Can tier 2 SD regressed?

[Manusia]

Can yellow thinker regressed? Sometimes I use yellow thinking but oftentimes regressed.. I see the problem is I need to really fully integrate lots of lower value of the SD in my psyche so the yellow thinking is not so much blind spot. I just sense something isn't right and fully ready to be a solid yellow. Lot of aspect of lower SD value is throwed to my shadow, I realized now. I think I need to addresed lot of lower stage especially blue that I always try to evade due my own reason. But unintegrated blue value cause a lot of trouble in how I interact with my enviroment that mostly solid blue and especially my own emotional stability. The feeling in system thinking with unhealthy value is just.. like riding a motorcycle with unhealthy machine, its walk ugly and doesnt feel right to ride.

I'm sure at the times is not orange, I'm really self aware about how I construct the meaning that I choose to be and how it will react back and forth with the enviroment and mental conditonal that I currently have. But who knows.. 

Anyone have experience on this?

 

 

 

(*OOT)

My current value

Red : 7% fap addiction that lead to some implusive behaviour. Working on it, have a bet with a friend with same issue. Holding a fap for a week lol. When I feel weak, I listen to russian village boys, DJ blyatman.. vibe with it and have the power. Red integration make me say what I really need to say truthfully. Its really important to suppress opinion for people like me. Now I can say and hold my thought and even fight for what I see is true if it really necessary. Stand dont want to be oppresed, not good for your mental wellbeing for not holding thight your true value. Sometimes if it happened you just dont know yourself and what you want. And its lead to huge confusion that really toxify because its the root. I learn the hard way.

Blue : 30% learning blue is really important. Its just feel more in the ground knowing blue essence. And become really understood how blue people think. Most of them just want love for the goods of other. The sarifice is from a good intention, a good sweet heart. And its still good, really good. Know the limit. You still a self that need a huge individuality. Understanding blue is a big impact, individuality blue (if its the right phase) have a really good moral value. Strong inner guidance. Knowing what one need the most during the big strom is really needed. Stay grounded and strong to the deep of the heart.

Orange : 20% deep down I really know I have great ability to fit in orange society. I naturally know which is the way to make more money. But I couldnt handle lot of orange toxicity. Need to have me in the place that have good orang flow. Lot of blind spot in this.

Green : 40% tarot, new age, chakra, kindness, heart centered, healing, to the feminine, heart meditation, spirit guide, energy, soul mate, twin flame. Thats really a meat! I understand since childhood the deep essence in this green value even though my enviroment that time barely touch the orange. I know it instinctively. The downside is, my childhood is not so good.

Yellow : 3% sometimes I got there. Feels amazing right? detached and just aware, constructing and deconstructing.. moving the subject with many different frame. 

[Raphael]

I think it can if a Yellow thinker doesn't exercise its mind enough. But, if it happens it's probably because of environmental circumstances. Someone's spiral development will fluctue depending on the challenges that this person is dealing with. I'm currently dealing more with stage Blue and Orange challenges, so I'm a bit less into Yellow than usual.

[tatsumaru]

You can certainly regress. Walter Russell was especially concerned that having romantic and sexual relationships with incompatible individuals or individuals of lower consciousness quality could result in regression and the fall of whole civilizations. That which is relative is always subject to change. That which is absolute isn't. You have to take care of your relative aspect for without your efforts it will return to the mud. Personally I wouldn't be as concerned with not practicing systems thinking than I would with practicing tier 1 things. It is your attachment to tier 1 that brings you down not the lack of tier 2 exercises.

[Manusia]

41 minutes ago, Raphael said:

I think it can if a Yellow thinker doesn't exercise its mind enough. But, if it happens it's probably because of environmental circumstances. Someone's spiral development will fluctue depending on the challenges that this person is dealing with. I'm currently dealing more with stage Blue and Orange challenges, so I'm a bit less into Yellow than usual.

Yeah I totally agree! I see myself be more in touch into yellow from watching Yellow youtuber.. and contemplating the mechanism concept. Maybe yellow thinking is like muscle?

I think we have common challange in this development. 

 

[Manusia]

40 minutes ago, tatsumaru said:

You can certainly regress. Walter Russell was especially concerned that having romantic and sexual relationships with incompatible individuals or individuals of lower consciousness quality could result in regression and the fall of whole civilizations. That which is relative is always subject to change. That which is absolute isn't. You have to take care of your relative aspect for without your efforts it will return to the mud. 

That is really huge information for me. I can relate with this. I have ex with very strong orange and little bit of green. The problem is she not really grow in the spiral anymore, she is holding me back actually.

41 minutes ago, tatsumaru said:

Personally I wouldn't be as concerned with not practicing systems thinking than I would with practicing tier 1 things. It is your attachment to tier 1 that brings you down not the lack of tier 2 exercises.

Still making sense of this.. in my mine it doesnt work that way. Because I think with practicing system thinking.. I will automatically practice detachment too. 

[tatsumaru]

7 minutes ago, Manusia said:

That is really huge information for me. I can relate with this. I have ex with very strong orange and little bit of green. The problem is she not really grow in the spiral anymore, she is holding me back actually.

Still making sense of this.. in my mine it doesnt work that way. Because I think with practicing system thinking.. I will automatically practice detachment too. 

In my experience, as long as you are an independent free thinker, not clinging to belief systems and dogma you will naturally progress on the spiral without the need for artificial effort. Most of tier 1 is about belief systems (Religion, Law...) and isms (Capitalism, Communism...) Tier 2 is about becoming conscious of the dynamic nature of relative reality and of the need to think, improvise and adapt to the present situation not to follow rules blindly like a robot. You were given the gift of brain so the only rules that apply to you are the rules of natural law, everything else are various control structures and belief systems. Don't worry too much about it. I became a systems thinker before I even knew of spiral dynamics simply by thinking for myself.

