Frank Yang's video response to Leo's video - about stage Turquoise

[Salvijus]

I think god realization happens when you push your awareness upwards high enough through self-inquiry. That's what psychedelics do. They unleash lots of energy from the body reservoirs temporarely and that blows their awareness upwards because energy and awareness go together. Like a lightbulp, more voltage you put in brighter it shines. Psychedelics are like overcloking your system 100x temporarely. This doesn't mean you dissolved your ego. You only created huge distance between ego and awareness. That gives you a god realization.

What vippasana does is a bit different. They are not focused on creating the distance between ego and awareness. They are interested in dissolving ego. That's why they focus on the body because the location of the ego is in throughout the entire body-system. To fully obliterate the ego, every particle in the body has to become pure energy, no solidity can be left.

Their logic is that the less ego you have the higher your vibration and awareness will naturally be because ego is what pulls the awareness down into a shape. So at a certain point when you reach full no-ego state it should be the peak of awareness a human being is capable of because there's nothing pulling him down except the physical body that has its own tax on consciousness. 

Vippasana and ego dissolution is a longer path with interesting cessation stages. Distancing yourself from ego is a another way and can be done in many ways like psychedelics or self inquiry for example but it doesn't dissolve the ego so much so you still have to go through the process of dissolution anyways to become free from suffering and end the reincarnation cycles.

To reach a permenant state of awareness or a primordial sense of being one has to push his energies beyond a certain point of intensity and that's it. That comes with the evolution of soul/energy body. Either you do it with self-inquiry or vipassana, both ways you are bound to reach a point where when you sit your entire body vibrates with energy, then you reach an effortless acid state of permenant present moment awareness. 

Psychedelics give you a glimpse of this intense energy but it has a cost of draining the soul/energy body. Psychedelics can be used occasionally to open up certain possibilities and channels in human consciousness but overusing them will result in backwards growth. Ideally you want to cultivate energy into a higher and higher states with spiritual practices not drain it by recklessly abusing substances.

Even if you do self-inquiry or vipassana in about 1-2years of daily practice a person would start feeling subtle energy vibrating in the body usually in the belly. This energy then intensifies and spreads across the body with practice. Depends on how intense your vibration is, that intense your awareness and evolution is.

Interesting topic. I don't know how much truth there is in what I wrote. But these are nice thoughts for pondering I think 

Nice to see a legend here ? @Being Frank Yang

Edited May 20, 2021 by Salvijus

[Being Frank Yang]

3 hours ago, fopylo said:

@Being Frank Yang I don't know, then why try to show your amazing physique? 

There was a thread not to long ago about building a good physique, and Leo for example said that he rather keep looking lean because it's more healthy, and building a nice physique serves no purpose really. Only for ego. How can you build your physique without it being ego gratification, or is it the only way? Just curious to know more details on your take on it

You can do whatever the ffffaarrkk you wanna do after Realization just don't b an asshoel 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Being Frank Yang

[Being Frank Yang]

2 hours ago, fopylo said:

@Being Frank Yang I don't know, then why

14 minutes ago, knakoo said:

@Being Frank Yang

Hi Frank, thank you for your contribution to the forum. 

I am curious about something : Sadhguru talks about being in a state of ecstasy all the time. Is it the same for you ? If not then do you have some idea why ?

Also I remember from one of your video post enlightenment when you said you were a bit scared of doing a new vipassana retreat (paraphrasing). I had the impression that full no self realisation meant the end of fear. That is not the case ?

Also do you still experience thoughts that simply pop up in your mind or is it total silence unless you are consciously thinking about something.

Finally if you ever take 5 meo dmt ago please come on this forum to share your experience !

 

My pleasure! I don't think I contribute anything tbh I never claim to be teaching anything I just like sharing for the sake of it. 
 

the only concern with going to that Vipassana retreat was because I was still going through unfoldment after the Big Bang breakthrough, and during that time I would shift into psychedelic-like states or having crazy out of body experiences before I fall asleep, and I read that during retreats one can easily enter realms and either temporarily or permanently "stuck" with entities lol. And I'm just not too into magical realms lol. There was no fear of self annihilation. 

