really advanced AI. There were also a situation in which I was supposed to do something and the two girls there, after my inaction, were very disappointed at the "Jesus" they had been given. And the very reason I was there in the first place was because I had asked for light body activation and was able to live without eating and sleeping, after which some stuff happened and the forces of darkness captured me and started bounding me. 

Can it really be a mental illness if it is an experience that is repeatable? How can both Connor and me have an experience of being Christ and 5d experiences? Seems to me like it is a spiritual reality rather than a mental illness. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Dodo

[outlandish]

Fuck.

We need to take great steps as a community to inoculate against this kind of thing ever happening again. This is heartbreaking to imagine his young kids growing up without their dad. 

It's one thing to choose to take your own life, but we all live in a network of people who we love and love us back. Death is inevitable, there's no sense in rushing it.

[RMQualtrough]

@Dodo If you were sober and seeing things which aren't there and thinking you are Jesus being attacked by dark forces, I would suggest looking into the possibility of schizophrenia. There's an actual easy at home test for schiz, involving sipping soda while making a certain facial expression.

Connor stops believing he is an alien etc. once he is given antipsychotics. If dark forces are causing you distress, something like Seroquel might make them vanish.

[Windappreciator]

@RMQualtrough Connor is not schizo and that is not a valid test, also neuroleptics are not a help for schizophrenic people.

If i give you enough neuroleptics, you will stop believing 1+1 is 2, so did they make you delusional all the sudden?

Edited May 19, 2021 by Windappreciator

[outlandish]

Let's stay on topic here people, this isn't a thread about Connor, or you.

[Nahm]

5 hours ago, SoonHei said:

@Nahm  NAHM, Sunny was an adult and is responsible for the action he took. I am just presenting what happened and sharing screenshots of his discussion as I found them. I have been on this forum on and off since he died trying to understand WHY he did this to his family. He literally had your name on his dreamboard as well. He trusted your guidance. 

@SoonHei

Again, I am very sorry for your loss. What you are sharing is not the direct communication, it is an edited after the fact, more than once, communication. When I received your message, I messaged Leo asking if it is possible to see the editing history, to try to make some sense of this. 
 

Like you, I could only speculate as to his ‘why’, because whatever that why might have been, it was of his private thoughts. 
 

I do not agree that he trusted in my guidance. If suicide was the ‘lessor of two evils’, I have always suggested expression, talking with someone, taking advantage of all resources available, letting go vs carrying the weight. If his actions were of the thinking of ‘conscious death’, I have commented multiple times offering clarity on this misunderstanding.  
 

Making a dreamboard is indicative of what I suggest, and is about living and creating consciously. I am not per se an advocate of even the “ego death” lingo. 

Also, in terms of trusting my guidance, he never reached out to talk as in have a session. I wish he would have, perhaps he would have opened up if he was carrying a weight, or perhaps found clarity on the “conscious death” philosophy. Again I am speculating here.

This medium of communication is very limiting. I am on the road in the country presently and reception is hit or miss. If however you are interested in chatting on Skype in the future I welcome that. 

[Dodo]

18 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

@Dodo If you were sober and seeing things which aren't there and thinking you are Jesus being attacked by dark forces, I would suggest looking into the possibility of schizophrenia. There's an actual easy at home test for schiz, involving sipping soda while making a certain facial expression.

Connor stops believing he is an alien etc. once he is given antipsychotics. If dark forces are causing you distress, something like Seroquel might make them vanish.

Look its not that simple. I get you and your point of view. But having been there, the actual realness of these things and events is of the same lucidity level as me writing to you right now and on the same waking level of experience. 

In my response to you I only skim the surfice of what happened, because its a long story, so I just said "forces of darkness" to shorten the story. 

I will tell you why I call them that,  in short:

Me, with light body, running on the street, rising vibration and intuition. 

I intuit one man was about to sleep with a little girl and pulled him with superhuman strength, as I wanted to help her. Then he ran away and suddenly a guy appears out of nowhere, hits me on the back and I start running again, as I was very fast. But then police appeared out of nowhere - no cars nothing,  pointing a gun at me to stop, and I did. 