Edited May 18, 2021 by tatsumaru

[soos_mite_ah]

3 hours ago, Manusia said:

I see the problem is I need to really fully integrate lots of lower value of the SD in my psyche so the yellow thinking is not so much blind spot. I just sense something isn't right and fully ready to be a solid yellow. Lot of aspect of lower SD value is throwed to my shadow, I realized now. I think I need to addressed lot of lower stage especially blue that I always try to evade due my own reason.

The whole thing with yellow is that it can see the value of the other stages. Which is why integration is all the more important. I was in a similar position a couple years back where I had a little bit of yellow thinking but I still had hang ups in orange and green that I needed to either address or exhaust. Normally, regression happens when we weren't fully in a stage or if we become stressed and use the coping mechanisms of the previous stage because of a lack of integration. We regress at times of stress because those times reveal the parts the pressure points we need to work through. So that's perfectly normal.

The deeper you go into yellow and the more you plug in the issues you had in the previous stages, you will regress less, and even if you do regress, you won't regress nearly as much. For example, one time I was in early yellow and I had something stressful come up and I regressed to orange and got super productivity oriented to deal with the problem. Another stressful thing happened to me recently that was similar to the previous situation but this time since I was deeper in yellow, I did regress, but I regressed into green instead. 

Just make sure when you integrate and exhaust the previous stages that you do it in a healthy way and that you try to implement the values of the lower stages from an elevated point. I know that might sound confusing but here's an example: 

At one point I had issues with discipline and productivity, so in other words I had a stage blue/orange hang up. I remember that I tried to integrate this aspect using stage blue/orange methods which involved being strict/rigid with myself, being perfectionistic, and overall being harsh. While I was trying to integrate a healthy aspect of blue/orange, I was going about it in an unhealthy way which to say the least didn't end well. What helped me instead was taking a more gentle and systemic approach to build discipline rather than brow beating myself. In other words, I integrated a stage blue/orange value in a green/yellow way.  

[Manusia]

2 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Just make sure when you integrate and exhaust the previous stages that you do it in a healthy way and that you try to implement the values of the lower stages from an elevated point. I know that might sound confusing but here's an example: 

What do you mean exhaust? Is every lower value really need to be exhaust? I think of this for a while.. I think the thing that really need to be exhaust is the toxic one until we realized its is not right and became conscious about upper value.. Is am right?

[Carl-Richard]

If this forum had a spirit animal, it would be a tiger in a leopard suit 

[kieranperez]

It depends on what exactly it is you mean by that. 

First off having a 2nd tier stage development (which, depends as to which line of development you're talking about), as with any stage of any line of development, doesn't mean you don't have access to lower stages of development. You can be at adolescent level of development in terms of the maturation of your own ego but that doesn't mean that if you break your leg very badly in a skateboarding and have a compound fracture you won't experience some infantile sense of total helplessness if you're by yourself. Evolution is holonic and hierarchical and so you don't necessarily lose things that were gained at lower stages. You just build on top of them.

So you can be at 2nd tier and still have an Orange shadow or aspect of your development (depending on which line we're referring to - there's no such thing as just "I'm orange" or whatever, that's a gross overgeneralization) that might be running a muck in your life based on certain addictions and allergies that might playing out for a variety of reasons which are usually specific and unique to each individual. 

That said, you can also be at say Orange or even Amber (Spiral Dynamics Value stage Blue) and be indoctrinated in a Green ideology. So the person's ego development may have Green programming but their actual ego development is really Orange or Amber. 

The cases you're talking about where there's a "regress" its usually one of two things: 

• They were never at that stage to begin with. They merely seemed to be at that stage. 
• They have sort of shadow acting out that is not conscious that reflects an addiction that can be mapped out and reflect something from a lower stage that was neither integrated nor developed. 

[Girzo]

You are what you are and grow at you own pace. You don not regress, it's just how growth looks like.

Not this:

But this:

[blackchair]

my normies Always gets me in check, #grateful 

[soos_mite_ah]

1 hour ago, Manusia said:

What do you mean exhaust? Is every lower value really need to be exhaust? I think of this for a while.. I think the thing that really need to be exhaust is the toxic one until we realized its is not right and became conscious about upper value.. Is am right?

By exhaust I mean get it out of your system and explore it entirely to where you naturally out grow whatever it is you're exhausting because you see the limitations or because you've reached the point of satisfaction to where you don't feel the need to chase for more. 

No, you don't need to exhaust every lower value, just the ones that you find yourself resonating with or drawn to. For instance, lets say that there is a part of you that desires success and material wealth. While it's good to know that success and material wealth isn't the main point in life, completely supressing it could lead to creating shadows. Instead, you can have your success chasing phase and enjoy nice things but not having those be the center of your life. Or another example maybe, lets say you're in a stressful situation and you want to turn to organized religion and devote some of your time delving into that to derive a sense of hope. You can still do that while recognizing the limitations of religion and still using your critical thinking. When you get that out of your system, you can be more receptive to a higher value because you don't have your impulses clouding your judgement anymore. 

Also while you  don't need to exhaust every lower value, I'd say that it doesn't hurt to explore a stage to it's entirety to get everything out of it. I've been in stage green for a while and for the longest time I was skeptical of new age spirituality, tarot, and astrology. While I can't say that I really resonate with those things completely, it did help me open up to my emotions more and try to utilize critical thinking in the form of intuition instead of solely relying on rationality.  

Edited May 18, 2021 by soos_mite_ah