I do enjoy every moment to the fullest. You pretty much go back to being a child playing in a sand box while doing every day tasks.  It's kind of like being on acid 24 7 but in a way it's even deeper because it isn't exactly a mind blowing experience per se, since both the mind and the experiencer are transcend hehehhe. Remind you that all experiences or mood shifts that come with awakening are mostly just the by product of Realization, not everyone who's awakened experience cosmic bliss 24 7 lol don't let that fool you.  Equanimity is transcends both bliss and none-bliszzzz

sure there can be thoughts, they're just in equal footing with all other sensations arising in the field like birds chirping or winds blowing. Way way less self voice in the head. But even this isn't an indicator of awakening. Some people have more thoughts after no self, you're simply dis-identified from them is all. 
 

[Being Frank Yang]

27 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I think god realization happens when you push your awareness upwards high enough through self-inquiry. That's what psychedelics do. They unleash lots of energy from the body reservoirs temporarely and that blows their awareness upwards because energy and awareness go together. Like a lightbulp, more voltage you put in brighter it shines. Psychedelics are like overcloking your system 100x temporarely. This doesn't mean you dissolved your ego. You only created huge distance between ego and awareness. That gives you a god realization.

What vippasana does is a bit different. They are not focused on creating the distance between ego and awareness. They are interested in dissolving ego. That's why they focus on the body because the location of the ego is in throughout the entire body-system. To fully obliterate the ego, every particle in the body has to become pure energy, no solidity can be left.

Their logic is that the less ego you have the higher your vibration and awareness will naturally be because ego is what pulls the awareness down into a shape. So at a certain point when you reach full no-ego state it should be the peak of awareness a human being is capable of because there's nothing pulling him down except the physical body that has its own tax on consciousness. 

Vippasana and ego dissolution is a longer path with interesting cessation stages. Distancing yourself from ego is a different way and can be done in many ways like psychedelics one example but it doesn't dissolve the ego so much so you still have to go through the process of dissolution anyways to become free from suffering and end the reincarnation cycles.

To reach a permenant state of awareness or sense of being one has to push his energies beyond a certain point of intensity and that's it. That comes with the evolution of soul/energy body. Either you do it with self-inquiry or vipassana, both ways you are bound to reach a point where when you sit your entire body vibrates with energy, then you reach an effortless acid state of permenant present moment awareness. 

Psychedelics give you a glimpse of this intense energy but it has a cost of draining the soul/energy body. Psychedelics can be used occasionally to open up certain possibilities and channels in human consciousness but overusing them will result in backwards growth. Ideally you want to cultivate energy into a higher and higher states with spiritual practices not drain it by recklessly abusing substances.

Even if you do self-inquiry or vipassana in about 1-2years of daily practice a person would start feeling subtle energy vibrating in the body usually in the belly. This energy then intensifies and spreads across the body with practice. Depends on how intense your vibration is, that intense your awareness and evolution is.

Interesting topic. I don't know how true is what I wrote. But these are nice thoughts for pondering I think 

Nice to see a legend here ? @Being Frank Yang

Thanks for sharing and summarizing some of the stuff discussed ! Like I've been saying most of the energetic stuff is the by product of Realization and dissolution of conditionings. Even after you reach LOC 1000 full unity consciousness permanently there can still be shadow work and integration.  But it's been a year since my shift and most of the energetic stuff came and went.  When all your chakras open up you actually don't feel them anymore. If you're still under going Kundalini/Dark night experiences, it probably means you're still going through dissolution. I remember after the Big Bang for a week or so I was slipping into DMT like States spontaneously, and I thought I was "making progress" but it was simply because the conditions were getting released at an extremely high level after No Self Realization.  So I would venture to say the "highest degree of awareness" is one with no energy within the body whatsoever, but you do "feel" the energy of the Universe (Will), which is totally outside of the mind body organism.  

Edited May 20, 2021 by Being Frank Yang

[Zeldor]

@Leo Gura I have some questions I was hoping you would answer. Firstly, isn’t saying that a temporary awakening is just as valuable as a permanent awakening similar to someone saying that no-awakening and awakening are similarly valuable from a non-dual perspective? While both those statements might be true, most people want to be awakened permanently. Secondly, you said in your latest video that God gets bored. Why would God get bored? Couldn’t he just wish the boredom away? Why would he even care about the boredom if he is all-loving? Why would he limit himself to only being entertained when he has a finite form? Isn’t it a limitation that he needs to have a finite form to be entertained? Also, how do you deal with Descartes’ demon? Thanks for any answers in advance.