Then they put handcuffs on me and put me in a van. The handcuffs were so painful, they were created to stop someone with an activated light body...  The pain was so sharp, it was like burning. The back of the van was moving in a way to harm me. Nothing outside the van was generated and I thought that this is it- the devil got me and now I will be tortured, so I wanted to end it - i placed my head on the ground, expecting to smash my head from the "bumpy ride" and as soon as I did that, there was no longer any bumps, just smooth road.

Does this seem like normal stuff? Well it did happen and I am not making it up. Trust me or dont, but there are things out there we might not understand, but are real af.

[SoonHei]

@Nahm @Dodo @Leo Gura 

I can tell you no one edited his comments. He was gone. And we were drowning in our own grief and barely got into his email and passwords and eventually this forum.

We wish he never stumbled upon spirituality or any of this stuff. What did he gain? He was already an amazing person. I know I sound biased but trust me. He helped others so selflessly - emotionally, financially, in any way he could. Always did the right thing. Since he was a child. I cant explain him in words here. He even guided people on their spiritual journeys and got them out of depression. Never charged a penny for it. He did everything from the pure goodness of his heart. All this spiritual jargon and ideas only hurt him and his family in the end... He was better off without it and already on the path to "heaven."

His ideas of "there are no others," and life being a dream that one shouldn't get attached to made sense for the most part. But I must say this whole incident has reiterated to me why one should stick with long-established religions such as Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, whatever.... and listen to well-known "Prophets" and their teachings. There is a reason why they have had billions of followers over thousands of years, without needing the internet to spread their message. And their message still gives people the tools they need to lead a good, moral life.

I have personally come to the conclusion that this whole new age spirituality especially on forums and youtube is extremely dangerous. And sadly, no one seems to have thought about talking explicitly about why suicide or hurting one's body is wrong. Needs to be the title of a Youtube video on your channels...

I have no words left... The pain is too much. None of this can bring him back.

Best of luck to all of you in the journey of your lives!

[StarStruck]

Probably it was the psychedelics. People who have depression should be careful. I made a topic on this matter a while ago. 

[Windappreciator]

@SoonHei  This fits the blame narrative too perfectly. I am not sure as to how real this is.

Quote

can tell you no one edited his comments. He was gone. And we were drowning in our own grief and barely got into his email and passwords and eventually this forum.

We wish he never stumbled upon spirituality or any of this stuff. What did he gain? He was already an amazing person. I know I sound biased but trust me. He helped others so selflessly - emotionally, financially, in any way he could. Always did the right thing. Since he was a child. I cant explain him in words here. He even guided people on their spiritual journeys and got them out of depression. Never charged a penny for it. He did everything from the pure goodness of his heart. All this spiritual jargon and ideas only hurt him and his family in the end... He was better off without it and already on the path to "heaven."

His ideas of "there are no others," and life being a dream that one shouldn't get attached to made sense for the most part. But I must say this whole incident has reiterated to me why one should stick with long-established religions such as Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, whatever.... and listen to well-known "Prophets" and their teachings. There is a reason why they have had billions of followers over thousands of years, without needing the internet to spread their message. And their message still gives people the tools they need to lead a good, moral life.

I have personally come to the conclusion that this whole new age spirituality especially on forums and youtube is extremely dangerous. And sadly, no one seems to have thought about talking explicitly about why suicide or hurting one's body is wrong. Needs to be the title of a Youtube video on your channels...

I have no words left... The pain is too much. None of this can bring him back.

Best of luck to all of you in the journey of your lives!

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Tim R]

6 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

This fits the blame narrative too perfectly. I am not sure as to how real this is.

I can't believe I have to say this, but please keep all your speculations to yourself and show some respect and decency. It's not appropriate. 

[QandC]

If this is true, then Sorry for your loss.. really tragic

Edited May 19, 2021 by QandC

[kieranperez]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

I have never supported the notion or concept of Mahāsamādhi

Jumping off a bridge is not fucking mahasamadhi ?? This is not a “conscious death” where one is entering a very powerful state of samadhi and transcends the traces of karmic bonds (which, even that is debatable). This is just suicide and a very irresponsible one at that as a result of needlessly confusing psychedelic states of mind with actual truth. That’s all that is. A reckless abandonment fueled by utter delusion. 

