Questions About God-Realization & Psychedelics

[The Mystical Man]

I loved the new video. It might be one of the best so far. But there are a few things that I've been struggling with for a while. When I started to take this work more seriously three years ago, I really cared about going all the way. I didn't want to end up like those students that go up to teachers and say something like, "I've been meditating for forty years. Why am I still not enlightened?" I wanted to get there as quickly and as efficiently as possible, and I also wanted to go all the way; I didn't want to get stuck somewhere.

So when Leo talks about the power of psychedelics, that makes those substances very attractive of course. But I find it difficult to glorify these substances. I also can't demonize these substances, because I had significant experiences with psychedelics. The reason why I cannot glorify psychedelics, however, is because for some reason it just feels wrong. I always ask myself these questions: What are the unseen consequences of using psychedelics? What are psychedelics essentially doing to the body-mind?

On psychedelics, you can temporarily transcend your karma and experience the purity of life. But psychedelics cannot eliminate your karma; that'd be too good to be true. What if that has karmic consequences, however? What if you get to experience pure life for a heavy price that you cannot even imagine yet? What if the price is more karma in the long-run? Difficult life situations and calamities? Now you could say that that is all just imagination, and, of course, it is. But it's not really useful to say to everything, "That's just imagination." When you're standing at the edge of a precipice, you could say that it's imaginary that you will die when you jump. But that's a useful imagination. It doesn't even have to be a precipice and impending death. It could be any life situation that you can get yourself into without knowing what the consequences are. The question is: What are you getting yourself into, unknowingly, when you take psychedelics? Perhaps you get to momentarily transcend everything in the short-run. But what if the price is a hundred more lifetimes in the long-run? A hundred imaginary lifetimes, but a hundred lifetimes nonetheless. The rules are all imaginary, but the rules still apply, and the rules feel very real. Now, of course, I don't know what the rules of taking psychedelics are. Maybe there are no negative consequences at all. Maybe this is all just unnecessary fearmongering. I'm very open to taking more psychedelics, if that truly is the best method for going all the way. I just wanted to get this out of my system, and I also want to see what others think of this. 

[Leo Gura]

And what if flying in a plane has unseen karma for lifetimes and lifetimes?

What if flying in a plane just seems wrong?

What if God wants you to walk everywhere barefoot instead and you are violating his divine plan?

Where do your "what-if" games end?

If you are so worried about it, then don't fly in planes.

[Osaid]

What if drinking water adds unseen karma for lifetimes? That's just a guessing game.

I think the pay-off for psychedelics is very simple: It throws you into a high state of consciousness, without any regard for your level of development. It allows you to experience a high state of consciousness, regardless of whether your ego is ready for it or not, which is why so many people go "crazy" or go through ego backlashes after psychedelics. Normally, you would gradually develop your baseline state of consciousness until reality starts slowly revealing its truth to you, whereas psychedelics force truth onto you. It allows you to bypass years of spiritual practice, but that also makes it harder for you to embody that insight. It's the difference of jumping straight into a cold shower instead of slowly cranking down the temperature from a warmer shower. 

[Depersonilized]

@The Mystical Man Psychedelics are simply a tool to become wise as long as it's taken seriously. Wisdom is sourced from experience, and psychedelics obviously give you the experience lol. What needs to be pointed out is the experience means absolutely nothing if it is not integrated, so yes, while a psychedelic experience is not going to cure you in the long term on its own, if you're putting in the work in integrating all that seriously there shouldn't be an issue. 

It should also be noted that understanding the insights alone is not wisdom. Wisdom is the act of embodying truth/Truth through action. Thats why pairing psychedelics with other practices like meditation, self-inquiry, etc., is a must. There needs to be a level of maturity going into the experience, so if you feel you are ready, go for it. There's nothing to fear. 

[The0Self]

@The Mystical Man The levels that can be traversed with psychedelics + meditative and contemplative skill puts that achieved with meditation/contemplation alone to shame. If your goals are high enough, meditation/contemplation alone is just like trying to be a world class Olympic weightlifter without using anabolic steroids. And yeah, it is dangerous to do what it takes to achieve the highest goals.

Edited May 16, 2021 by The0Self

[Pateedm]

Why do psychedelics exist?

Why'd ya put them here? 

[The0Self]

3 hours ago, Pateedm said:

Why do psychedelics exist?

Why'd ya put them here? 

For real though.

Some might think you’re kidding, lol.

[BipolarGrowth]

28 minutes ago, The0Self said:

For real though.

Some might think you’re kidding, lol.

First God Consciousness experience — oh, I created mushrooms for the sole purpose of waking myself up for the first time ever right this very moment...

[Salvijus]

@The Mystical Man I think similar to you 

If psychedelics could cut dacades of practice short then spiritual traditions would've done that looong time ago. Why would anyone meditate for years to reach happyness when you can pop some pills and be in extasy without doing anything? It's because it reduces human life for worse in the long run and doesn't bring about the fulfilment that human life is truly longing for. 

