What exactly is the illusion?

[roopepa]

Watched Leo's latest video.

So, I'm God, Love/Infinity/Oneness/Nothingness/Consciousness imagining itself to be a human being, living a life, doing stuff, having a "spiritual awakening", learning about stuff, interacting with other people, struggling, surviving etc, because I'm Love. There is nothing else "to do". I'm entertaining myself with a cosmic drama.

For a long time I thought that the illusion was in 'my mind', constructed along the years because of survival. My childhood, all the life experience, has caused me to be stuck in the illusion. But this is part of the illusion, right? Survival, "my mind", "spirituality", "ego", "developmental stages" etc, all part of the illusion? Imagined by Me to keep myself immersed in the cosmic play? What would be the point of spiritual work if there was no struggle?

So what the actual fuck is the illusion really? Am I just in complete self-consciousness imagining "an illusion", spirituality, ego and survival for myself, even though there is no such things? I am already in complete God-consciousness, within, imagining a "lesser" consciousness? The stupidest, most clever thing ever, "as if, but not really".

Get what I'm asking? Feeling a great beauty and "truthness" as I'm writing this. The latest video really woke up something in me.

[LastThursday]

40 minutes ago, roopepa said:

So what the actual fuck is the illusion really?

Even that thought is part of the illusion. The illusion is asking itself if it's real or illusion.

Edited May 19, 2021 by LastThursday

[caspex]

The nature of an illusion is to never be there in the first place. You can't question an illusion because it's never even there by definition.

[Eternal Unity]

The Illusion is Non Existent. Everything IS REAL.

When you DOUBT this - you're opening the door for all kinds of experiences like being a human being, living a life, doing stuff, having a "spiritual awakening", learning about stuff, interacting with other people, struggling, surviving etc.

The Illusion IS Reality, as well.

It's Both.

The BENEFITS of The Illusion is what you really want to understand and that is achieved slowly in the course of years of spiritual practice. Decades, really.

So, keep creating these Truthness Moments as much as you possibly can until it won't be just moments, but extended periods of time. When you're Moment of Truth lasts 2 months, that is when you truly, finally, Catch The Ox.

Hopes this helps, brother

I actually had a "truthness" moment here my self that lasted 3 mins, so that you for that!

Greg.

[VeganAwake]

9 hours ago, LastThursday said:

Even that thought is part of the illusion. The illusion is asking itself if it's real or illusion.

?

or another way to put it:

Nothing is asking nothing is this real or illusion?

[snowyowl]

"Illusion. Anything that seems to be something that it is not." Wiktionary. 

There is 'something' but thought misinterprets it. The illusion is separateness; oneness misidentifying itself as twoness. 

[Being Frank Yang]

On 2021/5/19 at 5:05 PM, roopepa said:

Watched Leo's latest video.

So, I'm God, Love/Infinity/Oneness/Nothingness/Consciousness imagining itself to be a human being, living a life, doing stuff, having a "spiritual awakening", learning about stuff, interacting with other people, struggling, surviving etc, because I'm Love. There is nothing else "to do". I'm entertaining myself with a cosmic drama.

For a long time I thought that the illusion was in 'my mind', constructed along the years because of survival. My childhood, all the life experience, has caused me to be stuck in the illusion. But this is part of the illusion, right? Survival, "my mind", "spirituality", "ego", "developmental stages" etc, all part of the illusion? Imagined by Me to keep myself immersed in the cosmic play? What would be the point of spiritual work if there was no struggle?

So what the actual fuck is the illusion really? Am I just in complete self-consciousness imagining "an illusion", spirituality, ego and survival for myself, even though there is no such things? I am already in complete God-consciousness, within, imagining a "lesser" consciousness? The stupidest, most clever thing ever, "as if, but not really".

Get what I'm asking? Feeling a great beauty and "truthness" as I'm writing this. The latest video really woke up something in me.

It's neither an illusion nor not an illusion. When everything is fabricated then nothing is fabricated.  Eventually Reality just IS, at some point you're going to stop thinking about or labeling Reality as an illusion or x or y.  That's just another ground/illusion ha ha ha.  This whole notion is a giant paradox but saying it's ONLY an illusion isn't really that nuanced. 

[Being Frank Yang]

19 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

?

or another way to put it:

Nothing is asking nothing is this real or illusion?

 You can't get to the bottom of this with the mind.  Beyond the mind Reality is both and neither Real nor not real. 

[Ora]

The illusion is the mind. You have an idea of the mind so you think there is a continuous consciousness that makes up "you." When in reality there are only mind moments that arise and perish, but because of ignorance you think it is your consciousness.

So if you can penetrate the Truth, you will know there is no mind, and will be free from craving states of consciousness which will free you from the cycle of death and rebirth.

[Leo Gura]

On 5/19/2021 at 2:05 AM, roopepa said:

For a long time I thought that the illusion was in 'my mind', constructed along the years because of survival. My childhood, all the life experience, has caused me to be stuck in the illusion. But this is part of the illusion, right? Survival, "my mind", "spirituality", "ego", "developmental stages" etc, all part of the illusion?

Yup

Quote

Imagined by Me to keep myself immersed in the cosmic play?

Yup

Quote

So what the actual fuck is the illusion really?

It's this. It's life. It's the dream that is your life.