[Inliytened1]

On 5/19/2021 at 7:47 PM, Being Frank Yang said:

@BipolarGrowthYou can't really go closer or further with No-Self because this Realization doesn't have stages, it's not even an experience in and of itself.  And true Realization of no self IS God Realization and there is no opposite to this.   Again when there is no more center you ARE God because there is nothing else and every moment is Reality creating Itself.  

Yes our awakenings sound similar and the key here and maybe I didn't point this out earlier but there is a shift in identity.  As it is realized there is no self there is a shift in consciousness to identifying with Consciousness itself.  You become aware that you are awareness itself.  Which is God.  Now the realization that as Consciousness I was completely Infinite came later.  But in this awakening there was Divinity/Bliss it was Pure Consciousness.    So for me Infinity was a different awakening as was Nothingness.  The body can't contain Infinity so that awakening was something else.   Abiding in non-dual awareness later to me is something that continues to deepen over time but yes there is the ability to shift Consciousness now to a meta level although I do not always abide in this 24/7.   But this isn't the same as abiding in an Infinite state of Consciousness have to agree with Leo there.  It does not take away from someone being awake.  It could be here we are also just getting caught up in language.  But as I am typing this to you I am imagining you are a real being or ie imagining you into existence as imagination is reality  - and therefore my Consciousness is shifted into dual gear.   About that- the final awakening for me here was what i call Oneness (the collapse of self/other) - it came about a month after all the rest.  This too was a mystical expanded state of consciousness in which I became directly conscious that I was completely alone as God and all of this was being held within my Consciousness not out there somewhere but within my Mind as God.   All beings were me.  All creatures were me, etc.  This was probably the single most ultimate mindfuck  and  the most difficult to accept.   But you cannot run from it.  You cannot hide from it.   All other are no different than the the thought of a unicorn you may have.  And it is laid bare before your eyes because your mind has expanded so much.  This...this one especially is an extremely profound awakening you can have.  

[Being Frank Yang]

1 hour ago, Adamq8 said:

 

Let me tell you that GOD realization is the most intense experience ever,  if we can call it as such.

Let me tell you that solipsism became true in that experience. 

When your girlfriend who is not interested in spirituality wakes up the at the same moment you do and recognizes that you are GOD things tend to get a little bit freaky.

I woke up to that my parents did not exist and I freaked out and then my girlfriend became me, and she said she had been waiting for me to wake up and it is just me here.

I ask what how the fuck do you know this and why is it like this?

The answer : It has always been like this, all there is , is to create.

And then my living room almost got sucked into the black hole, she moved exactly when I moved and did the same movements, she was a mirror. 

Then I realized that it is only me here.

Do you understand?

Imagine you have a girlfriend who is not interested in spirituality or GOD only to become you and tell you that yes you are GOD and "shes" been waiting for you to wake up and there is no one but you in existence, and I moved her body when I moved mine.

Ive told this story before, this was just a quick summary. 

 

 

Nice! This can be my direct experience 24 7, but I could easily switch lens to other modes of perception.  Or operate a few lenses simultaneously. God Realization goes beyond solipsism. Pure solipsism isn't so different from pure egotism. All extremes usually lead to imbalance ways of living.  I always stress the importance of reflexivity of being.  Becoming truly uni-local. But if you find X or Y lenses most optimum for you, then great ???

[Salvijus]

7 minutes ago, Being Frank Yang said:

Thanks for sharing and summarizing some of the stuff discussed ! Like I've been saying most of the energetic stuff is the by product of Realization and dissolution of conditionings. Even after you reach LOC 1000 full unity consciousness permanently there can still be shadow work and integration.  But it's been a year since my shift and most of the energetic stuff came and went.  When all your chakras open up you actually don't feel them anymore. If you're still under going Kundalini/Dark night experiences, it probably means you're still going through dissolution. I remember after the Big Bang for a week or so I was slipping into DMT like States spontaneously, and I thought I was "making progress" but it was simply because the conditions were getting released at an extremely high level after No Self Realization.  So I would venture to say the "highest degree of awareness" is one with no energy within the body whatsoever, but you do "feel" the energy of the Universe (Will), which is totally outside of the mind body organism.  

Interesting. I can relate a little. 

So how did you get this shift into permenant primordial awareness. With psychedelics? 

[Being Frank Yang]

4 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Interesting. I can relate a little. 

So how did you get this shift into permenant primordial awareness. With psychedelics? 

