Soonhei (Member of this community) killed himself to experience Conscious Death. :-(

[Scholar]

It should not be surprising, the philosophy Leo is using to describe spirituality is even more radical than this. Connor is a good example of this too. If you say everything is Good and Love, it is simply illogical to claim that it is better to do X.

This philosophy claims to recognize that torture and rape is Perfection. Not just suicide.

 

This is another reason why you ought to be careful about how you construct this philosophy. See, if people truly believe what you say, the might blow themselves up together with others for Jihad.

And then what do you do as a teacher? You say "No no, this is bad PR, this is wrong! When I said everything is Good and Perfect, I actually meant you should behave morally because it's stupid to behave immorally!". Are you sure?

See, because you are contradicting yourself, if someone truly believes what you say with actual conviction, he will laugh at you, as Connor does at Leo when he tries to tell him what he is doing is "bad". Clearly in one moment you say it's bad and in the other you say it's Perfection. You tell him whatever fits your agenda. And he will clearly see this if he truly and fully is convinced that reality is perfection, or that it is a dream, or anything else.

 

See, if reality is a dream, every excuse for why you should not torture someone goes out the window. You can pretend like this is not the case, but it is.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Scholar

[Harikrishnan]

3 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Harikrishnan it doesn't seem like that to me 

It seems REAL.

Nobody will play such games.

If its real am sorry for the loss. my prayers and love to the family. @SoonHeiRest in peace.

[SoonHei]

@Nahm  NAHM, SoonHei was an adult and is responsible for the action he took. I am just presenting what happened and sharing screenshots of his discussion as I found them. I have been on this forum on and off since he died trying to understand WHY he did this to his family. He literally had your name on his dreamboard as well. He trusted your guidance. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by SoonHei

[StarStruck]

@Muhammad Jawad my condolences 

[Ghost]

11 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

Sunny's conversation with NAHM

 

That explains a lot. This is just misunderstanding of spirituality. The mind played him, lost in concepts.

 

Sorry for your loss.

[Preety_India]

@Leo Gura just a heads up. you need to issue stricter disclaimers on both forum and videos that this work needs serious commitment and should never involve any form of self harm or overdose or  suicide ideation. Especially given the Connor incident and now this, such incidents can be on the rise.

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Preety_India

[IAmReallyImportant]

11 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

@Nahm  NAHM, Sunny was an adult and is responsible for the action he took. I am just presenting what happened and sharing screenshots of his discussion as I found them. I have been on this forum on and off since he died trying to understand WHY he did this to his family. He literally had your name on his dreamboard as well. He trusted your guidance. 

If someone had no mental illness and was happy the obvious question arises if it was suicide. Even if the case was closed you can not know it 100%. However, the case of someone falling down a bridge is hard to close even with witnesses. Because, if they would be too close they would help and would not go to police if it wasn't successful or if they didn't tried it because of fear being arrested. If they would be more far away they probably haven't seen important details like what he said e.g.. I ever saw cameras installed on bridges.

He could also be forced to do this etc. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by IAmReallyImportant

[Javfly33]

4 minutes ago, Ghost said:

 

That explains a lot. This is just misunderstanding of spirituality. The mind played him, lost in concepts.

 

Sorry for your loss.

Or he just got tired of material reality ?

Don't understand why people are so dogmatic with suicide. He maybe was happy and have achieved enough emotional freedom and non-attachment. We will never know .

Pd: of course I'm not doing apology of suicide. I'm just we don't was happening through his mind 

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

@Leo Gura just a heads up. you need to issue stricter disclaimers on both forum and videos that this work needs serious commitment and should never involve any form of self harm or suicide ideation. Especially given the Connor incident and now this, such incidents can be on the rise.

 

This won't work. You can't just tell someone "Suicide and self harm is wrong! But also, morality is illusiory, everything including rape and torture is Love and Perfection. And by the way you can't die because you are God!".

 

You give this knowledge to a child, he will cut himself with it. This is inevitable. This is serious stuff here, you can't just market it to the masses and expect everything to go well. The disclaimers are nothing but PR games.

 

There is a reason why spiritual traditions that were successful did not spout "radical truth" to everyone on the street, telling them "You are God, I am God, it's all a dream!". If Buddhism did this it wouldn't exist today. Secondly, these traditions all firmly establish and importance in morality. There is a reason for this, it's not just "stage blue absolutism".

 

None of the stuff Leo is teaching has been tested for more than a decade, nor do we even truly know the results. We have a confirmation bias of people just praising him. You have no idea how many people already killed themselves because of this. But better pretend like it's not your responsibility. I'm sure with an attitude like that, these teachings will stand the test of time.

[Preety_India]

@Harikrishnan my intuition says this is real.

 

[Shin]

3 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Or he just got tired of material reality ?

Don't understand why people are so dogmatic with suicide. He maybe was happy and have achieved enough emotional freedom and non-attachment. We will never know .

Pd: of course I'm not doing apology of suicide. I'm just we don't was happening through his mind 

 

If you're tired of physical reality you can just awaken, you don't need to kill the ego/body.

That way, if there is other sentient beings still unconscious, like we are now, they aren't fucked up by your action.