Quote

Am I just in complete self-consciousness imagining "an illusion", spirituality, ego and survival for myself, even though there is no such things?

The experience bubble you're in is Absolute Truth. It just has nothing behind it. Like a video game. There is nothing behind the walls, so to speak. It's just a bubble of surfaces that create a perfect illusion of a game world. The world itself does not exist as anything but the appearance of the NOW moment. You can say there is only 1 frame to this movie/game. That frame is Absolute, and you see it now. This frame is God/Universe/Self.

Quote

I am already in complete God-consciousness, within, imagining a "lesser" consciousness? The stupidest, most clever thing ever, "as if, but not really".

You are not in complete God-consciousness, you are in human consciousness.

It's not stupid at all. It's infinitely genius. Otherwise it could not fool you.

[RMQualtrough]

Whenever there is an experience, something experiences it. Find the thing that experiences it. It is purported in these philosophies that nothing TRULY exists other than that. That is everything that ever was and will be.

Everything else is basically a product of that inside of that.

Terms vary on what it is, I've heard the explanations and I find the dogma over the distinctions irrelevant. Some will label Brahman, or God, or I. In meditating religions they don't like to use I because I is a concept/thought and when meditating, whenever the thought of "I" arises you're creating a subject/object split: The thought I, and what experiences the I. This technicality to me is pointless and needlessly confusing.

It is funny that the elaborate words and discussion and infinite threads will almost make you think you are looking for something outside of yourself. When actually it is literally the most basic element of what you are. You are conscious right now as we speak. That is the thing you are trying to isolate.

Edited May 20, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[The0Self]

Simply?

The illusion = (that there is) "something else" (other than: this; what is; everything)

If there seems to be a you, experiencing "your perspective" as ultimately real, it will seem as though there must be "another" perspective, which there isn't.

Edited May 20, 2021 by The0Self

[RMQualtrough]

11 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Simply?

The illusion = (that there is) "something else" (other than: this; what is; everything)

If there seems to be a you, experiencing "your perspective" as ultimately real, it will seem as though there must be "another" perspective, which there isn't.

What you have mentioned here is the element of nonduality which interests me most. The fact of subjective individuation.

Leo in the past I saw theorized that this was because in infinity it must include these perspectives. I found that very clever. I wonder if he has changed his theory on that since then?

I've theorised on it a lot myself. I came to a conclusion that it might not be our selves locked into this being that exists, but rather an """experience of me""". I used a metaphor of electricity running through two hard drives where the electricity represents awareness. The hard drives when the electricity experiences them, is experienced as separate "selves" because the hard drives are only recording information relating to their own self. Hard drive 1 cannot read hard drive 2'a data, even though awareness (electricity) is experiencing both simultaneously...

Then from there switch to dream logic: The experiencer is the dreamer and the hard drives are the characters. But same function.

That is my current theory.

[The0Self]

11 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Leo in the past I saw theorized that this was because in infinity it must include these perspectives. I found that very clever. I wonder if he has changed his theory on that since then?

Well, that's true, it does include perspectives, but it only includes them as appearance, not reality.

i.e. apparent separation does not prove real separation.

There is no other real place and time. It only seems like there is when it seems there's an individual. Individual = false claim: I am here now.

Edited May 20, 2021 by The0Self

[RMQualtrough]

5 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Well, that's true, it does include perspectives, but it only includes them as appearance, not reality.

Have you read up on Kashmir Shaivism? I find this the most accessible. It is more obscure than Advaita Vedanta. All nondual philosophies are essentially identical except in how they present things... In Shaivism they will say not that everything is illusion, but that everything is real, just that it is all "that". So in dream logic they'd say all the characters in the dream are real. Nothing is imaginary. Just it is all made of the dreamer inside of the dreamer exactly like a dream.

Different semantics same meaning.

Certainly it is hard to draw any distinction or line between what is real and what is not. We can agree on what is ULTIMATELY real, that is "the Source", Brahman, God, I, many such terms... How you define the appeaeances to it is down to semantics.

I personally freely flip between them as it suits understanding. If explaining it to an outsider I will use full dualistic terminology with metaphors until the very end then rug pull to nonduality. I've explained it to average Joe friends this way.

Edited May 20, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[The0Self]

19 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Have you read up on Kashmir Shaivism? I find this the most accessible. It is more obscure than Advaita Vedanta. All nondual philosophies are essentially identical except in how they present things... In Shaivism they will say not that everything is illusion, but that everything is real, just that it is all "that". So in dream logic they'd say all the characters in the dream are real. Nothing is imaginary. Just it is all made of the dreamer inside of the dreamer exactly like a dream.

Different semantics same meaning.

Certainly it is hard to draw any distinction or line between what is real and what is not. We can agree on what is ULTIMATELY real, that is "the Source", Brahman, God, I, many such terms... How you define the appeaeances to it is down to semantics.

I personally freely flip between them as it suits understanding. If explaining it to an outsider I will use full dualistic terminology with metaphors until the very end then rug pull to nonduality. I've explained it to average Joe friends this way.

Haven't read that, but yeah, relative is absolute. However, there is no real other place and time. It only seems like there is when it seems there's an individual. Individual = false claim: I am here now. When there's only what's happening, there isn't anything else. It's not even "happening constantly." It's just happening. Apparently.

Edited May 20, 2021 by The0Self