Who are some modern mystics who know what God is?

[RedLine]

According to Leo, some of the most reputed teachers of these days like Shinzen Young, Peter Ralstom, Daniel Ingram or Kenneth Folk "don´t know what God/Infinite Love is" 

 

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

People like Shinzen Young, who spent 40 years in Vipassana deconstructing sensations are not God-realized. I questioned him very carefully. He does not understand what God is. He's a sweet and beautiful man, but God-realized he is not, and I don't want you to get trapped in that way.

People like Daniel Ingram also do not understand what God is -- even though Ingram has extraordinary technical meditative skill. Technical meditative skill is not good enough. Losing the ego is also not enough. What's missing is a holistic universal comprehension achieved by Infinite Mind. 

On 12/12/2019 at 2:02 PM, Leo Gura said:

As great as Ralston is, he don't understand that Truth & Consciousness are Infinite Love.

Maybe it's because he's too autistic.

 

 

Who knows what God is these days apart from him? (it is not a rethorical question)

Edited May 18, 2021 by RedLine

[kinesin]

I'm not sure that Leo thinks anybody really, truly understands it other than himself.

[Consilience]

I would argue Shinzen Young does have a pretty powerful degree of God Realization. He routinely talks about Emptiness and Love and God being one in the same. You have to read between the lines with his talks, but the understanding is there. Furthermore, I would argue his mind is much more integrated and in resonance with God Realization than Leo's because of all of his meditative work. Shinzen can sit and easily do a 4 hour SDS sit because of how deeply he understands reality, the nature of experience which is none other than God. 

There is much, MUCH, more to God than peak experiences. There is something to be learned through deep, silent, still, long, manual practice. 

[Being Frank Yang]

Leo places "God Realization" at the end of the path, I place No Self at the end and anything God related as simply an experience/by product of an authentic Realization of No Self (which again despite what some people believe this is actually extremely rare. Hence I make the distinction between temporarily transcending the self via meditation and psychedelics vs a permanent Realization of dropping away of self) and to me most people who think they're GOd Realized are simply having an experience from the separated state.

But if you truly Realized God and not just a peak experience, then it is the exact same thing as No Self.  Absolute Infinity = Absolute Nothingness = Love = Death = Reality.

Here is my very simple stages of Awakening that might help put things into perspective.

1.  I Am/Identification of ego (everything below Turquoise) Contracted sense of self that stuck inside the head and behind the eyes.

2. I Am Awareness/Consciousness, which is the identification to the Witnessing of 1 (Stream Entry)

3. I Am God/Infinity/Universal Mind And Love. Identification of God. I Am Everything.

4. I Am Nothingness/Emptiness. Total loss of identity. An extremely nebulous sense of self

5. Enlightenment/ True No Self.

5, An authentic Enlightenment is the UN-ALTERED STATE of Consciousness aka Natural State, which dis-identifies, includes but transcends all the previous stages.   This state is what Osho calls "Beyond Enlightenment", completely ordinary, yet in many sense even deeper than the Universal Mind stage. 

One thing i agree with Leo is that there aren't a lot of teachers out there who's Realized the "Loop", as in they'll talk about emptiness and no self but they are missing the "Form"/"Infinity/Love" aspect of it.  After my Awakening it was a surprising to me how nobody seems to talk about Strange Loops, or what I call the direct moment to moment experience of "Infinity/Universe Fucking/Eating Itself through and through, Cosmic Snake Biting It's Own Tail", Actually almost all the people who talk about this are people who's experienced it on 5meo DMT. And my natty Awakening seems closer to 5meo DMT than Vipassana dry insights (a more fair statement is the combination of all the practices I've done that leads up to it). 

My take is that most teachers, even if they've embodied the Strange Loop of God simply don't place a lot of emphasize on it because they see it as a by product of Enlightenment and not the end goal. It could also be that few "close the circuit" of Absolute Infinity/Absolute Nothingness, Big Bang/Big Crunch etc 

My question is, WHO CARES?!! LOLOL

Edited May 18, 2021 by Being Frank Yang

[Being Frank Yang]

2 hours ago, RedLine said:

According to Leo, some of the most reputed teachers of these days like Shinzen Young, Peter Ralstom, Daniel Ingram or Kenneth Folk "don´t know what God/Infinite Love is" 

 

 

 

Who knows what God is these days apart from him? (it is not a rethorical question)

To me a full Realization of IT requires both a "scientific" and an "artistic" approach.  Most teachers either leans towards one side.  The complete merging and fusion of emptiness and form is very rare indeed.