Vipasanna and self inquiry mostly. I hadn't tried psychedelics for several years before the shift but my experiences with psychedelics in my 20s also contributed to the overall arch of the Path. I've always say anything you can access through psychedelics you can access naturally, but again that's just my own personal experience!

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Zeldor said:

@Leo Gura I have some questions I was hoping you would answer. Firstly, isn’t saying that a temporary awakening is just as valuable as a permanent awakening similar to someone saying that no-awakening and awakening are similarly valuable from a non-dual perspective?

I didn't say "valuable" I said true.

Value is a relative human matter. My concern is truth.

Of course I never discount the value of permanent awakening -- whatever that even means. I just dispute people who say that temporary awakening is false, unreal, delusional, not valuable, or not part of the awakening process.

Quote

While both those statements might be true, most people want to be awakened permanently.

And I got no problem with that. Just stop demonizing and discounting the validity and importance of psychedelics and temporary awakenings.

Quote

Secondly, you said in your latest video that God gets bored. Why would God get bored? Couldn’t he just wish the boredom away? Why would he even care about the boredom if he is all-loving? Why would he limit himself to only being entertained when he has a finite form?

I was speaking figuratively from a human's POV. God dreams because that's what God is, an infinite dreamer. God has nothing better to do but to play these games.

You guys keep missing something very important about life: life is play! It's a game! It's meant to be playful. Yet you take it so seriously. It's like the idea that God could be playful does not occur to you.

Quote

Isn’t it a limitation that he needs to have a finite form to be entertained?

God doesn't need anything. God is just playful and creative. God is not acting out of lack, it's acting out of infinite creative abundance.

Quote

Also, how do you deal with Descartes’ demon? Thanks for any answers in advance.

Descartes demon is imaginary, so there is nothing to deal with. God is infinite, leaving zero room for demons.

[Being Frank Yang]

14 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes our awakenings sound similar and the key here and maybe I didn't point this out earlier but there is a shift in identity.  As it is realized there is no self there is a shift in consciousness to identifying with Consciousness itself.  You become aware that you are awareness itself.  Which is God.  Now the realization that as Consciousness I was completely Infinite came later.  But in this awakening there was Divinity/Bliss it was Pure Consciousness.    So for me Infinity was a different awakening as was Nothingness.  The body can't contain Infinity so that awakening was something else.   Abiding in non-dual awareness later to me is something that continues to deepen over time but yes there is the ability to shift Consciousness now to a meta level although I do not always abide in this 24/7.   But this isn't the same as abiding in an Infinite state of Consciousness have to agree with Leo there.  It does not take away from someone being awake.  It could be here we are also just getting caught up in language.  But as I am typing this to you I am imagining you are a real being and therefore my Consciousness is shifted into dual gear.   About that- the final awakening for me here was what i call Oneness - it came about a month after all the rest.  This too was a mystical expanded state of consciousness in which I became directly conscious that I was completely alone as God and all of this was being held within my Consciousness not out there somewhere but within my Mind as God.   All beings were me.  All creatures were me, etc.  This was probably the hardest awakening for me to accept.   This is a real awakening you can have.  

Sounds very  similar.  Nothingness and Infinity are 2 sides of the same coin. I call them Absolute Infinity vs Absolute Nothingness, for some they unfold simultaneously for others one after another, some have a fuller Realization of one over another.  In my experience the fullest and more balanced awakening is the complete merging of the 2.  Between Love and Death.  You feel totally dead and annihilated (permanent cessation) yet Infinite with no location whatsoever. 

[Salvijus]

@Being Frank Yang  nice ? 

[Being Frank Yang]

22 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes our awakenings sound similar and the key here and maybe I didn't point this out earlier but there is a shift in identity.  As it is realized there is no self there is a shift in consciousness to identifying with Consciousness itself.  You become aware that you are awareness itself.  Which is God.  Now the realization that as Consciousness I was completely Infinite came later.  But in this awakening there was Divinity/Bliss it was Pure Consciousness.    So for me Infinity was a different awakening as was Nothingness.  The body can't contain Infinity so that awakening was something else.   Abiding in non-dual awareness later to me is something that continues to deepen over time but yes there is the ability to shift Consciousness now to a meta level although I do not always abide in this 24/7.   But this isn't the same as abiding in an Infinite state of Consciousness have to agree with Leo there.  It does not take away from someone being awake.  It could be here we are also just getting caught up in language.  But as I am typing this to you I am imagining you are a real being and therefore my Consciousness is shifted into dual gear.   About that- the final awakening for me here was what i call Oneness - it came about a month after all the rest.  This too was a mystical expanded state of consciousness in which I became directly conscious that I was completely alone as God and all of this was being held within my Consciousness not out there somewhere but within my Mind as God.   All beings were me.  All creatures were me, etc.  This was probably the hardest awakening for me to accept.   This is a real awakening you can have.  

