How to cure bloating?

[Ora]

@Vision I'd recommend checking that Dr ruscio guy out. His book explains things clearly and that if you think you have sibo and have enough symptoms, you don't need to know if you have methane or sulfide version and that testing as you see is very hit or miss unless you actually get that invasive procedure michael talked about. Dr ruscio even says it's not always necessary to get testing done, but just jump into the protocol and see your reaction.. The herbal antibiotics bacterial protocol will take care of both types of sibo. I listed supps that I used in an earlier post, but you can get it more simply through the guys website, which may be like 15% more expensive, but it saves you trouble. You can opt to do the 5 day fasting before hand or take his powdered meal replacements, but I recommend you to do it because for me personally it created a huge change compared to supps only, which I started with.

 

[Michael569]

8 hours ago, Vision said:

Have you heard of Gojiman? What are your thoughts on him?

In terms of his content, he gives solid advice on sibo treatment,his gut stuff is really goods 

He however shares a lot of shit videos where he just attacks non-vegans for the stuff they eat. I absolutely hate when they do that. He also looks very sickly and unhappy to me and I struggle to sustain my attention to his videos because of that. 

8 hours ago, Vision said:

What does the jejenum culture aspirate do? What information does it give?

At the moment this is the most reliable and the most sensitive test for diagnosis of SIBO we have. It beats the breath testing but it is more invasive. 

I guess at this stage the answer you are looking for is : do IU have SIBO or not and if you do you need to go heavy after it with antimicrobials, elimination diet and repopulation. The longer you let it untreated, the worse it will generally get. 

 

[Vision]

2 hours ago, Michael569 said:

The longer you let it untreated, the worse it will generally get. 

How much worse can it get? After all this haziness and confusion I’ve gotten a bit demoralised. It’s like I lost my drive to find a fix. I usually get motivated if I realise how severe a situation really is. 
 

At least I know I haven’t exhausted all my options yet. It’s just a matter of money, time, and energy.

2 hours ago, Michael569 said:

At the moment this is the most reliable and the most sensitive test for diagnosis of SIBO we have. It beats the breath testing but it is more invasive. 

How much does it generally cost? Does it cost more than the hydrogen methane breath test?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Vision said:

How much worse can it get?

A lot worse.

Fix it, or you might get cancer or other bad stuff.

[Michael569]

3 hours ago, Vision said:

How much worse can it get? After all this haziness and confusion I’ve gotten a bit demoralised. It’s like I lost my drive to find a fix. I usually get motivated if I realise how severe a situation really is.

Untreated SIBO (if this is SIBO) can progress to all sorts of problems  (if there is also some ongoing intestinal permeability) can pretty much lead to anything including Coeliac, IBD, liver problems, asthma, new types of allergies, depression. 

3 hours ago, Vision said:

How much does it generally cost?

jejunal aspirate is a medical test, your doctor needs to refer you to gastroenterologist (gut doctor) and they need to run the tests. This is what I mentioned before. Take your breath test and ask the gut doctor to interpret it rather than the private lab. Not sure what the medical system looks like where you're based but here in UK medical tests are not charged because they come from your monthly insurance contribution 

[Vision]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

A lot worse.

Fix it, or you might get cancer or other bad stuff.

 

10 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Untreated SIBO (if this is SIBO) can progress to all sorts of problems  (if there is also some ongoing intestinal permeability) can pretty much lead to anything including Coeliac, IBD, liver problems, asthma, new types of allergies, depression. 

Where can I read more about SIBO and the consequences of leaving it untreated? What are some good sources?

The more I read about how badly these health conditions can affect my quality of life, the more I seem to be motivated. Negative motivation tends to motivate me better than positive motivation... for now at least. 

10 hours ago, Michael569 said:

jejunal aspirate is a medical test, your doctor needs to refer you to gastroenterologist (gut doctor) and they need to run the tests. This is what I mentioned before. Take your breath test and ask the gut doctor to interpret it rather than the private lab. Not sure what the medical system looks like where you're based but here in UK medical tests are not charged because they come from your monthly insurance contribution 

Okay great. Thank you! 

[Michael569]

5 hours ago, Vision said:

Where can I read more about SIBO and the consequences of leaving it untreated? What are some good sources?

Get the confirmation of diagnosis first by the gastro doctor and request jejunal aspirate. If it is diagnosed, either look up a holistic gut specialist or get some technical book online that guides you through the protocol. Potentially you could also get in touch with Gojiman. 

If diagnosis is confirmed, the doctor may recommend rifaximin and metrodinazole as a first line of treatment. 

[Vision]

17 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

rifaximin and metrodinazole

I heard those antibiotics are very expensive. Most medicines in my country are funded by the government. Would that be the same for these? 