Best wishes to his wife and 2 kids. 

[Eren Eeager]

.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Eren Eeager

[Forestluv]

Please keep in mind family members may be reading this thread

[kinesin]

Here's the issue -

There is a reason why responsible spiritual teachers purposefully withhold advanced teachings from students until they've demonstrated clear evidence of having reached preceding levels necessary to understand them.  There is a reason why a responsible spiritual teacher has a close, in-person relationship with their students.

Leo is not a responsible teacher.  Leo is simply a guy like any of us, a regular person who is trying to navigate his way along the spiritual path.  Why do we fall into the trap of believing that Leo is anything more than this?  Because Leo has turned his personal spiritual journey into a brand, in order to make money.  This public image, the youtube channel with many subscribers, the forum, all of it creates a public perception of 'Leo Gura' which is much larger and more significant than the man himself.

The fact is, many of us here have long seen the warning signs of these dangers.  Not only the most tragic examples such as Connor and Soonhei, but also the countless smaller examples we see nearly every day where a person comes to the forum experiencing mental distress only to be told by Leo, Nahm or others that their feelings and situation are nothing more than a dream.  I find myself pointing out regularly that it is not helpful to simply state advanced teachings as if they are facts, without even acknowledging the mindset of the listener.

Something needs to change.  A personal spiritual journey isn't supposed to be public like this, it isn't supposed to be presented as if it were teachings from an enlightened master.  Spirituality should not be reduced to the status of a brand.  The fact that Leo Gura is generally thought to be a cult leader outside of this community is a major issue - those people are not entirely off-base, they're referring to something which Leo himself is fully aware of.  Because he has a brand and a known public name, Leo's words carry more weight than they are worth, and that is a dangerous thing.

[Tim R]

10 minutes ago, kinesin said:

Here's the issue -

There is a reason why responsible spiritual teachers purposefully withhold advanced teachings from students until they've demonstrated clear evidence of having reached preceding levels necessary to understand them.  There is a reason why a responsible spiritual teacher has a close, in-person relationship with their students.

Leo is not a responsible teacher.  Leo is simply a guy like any of us, a regular person who is trying to navigate his way along the spiritual path.  Why do we fall into the trap of believing that Leo is anything more than this?  Because Leo has turned his personal spiritual journey into a brand, in order to make money.  This public image, the youtube channel with many subscribers, the forum, all of it creates a public perception of 'Leo Gura' which is much larger and more significant than the man himself.

The fact is, many of us here have long seen the warning signs of these dangers.  Not only the most tragic examples such as Connor and Soonhei, but also the countless smaller examples we see nearly every day where a person comes to the forum experiencing mental distress only to be told by Leo, Nahm or others that their feelings and situation are nothing more than a dream.  I find myself pointing out regularly that it is not helpful to simply state advanced teachings as if they are facts, without even acknowledging the mindset of the listener.

Something needs to change.  A personal spiritual journey isn't supposed to be public like this, it isn't supposed to be presented as if it were teachings from an enlightened master.  Spirituality should not be reduced to the status of a brand.  The fact that Leo Gura is generally thought to be a cult leader outside of this community is a major issue - those people are not entirely off-base, they're referring to something which Leo himself is fully aware of.  Because he has a brand and a known public name, Leo's words carry more weight than they are worth, and that is a dangerous thing.

This is true, but one-sided.

In the end, Leo can't be held responsible for anything his followers/listeners do, it's 100% up to them. 

The real danger doesn't lurk in the things Leo says, but in the way people interpret those things. When Leo or whoever else says "life is a dream" or "you're god" or "death is infinite love" or "you're imagining me" or whatever, these statements mean nothing whatsoever, per se. 

I agree with you on the point that "advanced teachings" maybe shouldn't be shared out in front of god and everybody, but even then, there simply is no way at all to make sure that people don't take these things literally or interpret them in ways that are harmful to themselves or others.

[Snader]

I am so sorry for your loss.

A horrific consequence of misunderstanding spiritual work has happened and there is a lot to be learned from this.

My prayers go to the little ones and the rest of the family.