Evolution of consciousness takes a certain time. A tree has it's pace of growing, body has it's pace of growing, awareness and soul has it's own pace of growing. You don't expect a tree or an infant to reach it's full growth in one day by doing some chemical engineering. All life has to move through every stage of growth organically step by step, the way nature intended. And if you're in tune with a natural way of doing things then a spiritual path becomes a joy every day. Just rising your consciousness 1mm everyday makes you so fulfilled. Everyday is better then before. Enlightenment is not a sprint, it's a marathon. End goal is not even important. Living a fulfilling life that moves you constantly in a higher and higher state is a more sensible way to live I think.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Salvijus

[Leo Gura]

56 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

If psychedelics could cut dacades of practice short then spiritual traditions would've done that looong time ago.

A) Every native culture in the world has used psychedelics for 20,000+ years. Your facts are simply wrong.

B) Modern research chemicals are less than 50 years old.

5-MeO-DMT and freebase N,N-DMT did not exist until our lifetime. Don't overlook this minor point.

The new chemical I will be revealing has not been spoken about by any public figure ever.

Isn't it funny how eager people are to use "science" to justify and ground their worldviews, yet when someone actually brings them new science, they find every excuse against it.

5000 years ago, if I showed you guys a wheel, you would run me out of town on the grounds that, "If this thing worked, our traditions would have done it a loooong time ago."

[Michal__]

Why would it have anymore unseen consequences than for example drinking water? There's literally no logical reason.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Michal__

[The Mystical Man]

7 minutes ago, Michal__ said:

Why would it have anymore unseen consequences than for example drinking water? There's literally no logical reason.

It is necessary to drink water, if you want to survive. But psychedelics are mysterious and powerful substances. I don't know how wise it is to use psychedelics. Sometimes I get the feeling that they're merely simulating a spiritual path. Sometimes I think that the quote by Watts is wise. Carlin said something similar. And sometimes I think that it's just an egoic reaction, and that it'd be foolish to stop using psychedelics after a while. I'm still conflicted about this. 

[Breakingthewall]

Why meditate and try to transcend your ego and realize the truth, if God has given you such an attached ego?, it would be that he would want you to be an ego and suffer. transcending the ego is cheating, and in the next life you will be a guy with a heavy ego. it's the same with psychedelics as without them

[Michal__]

10 hours ago, The Mystical Man said:

It is necessary to drink water, if you want to survive. But psychedelics are mysterious and powerful substances. I don't know how wise it is to use psychedelics. Sometimes I get the feeling that they're merely simulating a spiritual path. Sometimes I think that the quote by Watts is wise. Carlin said something similar. And sometimes I think that it's just an egoic reaction, and that it'd be foolish to stop using psychedelics after a while. I'm still conflicted about this. 

Yeah, comparing it with water might've not been right.

But what do you think makes it less real than meditation? Meditation just mechanically changes your consciousness, why would it be more real than changing it with the help of some substance?

[The Mystical Man]

1 hour ago, Michal__ said:

But what do you think makes it less real than meditation? Meditation just mechanically changes your consciousness, why would it be more real than changing it with the help of some substance?

Are you familiar with Power versus Force? Sometimes I get the feeling that meditation is power. And psychedelics are force. When you experience a truth while meditating, it's likely that you experienced it because you were ready for it. You didn't forcefully push the clouds away to experience the sun. That may not be a wise thing to do, for force comes with counterforce. 

[Eternity]

Great book, Power vs Force.  I like David Hawkins a lot.  To me it seems like using psychedelics to reach enlightenment is like impatiently forcing a flower bud open to see what the blossom will look like fully developed.  But instead the bud winds up being blighted and misshapen and discolored, nothing like the way it would have appeared had it been left alone to develop naturally.  Force is of the ego, and Power is of universal Love.

[Salvijus]

Yes you're right. Psychedelics have been used for spiritual work. But I don't think they were able to shortcut the journey much. They still had to go through gradual awakening and embodiment like everyone else using meditation and whatnot.

If used right psychedelics can assist the process of awakening but there's a difference between how a shaman is using the substance and a random dmt hippy. One may benefit and the other may ruin his life. Or a drunkard-sex addict and a occult tantric yogi. Both do the same things but the result is very different.

I just think the way you approach spirituality won't lead to a good future and good results. At least I can't see any evidence of it yet. I'm still rooting for you to blossom someday with this method of yours. Maybe then I will change my mind about it.

Regards ? @Leo Gura

Edited May 17, 2021 by Salvijus

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Both do the same things but the result is very different.

That can be said for any tool or technique. No technique is fool proof.

You have no idea where I would be without psychedelics. You take all the growth I got from psychedelics and just ignore it as if it didn't happen.

[How to be wise]

On 16/05/2021 at 11:33 AM, Leo Gura said:

The new chemical I will be revealing has not been spoken about by any public figure ever.

Can you please tell us the psychedelic you used in the blog video ‘Ego-collapse awakening’? We’ve been waiting for 2 years. 

[The Mystical Man]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You take all the growth I got from psychedelics and just ignore it as if it didn't happen.

Psychedelics obviously changed you. They changed me too. I'm just not sure if this is the right path for me, but if you feel that this is your authentic path, good for you.