Frank Yang's video response to Leo's video - about stage Turquoise

[BipolarGrowth]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

No it's the same thing! When you become conscious of No Self you become conscious of Self.  

If it were the exact same, this thread wouldn’t exist. 
 

Frank is a blind person enamored with the elephant’s trunk while Leo is a blind person enamored with the elephant’s tail. Yeah, it’s all the elephant, but this is an Infinite elephant we’re talking about ?

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, kinesin said:

If Leo is genuinely enlightened and Frank isn't, then I don't want to be enlightened.  .

This is a projection in your mind of how an enlightened being should be.  Nothing more.

[kinesin]

@Inliytened1  Based on what?  Your own belief that an enlightened person is someone who has overcome the projections? That only makes sense from the Leo 'everything is just a dream' perspective.  I don't share that view, I believe that phenomena are simultaneously illusory and completely real.  I believe that enlightened people are ultimately very caring, balanced, serene individuals - Leo doesn't strike me as that at all.

[Inliytened1]

11 minutes ago, kinesin said:

@Inliytened1 l I believe that enlightened people are ultimately very caring, balanced, serene individuals - Leo doesn't strike me as that at all.

Notice your statement.  I believe.  It's relative.   I am merely pointing out relativity, which permeates through all of reality.

[dharm4]

This discussion reminds me of the Parable "Blind men and the elephant"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

[kinesin]

@Inliytened1  Like I said, I believe that phenomena are simultaneously illusory and completely real.  A flower is a nonlocal part of a unified field of universal energy... but it's also a flower.  My belief about the nature of enlightenment is a dream, I know that, but I also treat the subjective human experience as real and have no desire anymore to reduce all of my perceptions and actions to nothingness.

[andyjohnsonman]

17 minutes ago, dharm4 said:

This discussion reminds me of the Parable "Blind men and the elephant"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

yep

[BipolarGrowth]

21 minutes ago, dharm4 said:

This discussion reminds me of the Parable "Blind men and the elephant"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

I brought it up just a few posts before this lol. It’s a great example of this parable in action. 

[Inliytened1]

51 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

If it were the exact same, this thread wouldn’t exist. 
 

Frank is a blind person enamored with the elephant’s trunk while Leo is a blind person enamored with the elephant’s tail. Yeah, it’s all the elephant, but this is an Infinite elephant we’re talking about ?

No I think Frank is over complicating things frankly  (no pun intended) .

If you mix in so much concept and stages you are just gonna make awakening more complex. 

[CBDinfused]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No it isn't.

You are saying misleading things and I don't sense that you know what God is.

I said the things I said in my recent video precisely because no-self and enlightenment is not enough to realize God. I know many enlightened people, and few of them have realized God.

You can argue with this all you want, but I have made my position clear and that is what I teach. If you don't like it, feel free to teach whatever you want to your people.

Those few who some day realize what I have realized will understand why I stress what I stress and not something else. Realize what God is. The rest is childsplay.

That is an interesting claim by Frank that it is just as common to realise No-self as it is to realise god.

I interpret this as the difference between Buddha and Jesus. Buddha and Buddhism is basically "go live on a mountain in solidarity and realise that you are nothing and there is no self" where Jesus is "realise all is god and infinite love and the kingdom of God is everywhere". I am referring to the OG Jesus a.k.a. Gospel of Thomas Jesus. 

[VeganAwake]

7 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Why put so much importance on it then? 

No one puts importance on it. There isn't a YOU.

It's an illusion within the body that feels separate and is trying to find a solution to make itself feel whole and complete. 

It often tries with material possessions or spiritual materialism. ❤

[Display_Name]

On 5/18/2021 at 4:35 AM, SpiritualAwakening said:

The first time I'm experiencing @Leo Gura not telling someone he/she isn't getting it or he/she needs to have more awakenings in order to uncover a full understanding. I'm quite astonished.

Cause frank is the real deal, the wokest sickkunt I know

Edited May 19, 2021 by Display_Name

[Display_Name]

21 hours ago, Being Frank Yang said:

One thing i agree with Leo is that there aren't a lot of teachers out there who's Realized the "Loop", as in they'll talk about emptiness and no self but they are missing the "Form"/"Infinity" aspect of it.  After my Awakening it was a surprise to me how very few people ever talk about Strange Loops, or what I call the direct moment to moment experience of Universe Fucking/Eating Itself through and through, Cosmic Snake Biting It's Own Tail, but few seem to "close the circuit" 

Maybe it was your couple 5-MeO trips that gave you access to the infinite loop aspect of it, you having done 5-MeO is the one variable that sets you apart from guys like Shinzen, Ingram etc who did shit tons of vipassana but dont talk about loops

 

5-meo + vipassana hybrid path is da way my brahs

Edited May 19, 2021 by Display_Name

[RMQualtrough]

7 minutes ago, Display_Name said:

Maybe it was your couple 5-MeO trips that gave you access to the infinite loop aspect of it, you having done 5-MeO is the one variable that sets you apart from guys like Shinzen, Ingram etc who did shit tons of vipassana but dont talk about loops

 

5-meo + vipassana hybrid path is da way my brahs

The toad is my prophet and I seek the words of its messengers. I legit think it contains the answers to reality... Bufo is God's only prophet. If only it could speak.

[Display_Name]

5 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

No it's the same thing! When you become conscious of No self you become conscious of Self.   There is an integration process and a deepening of this understanding afterwards but it is what it is.