[RedLine]

1 hour ago, Being Frank Yang said:

Leo places "God Realization" at the end of the path, I place No Self at the end and anything God related as simply an experience/by product of an authentic Realization of No Self (which again despite what some people believe this is actually extremely rare. Hence I make the distinction between temporarily transcending the self via meditation and psychedelics vs a permanent Realization of dropping away of self) and to me most people who think they're GOd Realized are simply having an experience from the separated state. Here is my very simple stages of Awakening that might help put things into perspective.

1.  I Am/Identification of ego (everything below Turquoise) Contracted sense of self that stuck inside the head and behind the eyes.

2. I Am Awareness/Consciousness, which is the identification to the Witnessing of 1 (Stream Entry)

3. I Am God/Infinity/Universal Mind And Love. Identification of God. I Am Everything.

4. I Am Nothingness/Emptiness. Total loss of identity. An extremely nebulous sense of self

5. Enlightenment/ True No Self.

5, An authentic Enlightenment is the UN-ALTERED STATE of Consciousness aka Natural State, which dis-identifies, includes but transcends all the previous stages.   This state is what Osho calls "Beyond Enlightenment", completely ordinary, yet some many sense even deeper than the Universal Mind stage. 

One thing i agree with Leo is that there aren't a lot of teachers out there who's Realized the "Loop", as in they'll talk about emptiness and no self but they are missing the "Form"/"Infinity/Love" aspect of it.  After my Awakening it was a surprising to me how nobody seems to talk about Strange Loops, or what I call the direct moment to moment experience of "Infinity/Universe Fucking/Eating Itself through and through, Cosmic Snake Biting It's Own Tail", Actually almost all the people who talk about this are people who's experienced it on 5meo DMT. And my natty Awakening seems closer to 5meo DMT than Vipassana dry insights (a more fair statement is the combination of all the practices I've done that leads up to it). 

My take is that most teachers, even if they've embodied the Strange Loop of God simply don't place a lot of emphasize on it because they see it as a by product of Enlightenment and not the end goal. It could also be that few "close the circuit" of Absolute Infinity/Absolute Nothingness, Big Bang/Big Crunch etc 

My question is, WHO CARES?!! LOLOL

Well the point is you state God is just an experience arising and passing (an experience that can be trascended for stages 4 and 5) and not the essence of reality. Leo think God is the essence of Reality. I think the distinction between the two positions is clear and not possible to make compatible  which I see you optimistically are trying to do haha. 

 

 

 

 

[Anon212]

Surely yogis are God-realised? I mean if you read some of the stuff they are capable of doing, it seems as though it would be impossible without God-realisation. I mean Ramakrishna had to create a false desire for food to hold onto his body...? Isn't the pinnacle of consciousness associates with literal death (despite death being an illusion). Of course I am biased as hell, I want my favorite yogis to be god-realized because they have impacted me so profoundly. I would recommend, "more than a life", it's about Sadhguru... Really crazy shit in there.

[vladorion]

The ones who truly know don't say much about it because nothing can be said about it.

[blackchair]

10 minutes ago, vladorion said:

The ones who truly know don't say much about it because nothing can be said about it.

[Inliytened1]

19 minutes ago, vladorion said:

The ones who truly know don't say much about it because nothing can be said about it.

Right all language is finite.  If you are truly God Realized it's done.  All of this- this forum - stages of development- all of it - is just for entertainment.  Teaching others is entertainment.  That's it.  

[blackchair]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Right all language is finite.  God is prior to all of this.  All of this- this forum - stages of development- all of it - is just for entertainment.  Teaching others is entertainment.  That's it.  

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, blackchair said:

Stages can be valuable though  - until  they are not.  One awakening is not going to do it. It takes a lot of awakenings and then a lot of integration afterwards.  And then even then your consciousness can deepen.  It can do that for infinity.  But when you do become conscious of Oneness it's done.    Talking about it with others or trying to enlighten them becomes entertainment right away - at that point its just God becoming more conscious of itself.

[blackchair]

17 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Stages can be valuable though  - until  they are not.  One awakening is not going to do it. It takes a lot of awakenings and then a lot of integration afterwards.  And then even then your consciousness can deepen.  It can do that for infinity.  But when you do become conscious of Oneness then talking about it with others or trying to enlighten them becomes entertainment right away - at that point its just God becoming more conscious of itself

im just scared at what depth God will take me....