Also about the identity part I think that it's worth a mention that the merging of Infinity x Nothingness takes a leap into the dis-identification of even Infinite Consciousness. You got through a phase where YOu are Infinity, then you do Self Inquiry from the Godmind and dis-embed even that...then you simply disappear into Infinity. There is a very subtle difference there that I  think a lot of people miss. 

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Being Frank Yang said:

Sounds very  similar.  Nothingness and Infinity are 2 sides of the same coin. I call them Absolute Infinity vs Absolute Nothingness, for some they unfold simultaneously for others one after another, some have a fuller Realization of one over another.  In my experience the fullest and more balanced awakening is the complete merging of the 2.  Between Love and Death.  You feel totally dead and annihilated (permanent cessation) yet Infinite with no location whatsoever. 

yep its all one ultimately

were all of your awakening(s) without psychedelics?

[Zeldor]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I didn't say "valuable" I said true.

Value is a relative human matter. My concern is truth.

Of course I never discount the value of permanent awakening -- whatever that even means. I just dispute people who say that temporary awakening is false, unreal, delusional, not valuable, or not part of the awakening process.

And I got no problem with that. Just stop demonizing and discounting the validity and importance of psychedelics and temporary awakenings.

@Leo Gura Fair enough, but I never demonized psychedelics nor temporary awakenings, I see the value in both from my pov. It seems like you are just assuming those things based off of what other people have said to you, and while that assumption may be true in most cases, it is wrong in this one.

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I was speaking figuratively from a human's POV. God dreams because that's what God is, an infinite dreamer. God has nothing better to do but to play these games.

Isn't saying God has nothing better to do but to play these games just putting another limitation on him? Can't I also say God has nothing better to do than to not play games, because from God's perspective: "better" is just a human construct?

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys keep missing something very important about life: life is play! It's a game! It's meant to be playful. Yet you take it so seriously. It's like the idea that God could be playful does not occur to you.

God doesn't need anything. God is just playful and creative. God is not acting out of lack, it's acting out of infinite creative abundance.

Again, why are you assuming I can't be playeujskdnsouqwe? I am speaking formally because that is how I speak when I'm talking to somebody I view as an "authority figure".

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Descartes demon is imaginary, so there is nothing to deal with. God is infinite, leaving zero room for demons.

How do you know Descartes demon is imaginary? Isn't your idea that God uses his power to delude himself basically saying that God is God's own Descartes' demon?

Edited May 20, 2021 by Zeldor

[knakoo]

@Being Frank Yang Thank you for the answers

Do you know if it's possible for someone to lose their self/center as you describe while sober and then get it back ?

I know some people describe losing any sense of self/center on psychedelics but then they go back to a center after the trip. So that is not "enlightenment" ? Why not ? 

Is it correct to say that what you describe as enlightenment is a permanent, "quantum" shift and someone that did not go through this permanent shift has really no idea what no self or truth really is ?

[knakoo]

8 minutes ago, Being Frank Yang said:

Also about the identity part I think that it's worth a mention that the merging of Infinity x Nothingness takes a leap into the dis-identification of even Infinite Consciousness. You got through a phase where YOu are Infinity, then you do Self Inquiry from the Godmind and dis-embed even that...then you simply disappear into Infinity. There is a very subtle difference there that I  think a lot of people miss. 

So "I am God" is delusion from your perspective ?

[Spiral Wizard]

5 minutes ago, knakoo said:

So "I am God" is delusion from your perspective ?

Yesn‘t 

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, knakoo said:

So "I am God" is delusion from your perspective ?

`the I does not mean the ego I in this statement, not a human.  Keep that in mind.   Also it is just a pointer.  Language can only point to the Absolute.    As the Absolute there is no one to say they are God to someone else.  they just ARE.  or more accurately God just IS.

 

[Being Frank Yang]

24 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Being Frank Yang  nice ? 

forgot to mention Dozgchen /Awareness of awareness type practice was also a major contributor!