Here's the thing:

realising there's no self =/= the actual permanent dropping away of the center

anyone can realise the falsehood of self, even the most basic "I AM WITNESS" stage realises the falsehood of small I, but for the center to completely drop away is different and it's extremely rare. Most "enlightened people" are exactly that, enlightened people. There's still a center there that got enlightened. For it to drop away completely is atleast as if not much rarer than taking acid or DMT and realizing infinity, that's what Frank is saying. Or maybe it isn't, this is just storytime.

Leo thinks the "enlightened people" he knows have realized noself. But chances are their center has not dropped all the way. 

It's the same utter uniform, loopy centerless parity you experience on 5-MeO, it's not your average Eckhart Tolle.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Display_Name

[Inliytened1]

20 hours ago, Display_Name said:

Here's the thing:

realising there's no self =/= the actual permanent dropping away of the center

anyone can realise the falsehood of self, even the most basic "I AM WITNESS" stage realises the falsehood of small I, but for the center to completely drop away is different and it's extremely rare. Most "enlightened people" are exactly that, enlightened people. There's still a center there that got enlightened. For it to drop away completely is atleast as if not much rarer than taking acid or DMT and realizing infinity, that's what Frank is saying.

Leo thinks the "enlightened people" he knows have realized noself. But chances are their center has not dropped all the way. 

It's the same utter uniform, loopy centerless parity you experience on 5-MeO, it's not your average Eckhart Tolle.

If it's an actual no self awakening you will be God.   Period.  Because that is what remains.  You were always God but now you are in an elevated state of Consciousness.  Now the question is whether you have the realization that that is what you are.  For me both realizations happened with the same awakening.  The realization that the self was an illusion was a shifting to identifying with Consciousness itself.  But this is probably not common.    it could be the self dissolves with the realization that it was an illusion, they experience God/Pure Consciousness, but aren't conscious yet that they are God.  That's fine.  But if you are having these types of awakenings sober typically as was with me you will have a series of them within a short time span - like a couple of weeks or months period where you will have more realizations.

[RMQualtrough]

@Display_Name Why would a person want that beyond a brief experience or realization? Does that mean they are in the ego death type state all the time?

[Mu_]

21 hours ago, Being Frank Yang said:

I will also ad d another difference, how minor/major it is depend on the individual. Leo places "God Realization" at the end of the path, I place No Self at the end and anything God related as simply an experience/by product of an authentic Realization of No Self (which again despite what some people believe this is actually extremely rare. Hence I make the distinction between temporarily transcending the self via meditation and psychedelics vs a permanent Realization of dropping away of self) and to me most people who think they're GOd Realized are simply having an experience from the separated state. Here is my very simple stages of Awakening that might help put things into perspective.

1.  I Am/Identification of ego (everything below Turquoise) Contracted sense of self that stuck inside the head and behind the eyes.

2. I Am Awareness/Consciousness, which is the identification to the Witnessing of 1 (Stream Entry)

3. I Am God/Infinity/Universal Mind And Love. Identification of God. I Am Everything.

4. I Am Nothingness/Emptiness. Total loss of identity. An extremely nebulous sense of self

5. Enlightenment/ True No Self.

5, An authentic Enlightenment is the UN-ALTERED STATE of Consciousness aka Natural State, which dis-identifies, includes but transcends all the previous stages.   This state is what Osho calls "Beyond Enlightenment", completely ordinary, yet some many sense even deeper than the Universal Mind stage. 

One thing i agree with Leo is that there aren't a lot of teachers out there who's Realized the "Loop", as in they'll talk about emptiness and no self but they are missing the "Form"/"Infinity" aspect of it.  After my Awakening it was a surprise to me how very few people ever talk about Strange Loops, or what I call the direct moment to moment experience of Universe Fucking/Eating Itself through and through, Cosmic Snake Biting It's Own Tail, but few seem to "close the circuit" 

 

My very partial understanding of hearing both of your guys videos and the difference, while also reflecting off my own awakening is that you two seem to have of awakened, but in reflection and communication of those events in order to describe to a supposed outside world, different words used to describe the story are different.  In this difference you see each-other at different places since what you call No-Self, Leo calls God in many ways, and Leo calls No-self something different in many ways, but these stories are in a imaginary plane with imaginary systems and stages, each meaning its own thing to each of you through your own past experiences.  All the while, both of you are the expression of the same "..." doing their best to cover "..."

[bliss54]

This is pretty radical stuff

[Mu_]

20 hours ago, Scholar said:

Here is the path:

You sit down, you get enlightened. You get enlightened again. You get so enlightened that you return to being normal.

You get so enlightened that you realize that everyone around you has always been enlightened and has already achieved the full path. You realize there is nobody who is unaware of anything. They are all conscious of the ultimate nature of existence, they are all aware of that which you have spent years to become aware of. They have deconstructed it all. Infact, they have deconstructed it all so much, that the only last thing you have to achieve their final level of enlightenment, is to forget completely about enlightenment, truth and all the nonsense you have gathered.

 

And then you suffer, you suffer as you always have. That is your sacrifice and your ultimate Truth. You cry about how you want to stop suffering, and seek, utterly aware, but blind to the truth. Your blindness is your ultimate awareness. And one day, you decide you want to seek truth and love. And you sit down so you get enlightened.

Hmm seems like you just did the same thing you were talking about of Leo and Frank.