"If you can't explain it, you haven't understood it well enough"

[caspex]

I have a feeling this applies to realizations as well. And the "It's indescribable" is just an excuse. I have had realizations too that I can't describe to someone who hasn't had them, and also ones that I can't describe to someone that have had them(Because I can't tell they have had them.). But I have a feeling that's just because I don't understand it deeply enough to be able to communicate it. Maybe if understood deep enough, one could communicate it to people without using language. 

[BipolarGrowth]

This is true for beginning and intermediate stages, but I think it falls apart when looking at the deepest kind of awakenings. When words haven’t even been made yet to describe something or the most applicable words have tons of unrelated connotations, you really can’t do much to transfer this information via language. 

[kinesin]

I agree with you, it is always possible to provide insight to another person.  The main issue is one of time and effort - there are many realizations where in order to properly communicate it to another person, you might have to physically and mentally guide them through a process which doesn't even have an upper time limit.  It could take many decades or more.

A good teacher understands that there are many ways to prompt realizations of insight in another person.  Sometimes it is enough to simply give them a description of it, other times you can tell a story or a parable, or give practical directions for them to do which may at first seem unrelated to the question, but will regardless lead them to an understanding of it.

[Mason Riggle]

For some things, experience is the only teacher. 

Imagine trying to explain to someone who has never eaten anything banana flavored what 'banana' tastes like.  All the words in the world will never do 'the experience of tasting a banana' justice. 

[caspex]

3 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

For some things, experience is the only teacher. 

Imagine trying to explain to someone who has never eaten anything banana flavored what 'banana' tastes like.  All the words in the world will never do 'the experience of tasting a banana' justice. 

Yes, but in that example, you understand the experience well enough to know how to communicate it. That is, to get a banana and feed the person. But with spiritual realizations, often times, it's hard to just deliver the experience. What I am saying is, if you understand deep enough, it might be possible that you can directly deliver the experience, even if momentary. I have heard stories of yogis pushing on the chest and delivering temporary realizations, therefore I speculated. 

[Mason Riggle]

@Swarnim sure. And you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it (forgive the mixed metaphors). 

 

 

[Jacobsrw]

6 hours ago, Swarnim said:

I have a feeling this applies to realizations as well. And the "It's indescribable" is just an excuse. I have had realizations too that I can't describe to someone who hasn't had them, and also ones that I can't describe to someone that have had them(Because I can't tell they have had them.). But I have a feeling that's just because I don't understand it deeply enough to be able to communicate it. Maybe if understood deep enough, one could communicate it to people without using language. 

I would suggest this could very well be a fallacy. Why assume a thing beyond the confined limits of language can be merely explained by them? By definition, words are them self a secondary limitation of experience itself.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Jacobsrw

[Consilience]

Explain red to someone who's color blind. If you can't, you don't understand it well enough.  

In general this does apply, but not for everything. Perhaps not for the deepest truths. Perhaps this has less do to with one's understanding and more to do with the inherent limitations of language. In general though yes. Concision and simplicity about complex topics can be a sign of powerful understanding. 

[caspex]

@Jacobsrw @Consilience Thing is, I said in the post that maybe we could communicate it without language. I never said about communicating through language exclusively. What if you understand it enough to directly deliver it without the use of language? 

Even when explaining something with language, you never give the understanding to someone ofcourse, they realize it themselves as they are their supreme authority. Only difference between a good and bad explaination is relative to the one explained. If the one explained is guided most efficiently according to him/her, then it's a good explaination. What this means is that every person takes their 'path' to any kind of understanding, and a good teacher is 'good' not because they know how to know about a topic, but rather ways you DONT know the topic. Because if you are familiar with HOW one doesn't understand something, you can guide them easily.

 But since I am talking about understanding God(the teller and knower and the known), what if understood deep enough, you know exactly how to take someone to enlightenment without even using language. Bcz you understand the mechanisms of how most humans don't get it, and also how the unique ways the individual doesn't get it too. (I mean this is what we try to find when trying to tell something everytime). 

I know I am speculating but like, this logic is what me got to speculating about this in the first place. And specially because I have also heard people directly delivering realizations or 'making it easier' through energetic initiations etc. 

[RMQualtrough]

I seek out toad reports, and it was Leo's valiant attempt to humanize the trip as much as possible which gave me a respect for the man. Because he didn't just brush it under the carpet as "CANNOT BE EXPLAINED!" Anyone who makes at least a serious attempt is commendable.

IME I have found what you are saying true to a degree. The first time I used Salvia and DMT the abstractness was difficult to explain. It was not only repeated use but specifically and especially using doses which were JUSTTTT below a proper trip where I had enough faculties to think, and the effects were mild enough as for me to get precisely what is trying to begin happening. I can describe Salvia SUPER well now... DMT much harder because of variation between trips.