Jewish Professor shuts down crocodile tears

[Joel3102]

Relevant to today’s events. Powerful clip 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Joel3102

[Preety_India]

Is he suffering Stockholm Syndrome?

 

This is probably the craziest thing I witnessed on this forum.

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Preety_India

[cookiemonster]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

Is he suffering Stockholm Syndrome?

 

This is probably the craziest thing I witnessed on this forum.

 

 

Why?

 

[Preety_India]

6 minutes ago, cookiemonster said:

 

Why?

 

Looks like he is ranting or a mental breakdown. He is okaying the sufferings of Jews, almost downplaying it by not acknowledging it.

 

[cookiemonster]

4 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

He is okaying the sufferings of Jews, almost downplaying it by not acknowledging it.

 

Eh?

That's not what he's doing at all.

Finkelstein's relationship with the Holocaust deserves a particular respect because of the direct involvement of his mother and father as survivors of both Auschwitz and Majdanek respectively. This is in addition to the total extermination of his extended family on both sides.

What he's doing is calling out the hypocrisy and moral vanity (and as a direct consequence of the lessons learned through his mother and father) of those who wax lyrical about Jewish suffering (without direct experience) and yet stay silent or refuse to educate themselves impartially about the Palestinian issue, particularly in regard to operations in Gaza circa 2008, 2012, and 2014.

To say that he's downplaying suffering, or experiencing Stockholm Syndrome or having a breakdown, is nothing short of outrageous radical ignorance: precisely the dangerous kind of ignorance that he was trying to draw attention to.

Maybe you should learn a bit more before making trigger-happy judgements:-

 

 

 

 

 

[Preety_India]

@cookiemonster I was commenting very superficially to the video. Yes I maybe a bit ignorant on the Gaza conflict issue, but his outrageous reaction, almost screaming from the top of his lungs doesn't help his case 

What caused my trigger happy reaction was calling the woman's tears crocodile tears when she could be genuinely distressed and using words like"holocaust card" is very offensive and can easily be interpreted as downplaying the sufferings of Jews. 

And a lot of racist people come up with defenses like "I've a black friend, or I could be associated with blacks," however such justifications do not make the actions or comments less racist.

In this case, the guy should come from a place of respect if he wants the audience to take his point seriously. He is deliberately destroying his own cause by using language that is insinuating rather than pacifying.

So my trigger happy reaction kinda stays 

Not a good candidate for making people understand the two sides better by disowning the sufferings of one side 

[Tetcher]

7 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@cookiemonster I was commenting very superficially to the video. Yes I maybe a bit ignorant on the Gaza conflict issue, but his outrageous reaction, almost screaming from the top of his lungs doesn't help his case 

What caused my trigger happy reaction was calling the woman's tears crocodile tears when she could be genuinely distressed and using words like"holocaust card" is very offensive and can easily be interpreted as downplaying the sufferings of Jews. 

And a lot of racist people come up with defenses like "I've a black friend, or I could be associated with blacks," however such justifications do not make the actions or comments less racist.

In this case, the guy should come from a place of respect if he wants the audience to take his point seriously. He is deliberately destroying his own cause by using language that is insinuating rather than pacifying.

So my trigger happy reaction kinda stays 

Not a good candidate for making people understand the two sides better by disowning the sufferings of one side 

She's a young student, world war 2 was over for 30-40 years before she was born. What is the suffering she went through that you are referring to ?

She was gaslighting the ongoing exactions of Israel with something she never experienced for herself and he called her out for her hypocrisy that's all. His strong emotion about it comes from the fact that his own parent were direct victims of holocaust so he's much closer from the "holocaust card" than her yet he can recognize the abuse that Israel is inflicting to Palestinians.

[Preety_India]

@Tetcher she could be suffering from generational trauma.

Slavery was long ago. Doesn't mean modern generation black people don't carry the scars and trauma 

 

[Tetcher]

2 hours ago, Preety_India said:

@Tetcher she could be suffering from generational trauma.

Slavery was long ago. Doesn't mean modern generation black people don't carry the scars and trauma 

 

What would happen if we didn't teach history in schools and black people wouldn't know about slavery, would they still carry the scars and trauma ? And in any case most people can't know whether they are descending from a slave unless some genealogical tree was made, maybe they are descending from a family that remained free.

@ryanth you keep making new accounts to say that Palestinians were offered x% of the land and they refused. If that was true then the Jews would have taken (100-x)% and stuck to it, but we've seen over the decades is that they kept expanding, settling illegally and discriminating. Beside a more fundamental question is that the Palestinians where already on that land so why should they accept even 1% ? 

[Preety_India]

@Tetcher history is passed down through ancestors.

 

[Scholar]

Ah, this also happens when you call the animal holocaust a holocaust and people go crazy over it saying it's downplaying what happened in WW2, and then you pull the utlimate jewish holocaust survivor card who calls what happens to animals an eternal treblinka.

Ironically it is those who condemn comparing these things to each other who are the ones using these atrocities to justify their own actions.