[Vision]

@Michael569

The stool test that my naturopath gave me is the MetaBiome stool test. Would that be any different from a GI-MAP stool test? 

[Michael569]

@Vision GI Map is a complex microbial screening looking at parasites, worms, viruses, pathogenic bacteria etc. Hard to say how useful it will be here. It is not going to pick up SIBO nor will it confirm but it may give indication whether there is something else going on that could be a source of your problem. GI Map is fairly expensive test thou, not sure how much it will cost in your country. If you can afford it and are willing to burn the extra cash, go for it. 

[Vision]

@Michael569

The difference in price between the MetaBiome stool test and the GI-MAP test was negligible. That is the test she had me get but I’m not sure if they will give the same information.

 

Here is a PDF of a MetaBiome test sample report. Do you think it’s missing anything that the GI-MAP has? Will it give enough information to explain my leaky gut? 

MetaBiome_Microbiome_Gene_Test_Sample_Report.pdf

[Michael569]

@Vision they are both really interesting and there is a large overlay in what they show. 

Where metaBiome is mainly showing balance of microbiome, the GI Map is looking at screening for various potentially pathogenic species, parasites, worms and I'd say for assessment for intestinal permeability, GI Map is probably better. 

But depends on what you fancy more and what is preferable to you. Do you have a sample report of which GI Map would you take, do you have a particular company? Could you share it? 

[Vision]

8 hours ago, Michael569 said:

But depends on what you fancy more and what is preferable to you.

I just had to go with what my naturopath made me get. She’s the one that’s interpreting it.
 

8 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Do you have a sample report of which GI Map would you take, do you have a particular company? Could you share it? 

Yes, here’s a sample report.

2206-Complete-Microbiome-Mapping..pdf

[Michael569]

@Vision thanks!

I'd be more inclined to take the later one. The information seems more practical. Is it expensive? 

The trick here with intestinal permeability is that we currently don't have a tests that are very reliable nor is there a medical gold standard. There is a Zonulin test (which is part of this) but there is also Dual Sugar Assay (seems to be better) and Polyethene Glycol (which may be the best but is rarely available). 

Does the company offer either of those two? May be combined with the one above would give you a nice picture (depends on cost of course). I would specifically ask them what tests do they have available for intestinal permeability. 

[Vision]

3 hours ago, Michael569 said:

I'd be more inclined to take the later one. The information seems more practical. Is it expensive? 

The MetaBiome test was $430 and the GI MAP test was around $600. 

Unfortunately I didn’t really have much freedom as I had to purchase them via practitioner recommendation. I think I would’ve bought the GI MAP test if I could.

3 hours ago, Michael569 said:

There is a Zonulin test (which is part of this)

Which is part of what? The MetaBiome test or the GI MAP test? 
 

This clinic does do a Zonulin test for like $160

3 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Dual Sugar Assay (seems to be better) and Polyethene Glycol (which may be the best but is rarely available). 

Did a google search for these in my area and haven’t found any.

 

My Organic Acids Tests results should be coming soon. What information could it give? 

[Michael569]

3 hours ago, Vision said:

My Organic Acids Tests results should be coming soon. What information could it give? 

Honestly, my personal opinion on OAT is that Organic Acids are pretty much based on in-vitro research nearly 100%. It is a nice way for functional medicine doctors to make extra money but there is no way to interpret the results accurately enough. Any of those metabolites could literally mean 10 different things. Don't get me wrong, the amount of information you get is impressive and it is accurate but all those acids can be elevated or reduced for a multitude of reasons and you need a highly experienced practitioner to help you translate those results into something meaningful. 

I used to think OAT was a great and valuable tests but then I took deeper dive into all those metabolites and I don't think so anymore. There is literally no useful evidence to the majority of those markers which means we are assuming that just because something does something in a petri dish it means the same thing happens in the human body. It's like saying "I like astronomy so I should have been called to help design the Hubble Telescope" 

But maybe along with your previous tests and symptomology it can give some indication of what's up. 

3 hours ago, Vision said:

Which is part of what? The MetaBiome test or the GI MAP test? 

the one called complete microbiome mapping. 

3 hours ago, Vision said:

Unfortunately I didn’t really have much freedom as I had to purchase them via practitioner recommendation.

yes this doesn't surprise me. Lack of attention to client's need is quite notorious in the holistic health industry 

[Vision]

6 hours ago, Michael569 said:

my personal opinion on OAT is that Organic Acids are pretty much based on in-vitro research nearly 100%

What’s in-vitro research?

 

[Vision]

8 hours ago, Michael569 said:

It's like saying "I like astronomy so I should have been called to help design the Hubble Telescope" 

Sorry, I don’t quite understand.

[Vision]

@Ora Have you cured your SIBO?

[Vision]

@Michael569 Can untreated SIBO lead to other diseases? What could it cause?