The Explanation Of "you Can't Die"

[dice]

It is often said that you can't die because you are not the body. BUT it's still fact that you won't FEEL anything after the body died right? Nobody can tell me that you felt something ever before you were born. So yeah.. nothingness never dies, but it isn't relevant to say that is cool, because after your body died your senses are gone and you need a medium to feel life right?

Edited November 3, 2016 by dice

[dice]

That's right, but don't you need a body to feel something?

[Leo Gura]

@dice Feelings will of course stop. They stop every night in deep sleep.

The issue here is that you're identified with feelings. So you're attaching significance to no-feeling.

Also, Nothingness is NOT anything you think it is. It's not nothing. It's consciousness. You have to experience it for yourself to appreciate the significance of this. It's the most extraordinary thing!

When you're conscious of Nothingness, the notion of death seems silly. Until that point, it's very hard for the mind to even imagine how that could be possible.

You need some direct enlightenment experiences to resolve this.

[Telepresent]

This strikes me as a great example of the terminalogical problem of the word "I". @dice, @snick, @leogura, I (heh) suspect you are all using the words "I", "you", and "we" with very different meanings. It may be tempting to say "you can or cannot such-and-so", but given the breath of interpretation of the simple word "I" why not check we're all on the same terms?

@dice - you say 'you' won't feel anything when 'you' die. Strikes me you're assuming two different versions of 'you' there. Have you fully defined then?

[Leo Gura]

@Telepresent There are really only 2 meanings for "I":

1) "I" in the conventional sense that most people use, which is the ego. The identification with body/mind. Identification with a physical being. This entity does not exist whatsoever, although it appears to.

2) "I" in the nondual or spiritual sense which almost nobody understands because they've never experienced it. This is the True Self, pure consciousness, God, Absolute Infinity, or Nothingness. This none-thing is beyond existence and non-existence. And it's the only Truth. There's nothing else but it. And it has no properties whatsoever. It's what you actually are.

[dice]

With "I" I mean nothingness / consciousness. And as nothingness I thought you need a body as a "medium" so to speak to experiencing life.  I (the ego) just wanted to know what it feels like after the body died, not just the ego. If it is the same as before you were born then this "you can't die" is pointless to say because i as nothingness didn't feel anything before my birth, although you say there is consciousness. But yeah.. i try to have some direct experiences.

Edited November 3, 2016 by dice

[The]

there's more to it.. You're only telling part of the story, part of the truth.. 

I think they just want my sexy body.. Sorry I'm kinda attached to it, I think I'll keep it.. 

Edited November 3, 2016 by Vegeta

[Grasshopper]

@dice

You've already had this experience when you go to sleep and wake up in the morning. From the perspective of awareness, what happens? The body that goes to sleep. But in your direct experience, you never experience deep sleep, only the next conscious moment after deep sleep. Awareness is always awake. It's a constant stream of conscious moments.

So if you follow that logic, when the body dies, you wouldn't feel nothing, instead you'd instantly experience the next conscious moment of something, perhaps a new body or something else.

[Leo Gura]

@dice No, it's not like that. Your understanding of what occurred "before birth" is coming from ego, not from nondual awareness.

The whole problem here is that currently you're not conscious of what you were before you were born. You assume you know, but actually you don't! It's not what you imagine. If you ever do become conscious of that, it will blow your socks off!

One way to define enlightenment is as you realizing what you were before you were born.

It's only pointless to say from the ego's perspective because by definition the ego cannot see outside itself.

Imagine that all your life you thought you were a human being, and then one day you realize that actually you were the vacuum of empty space the whole time. Now you feel great, because you cannot die. How does an empty vacuum die? It can't! The body can die just like your car can get stolen, but it's not a big deal since you aren't the car or the body. For someone who totally identified with the body, this doesn't make sense, because you REALLY think you're the body! You actually think that's a physical fact of reality, when in fact it's just an idea.

If you succeed in dropping that one idea, death will literally become impossible. Of course dropping that one idea entails your entire understanding of reality getting flipped upside down. You have to stop being human and become Infinite.

[ajasatya]

@dice how was your original face before you were born?

[Joel3102]

I recently had two days where I felt I was enlightened. I discovered that I literally CANNOT die. It was like I couldn't believe I've gone my whole life thinking I was born and will die! I was more certain of this fact than the sky being blue.  Bizzare experience for somebody who's been a hardcore atheist most of their life.

 

However it wasn't reallly a positive experience... it kinda tripped the fuck out of me. Like what??? I have to live forever??? Mind blown. 

[AlwaysBeNice]

It's a ridiculously special, bizarre PROFOUND existence we've created right here, pff. 

But aside from the ultimate nature of reality, you also have soul: www.evidenceforthesoul.weebly.com

[dice]

@Leo Gura But if you are this vacuum of empty space, why you (the vacuum) observe the body of "leo" and his surrounding? Why you can't observe a person or other objects in india or a fish under the ocean? An empty space without a connection to bodies has to be everywhere, so tell me what's going on in south africa as soon as you're fully enlightened.

Edited November 4, 2016 by dice

[Leo Gura]

@dice Do the work and discover the answer for yourself. This is like a puzzle. You gotta sit down and spend 1000 hours figuring it out for yourself.

Reality is a lot more mysterious and counter-intuitive than you ever imagined.

[The]

Never mind 

Edited November 4, 2016 by Vegeta

[Extreme Z7]

Ideas are nothing on this topic. Simple direct experience should be your only focus to find the truth of existence.

[The]

2 hours ago, Extreme Z7 said:

Ideas are nothing on this topic. Simple direct experience should be your only focus to find the truth of existence.

One thing I find, I guess funny is people can explain the infinity of a drug experience but can't explain this and enlightenment even though they've experienced it just the same.. 

Everyone to busy trying to be philosophical 

Edited November 4, 2016 by Vegeta

[Space]

8 hours ago, dice said:

@Leo Gura But if you are this vacuum of empty space, why you (the vacuum) observe the body of "leo" and his surrounding? Why you can't observe a person or other objects in india or a fish under the ocean? An empty space without a connection to bodies has to be everywhere, so tell me what's going on in south africa as soon as you're fully enlightened.

 

[Joel3102]

@Leo Gura I accept that the real Self doesn't die. What I still don't understand is what the brain has to do with it!? Why does this awareness need a brain to manifest, therefore making it seemingly obvious that consciousness is created from the brain???

[vizual]

13 hours ago, dice said:

It is often said that you can't die because you are not the body. BUT it's still fact that you won't FEEL anything after the body died right? Nobody can tell me that you felt something ever before you were born. So yeah.. nothingness never dies, but it isn't relevant to say that is cool, because after your body died your senses are gone and you need a medium to feel life right?

Who is it you think that is feeling/seeing things right now in your experience? If it is a person, where can you find this person located in your direct experience?

You are not a body, you are not a thought, not even the seeming continuation of these things. You can't die because you were never there in the first place. Imagine seeing an intact eggshell, you immediately assume there is eggwhite/yolk in it, or a developing chick. But when you open it up you see it's totally empty, you just imagined the contents. When you see someone die, nothing really dies because there was nothing in that body that has any true substance that made that body a "person".

The same goes for the concept of time. You assume your life happens within this container of time. Like time is this force that is propelling this universe from time-slot A to time-slot B every moment, and that "you" are just being dragged along with it. That's what people assume, but is that really true in your direct experience? With the concept of time people automatically assume there was a world before they were born and a world after they die. But again, this supposed world that exists somewhere in time, isn't really there. There is just consciousness, and it is not a 'thing' or a person.