[Being Frank Yang]

2 hours ago, RedLine said:

Well the point is you state God is just an experience arising and passing (an experience that can be trascended for stages 4 and 5) and not the essence of reality. Leo think God is the essence of Reality. I think the distinction between the two positions is clear and not possible to make compatible  which I see you optimistically are trying to do haha. 

 

 

WEll but see experiences ARE part of Reality.  On the Absolute level it's the same thing but DURING the process it's easy to get carried away with experiences of God from the separated state instead of using that new opening whether it's Consciousness or Awareness or God to continue the dissolution of separation.  When it's all said and done all experiences, all labels, all Realizations are allowed, but when you try to be Everything before you truly become Nothing it's hard to manifest Love/God and any of the stuff Leo speaks of at their purest form

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Being Frank Yang

[Being Frank Yang]

2 hours ago, RedLine said:

Well the point is you state God is just an experience arising and passing (an experience that can be trascended for stages 4 and 5) and not the essence of reality. Leo think God is the essence of Reality. I think the distinction between the two positions is clear and not possible to make compatible  which I see you optimistically are trying to do haha. 

 

 

 

 

Well the point is you state God is just an experience arising and passing (an experience that can be trascended for stages 4 and 5) and not the essence of reality. Leo think God is the essence of Reality. I think the distinction between the two positions is clear and not possible to make compatible  which I see you optimistically are trying to do haha. 

 

 

WEll but see experiences ARE part of Reality.  On the Absolute level it's the same thing but DURING the process it's easy to get carried away with experiences of God from the separated state instead of using that new opening whether it's Consciousness or Awareness or God to continue the dissolution of separation.  When it's all said and done all experiences, all labels, all Realizations are allowed, but when you try to be Everything before you truly become Nothing it's hard to manifest Love/God and any of the stuff Leo speaks of at their purest form

[Being Frank Yang]

2 hours ago, Anon212 said:

Surely yogis are God-realised? I mean if you read some of the stuff they are capable of doing, it seems as though it would be impossible without God-realisation. I mean Ramakrishna had to create a false desire for food to hold onto his body...? Isn't the pinnacle of consciousness associates with literal death (despite death being an illusion). Of course I am biased as hell, I want my favorite yogis to be god-realized because they have impacted me so profoundly. I would recommend, "more than a life", it's about Sadhguru... Really crazy shit in there.

Yogis and mystics and sages are God Realized, they're the people who are riding and have tamed the "bull of enlightenment". But there's more to go. Such as letting go of both the self and bull, returning to Source, becoming an Absolute Normie without any halos on their heads.  See most of the energetic and kundalini stuff you experience on the Path are just by products of dissolution.

https://o-meditation.com/2010/09/08/what-is-beyond-enlightenment-osho/

osho speaks about dissolving even god and enlightenment and the stages that follow.

moving from stage 3 to 4 and finally to natty state, which again i must emphasize does not exclude all previous stages, but by this time they are all entertainment. And right, there is absolutely nothing profound to be said about IT. And nobody wants this. 

Everybody wants to be spiritual, nobody wants true freedom

Edited May 18, 2021 by Being Frank Yang

[Being Frank Yang]

1 hour ago, Tim Ho said:

I think the degree of realization is more important than the types.   Leo said many times, we can't really reach to the end. 

 

God and No Self are just two facets out of infinity number of facets.   Godhead, No Self, How Reality made, Being may come later.    Common one like Consciousness, Love, Happiness, Heaven,  Perception, Authority, Equality, God, Hope, Truth.... often come before them.  

 

THat depends on what you mean by "the end", there is an end to the Insight/Wisdom axis of development...when Reality penetrates itself and the Strange Loops closes in on itself through and through there really is nowhere to go after that.

but the character can always be emptied out more, and you can always learn how to make better pancakes

[SageModeAustin]

@Being Frank Yang how do u feel now that you are "awakend" "enlightened" are there tons of girls wanting to fuck u? are u in a relationship? whats ur mental stability at? do u wake up everyday like feeling like ur tripping? what has noticeably changed in ur day to day life? ur no longer bored? u no longer desire anything? 

[Thought Art]

Lee Holden, Vernon Howard

Edited May 18, 2021 by Thought Art

[Being Frank Yang]

1 hour ago, Being Frank Yang said:

THat depends on what you mean by "the end", there is an end to the Insight/Wisdom axis of development...when Reality penetrates itself and the Strange Loops closes in on itself through and through there really is nowhere to go after that.

but the character can always be emptied out more, and you can always learn how to make better pancakes

a good visual representation of the state