[cookiemonster]

 

In this more recent clip Finkelstein explains the reasons for why he used the term 'crocodile tears'. To quote one part:-

Quote

"First of all the young woman was not Jewish. Many people think I was lashing out at this young Jewish woman. No, she was German. And I found it deeply offensive that a German was telling me, the son of Nazi Holocaust survivors, how I should be talking about the Nazi holocaust."

 

[Joel3102]

@ryanth

20 minutes ago, ryanth said:

 

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-and-non-jewish-population-of-israel-palestine-1517-present

Look at a timeline of the Jewish demographics of Jerusalem. It dramatically increased from the turn of the century from a small minority to 82% of the population in 1948. That kind of ethnic displacement is very rare and it the source of the issue, because it basically resulted in Arabs being evicted.

Whilst not perfect, the Jews lived relatively peacefully under Ottoman (Islamic) Middle East. See point 3 below

https://www.vox.com/2015/5/14/18093732/israel-palestine-misconceptions

 

[Joel3102]

@ryanth Throughout the Middle Ages Christian society was generally more anti-semitic than the Islamic world.

The Jews even fought alongside with the Muslims against the crusades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_the_Crusades

Whilst there is 100% a lot of anti-semitism in the Middle East, it's not as black and white as Muslims hate Jews and the West doesn't

[DocWatts]

Despite the rhetoric of religious hatred that gets thrown around on both sides, what's happening in Palestine is %100 a political conflict, whose root cause is British colonialism in the wake of World War 1, and the desperation caused by European Anti-Semitism and the Holocaust.

Anyone who believes that the dispute is due to religious hatred that stretches back thousands of years (with the implication that there's nothing to be done about it) is either ignorant of History, or is being flagrantly dishonest.

Edited May 19, 2021 by DocWatts

[TheSomeBody]

why the west is so black and white thinking ,the fact that israel doing problematic stuff doesnt mean that we need to legitimate a terrorist organisation. it is not like nazi germany when people there wanted to see all of the minority die

[cookiemonster]

15 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Despite the rhetoric of religious hatred that gets thrown around on both sides, what's happening in Palestine is %100 a political conflict, whose root cause is British colonialism in the wake of World War 1, and the desperation caused by European Anti-Semitism and the Holocaust.

Anyone who believes that the dispute is due to religious hatred that stretches back thousands of years (with the implication that there's nothing to be done about it) is either ignorant of History, or is being flagrantly dishonest.

That's not necessarily true.

To say that it is 100% a political conflict doesn't account for the eschatological pursuits of either the Christian Zionists nor the broader (Judaic) Messianic Zionists, both of which require a Jewish State as a necessary condition for the fulfilment of biblical prophecy.

While it may not involve religious hatred stretching back thousands of years, the incipient desire for a Jewish State by certain religious schools absolutely goes back thousands of years, and it is very unlikely that any political desire for a Jewish State would have succeeded without the economic or logistical support from any of these Messianic groups.

And on the subject of Political Zionism, the idea in root-cause being British colonialism is something of a convenient and recently-become-fashionable smokescreen. For one thing it understates the passions of the early Political Zionists who were already building the structures of delivery right from the very moment Theodore Herzl put pen to paper in 1896 - a good 20 years prior to any of the events of WW1 and almost 50 years prior to the Nazi Holocaust.

In fact, there are some who believe that Political Zionism has always been merely a front for the Christian Zionists (and broader Messianic Zionists) and that Herzl was merely supplying a political narrative that the ordinary European Jews could get behind.

[DocWatts]

@cookiemonster That's fair. Obviously I'm well aware that religiously motivated Jews thought of Palestine as thier ancient home, and that Zionist Christians who had religious motives for seeing the Jews return to Palestine (as a prerequisite for Biblical Prophesies of the Rapture).

My point wasn't that religion played no role as a motivating factor (obviously it did), but that the hatred between Jews and Arabs is relatively recent, and due to a political conflict of interests, rather than irresolvable religious differences that go back thousands of years.

I would argue however that the only reason that religiously motivated Zionism got any traction at all was for pragmatic political reasons, stemming from the situation in Europe in the 19th and 20th Century. Sure a small and fragmented religious community may have had a desire to set up a homeland in a region where people were already living, but without a powerful State (ie the British Empire) with vested political interests in the region, it would have remained the dream of a  stateless people who lacked political power.

It was also my understanding that many of the early Zionists were cultural (rather than religious) Jews, including Theodor Herzl; in a similar way to how Einstein was a non-religious Jew.

No World War 1 (and World War 2), no Israel state. No persecution of Jewish minorities by European/Russian political powers (often done for opportunistic political reasons), likely no Israeli state. 

You do make some good points though, and I may have overlooked how Religious motivations (for both Jews and Christians) were intertwined to some degree with the political situation, so I'll revise my statement to the Conflict being primarily Political.

Edited May 19, 2021 by DocWatts

[Tetcher]

3 hours ago, Preety_India said:

@Tetcher history is passed down through ancestors.

 

Maybe you or me are the descendants of slaves or other pains. How would we know ? We simply strive to do well in this life without being on a vendetta.

[Preety_India]

@Tetcher it's about trauma not vendetta.