1 hour ago, Hello from Russia said:

 

[Preety_India]

@Scholar  there will always be a percentage of people who take teachings in the wrong way. Not everyone is doing it. 

People take drugs in moderation to experience states of consciousness. Some people overdose it. 

There is no fault in teaching or teacher.

 

[Javfly33]

1 minute ago, Shin said:

That way, if there is other sentient beings still unconscious, like we are now, they aren't fucked up by your action.

And that is still attachment to other people not suffering ?

 

[Scholar]

3 minutes ago, Shin said:

That way, if there is other sentient beings still unconscious, like we are now, they aren't fucked up by your action.

Right, but you also say that other sentient beings don't exist and are only a figment of your imagination. So what is it? Are there sentient beings that are unconscious and get fucked up by his actions or are there not? I thought it was all a dream that you are imagining?

See how you will squirm and wiggle so that you can uphold your moral beliefs? You claim that morality is delusional, and then you go about preaching like a catholic priest how things are fucked up. But how can things be fucked up if everything is Goodness? Maybe it's you who has to see the Goodness here, and you are just projecting. None of this makes sense, this is why these things happen.

 

2 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Scholar  there will always be a percentage of people who take teachings in the wrong way. Not everyone is doing it. 

People take drugs in moderation to experience states of consciousness. Some people overdose it. 

There is no fault in teaching or teacher.

Yes, and this is precisely why this will all be forgotten.

[Shin]

2 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

And that is still attachment to other people not suffering ?

 

Not necessarily, it can be compassion.

[RMQualtrough]

3 minutes ago, Scholar said:

This won't work. You can't just tell someone "Suicide and self harm is wrong! But also, morality is illusiory, everything including rape and torture is Love and Perfection. And by the way you can't die because you are God!".

 

You give this knowledge to a child, he will cut himself with it. This is inevitable. This is serious stuff here, you can't just market it to the masses and expect everything to go well. The disclaimers are nothing but PR games.

 

There is a reason why spiritual traditions that were successful did not spout "radical truth" to everyone on the street, telling them "You are God, I am God, it's all a dream!". If Buddhism did this it wouldn't exist today. Secondly, these traditions all firmly establish and importance in morality. There is a reason for this, it's not just "stage blue absolutism".

 

None of the stuff Leo is teaching has been tested for more than a decade, nor do we even truly know the results. We have a confirmation bias of people just praising him. You have no idea how many people already killed themselves because of this. But better pretend like it's not your responsibility. I'm sure with an attitude like that, these teachings will stand the test of time.

Then what would be the point of it if you have to just lie or skirt around the truth?

The first truth is that the philosophy does mean that nothing objectively matters if it's true.

The other truth is that this is JUST A THEORY. It is insane to just leap to your death on the back of a theory. It makes no sense at all to be 100% certain.

Lack of objective meaning or morals is a view a lot of people have, even completely irrespective of any spiritual belief, but people generally are not killing people or themselves because of it, largely. Not being able to die is the only novel one.

[allislove]

1 hour ago, Ghost said:

That explains a lot. This is just misunderstanding of spirituality. The mind played him, lost in concepts.

Sorry for your loss.

Yep.

Rest in peace bro ?

[ivankiss]

One of the reasons I'm so triggered is because I feel guilty for spreading information here (about death and more) and not giving too many fucks about how other people perceive it. Which is very stupid.

This is serious business. Your words influence people much more than you might think.

All members should level up (myself included) and become extremely careful and responsible with their posts. Especially when it comes to death.

[Shin]

3 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Right, but you also say that other sentient beings don't exist and are only a figment of your imagination. So what is it? Are there sentient beings that are unconscious and get fucked up by his actions or are there not? I thought it was all a dream that you are imagining?

See how you will squirm and wiggle so that you can uphold your moral beliefs? You claim that morality is delusional, and then you go about preaching like a catholic priest how things are fucked up. But how can things be fucked up if everything is Goodness? Maybe it's you who has to see the Goodness here, and you are just projecting. None of this makes sense, this is why these things happen.

 

Yes, and this is precisely why this will all be forgotten.

Tbh that was just me venting an existential crisis, and yes it was projection.

[Scholar]

Just now, RMQualtrough said:

Then what would be the point of it if you have to just lie or skirt around the truth?

The first truth is that the philosophy does mean that nothing objectively matters if it's true.

The other truth is that this is JUST A THEORY. It is insane to just leap to your death on the back of a theory. It makes no sense at all to be 100% certain.

Lack of objective meaning or morals is a view a lot of people have, even completely irrespective of any spiritual belief, but people generally are not killing people or themselves because of it, largely. Not being able to die is the only novel one.

You don't have to lie about anything. The point is that you can't market this to the masses and be edgily truthful because you think bruteforcing ideology into the brains of clueless people will help them.

It's not at all insane to leap to your death if you are truly convinced of what Leo is saying. It makes 100% sense to be certain when Leo claims you can only trust your experience. I mean what do you think this leads to if you tell this to a person?

 

Yes, people don't necessarily belief in objective morals. But they do believe in their own mortality, and that other beings exist, and that reality contains suffering, and most importantly they lack conviction that all of reality is Perfection. But sure, just ignore this.

 

If you cannot be wise, reality will make you wise through suffering.