The point that Leo made about pets.

[Preety_India]

Not long ago, we had a thread in this section discussing about giving pets an orgasm. And Leo said something like having pets is not exactly a humanitarian thing but akin to slavery. 

Today I watched this video and I kinda felt sad because I realized that there is a grain of truth to what Leo was saying.

This cat in the video is begging to be fed. Now it can only eat when the owner feeds the cat, or else it has to wait. But what If the cat is really really hungry and probably dying out of hunger. It still has no free will to decide what it can eat and when it can eat.

Yet if I wanted to eat something, all I've to do is walk in to the kitchen. Nobody tells me what I should eat or when. I can eat whatever I want and whenever I want. It's a basic freedom I enjoy as a human being. 

 

I kinda felt sorry for the cat though.

So Leo has a point?

 

[Dlavjr]

Definitely a point there but I wouldn't believe it to be inherently harmful, definitely susceptible to being harmful though. I.e. animal abuse.

[Shin]

Well at least most of them don't have to work or be sex slave, so they have it way better than human slaves.

[Roy]

That's pretty liberal and reckless usage of the word slavery. I think he was just using it to be a smart ass and make a blunt point.

There is a historical connotation and severity of the word "slavery" that makes it VERY distinct from things like "ownership", "boss", "caretaker", "guardian".

You wouldn't say a child is a "slave" of his/her parents would you? NO.

Slavery implies you have near total control over a living thing (and it's survival), but you are DELIBERATELY depriving the quality of it's life in order to extract something.

A pet is not a slave. Assuming you are meeting it's basic needs and not maliciously abusing it or making it's life a living hell.

So yea Leo is just wrong here.

[NK13]

I agree. The capacity of animals to be more satisfied than we by mere existence is often abused by egotistic and heartless man, and is often exploited to such an extent that he allows them absolutely nothing but bare existence. For example, the bird that is organized to roam through half the world, is confined to a cubic foot of space where it slowly pines to death and cries and the highly intelligent dog, man's truest and most faithful friend, is put on a chain by him. I never see such a dog without feelings of the deepest sympathy for him and of indignation against his master.

[Hulia]

@Preety_India are you kidding? Preety, did you see this cat? :)))) His problem is not that he doesn´t get his meal every time he wants, but exactly the opposie - he gets it whenever he wants it. With the only physical effort of openning the mouth and saying "Meow".

[RendHeaven]

All pet ownership is egoic at the end of the day.

I'm not sure about "slavery" though.

[ivankiss]

It's really simple. If you don't know how to connect with and take care of someone - don't have a 'pet'. Or a kid. Lol

 

[Parththakkar12]

2 hours ago, Roy said:

You wouldn't say a child is a "slave" of his/her parents would you? NO.

Well, maybe ask a child. They may beg to differ. Maybe think back to your childhood. What was it like going to school every single day and having the teacher talk at you?! And 'getting punished' for flunking, getting detentions, etc.

[Preety_India]

@Roy with children they can at least speak.

With pets, they can give us signals yet they cannot really tell us how exactly the they are feeling 

We cannot really know if they are in pain or not 

A child can tell us that they need help. And the exact Nature of the help

A pet can only make helpless movements and gestures but cannot say where they are exactly experiencing pain.

I'm sure the cat in the video was probably dying out of hunger and the owner was taking it too lightly because the cat can't communicate it to him.

 

[Roy]

@Preety_India are you sure about that? Have you ever had a house pet like a dog or cat? You probably notice you can have a profound connection with many animals, just because they don't speak a language doesn't mean you can't decipher very closely what they are feeling.

What about infants? They can't speak at all and mothers eventually intuitively figure out what they need.

My problem here is with the word itself (slavery). It's the most extreme gradient on a scale where other words can be used. It's like calling someone a rapist because they accidently grazed a woman's arm when she didn't want to be touched.

Not only is it inaccurate, but it makes light of all the beings who have actually suffered from slavery. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Roy

[Preety_India]

@Hulia  yes the cat is a chonky. 

But what if the cat eats too much out of desperation of being fed at wrong times.

I've never seen chonky cats in the wild. Or street cats. 

I used to take care of 10 Cats as a child. But they had a huge backyard house. They were allowed to be cats. 

I used to feed them real fish like salmon, just real food that is available in the wild. No fake supermarket balls. 

I used to let them hunt for food if they wanted. They had the freedom to have a full tour of the house as well as roam through all the neighbouring bushes and trees playing, having fun in sunlight and fresh air.

Final result???

Not even a single cat was chonky. All 10 cats fit and healthy, never grumpy.

How is it fair to keep them inside and go to work, feed them a box of boring bullshit supermarket food and having them to beg for it, always restricted within the walls of the house, bored to death , no form of outdoor exercise, either fed poorly the same damn food everyday or being overfed.

We indulge in comfort food when we are unhappy and to cope with boredom .

I think the cat is eating too much to cope with the condition of being trapped in the house like that all day every day with the owner always going to work, pretty much like a bored housewife..

You know when we get fat? ......When we  eat shitty food!!

The cat is eating shitty food..no cat gets fat like that.

 

If the owner was really loving, he would never allowed the cat to get this fat.

It's definitely a coping mechanism to loneliness or some other problem. 

My God that cat is miserable,I can tell. I've great experience in detecting emotions in cats.

The most important thing that cats want is freedom to do what they want.

Not being holed up in a clumsy apartment. 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

@Roy

I had cats for the entire of my childhood till the age of 15. 

I was practically raised by cats.

Yes I understand them intuitively.

But understanding intuitively and direct communication through language, the difference is heaven and hell.

For example my cat couldn't tell me if the neighbourhood kid had hit it. There would be no way for me to know if a certain person was harassing my cat.

I would only know that my cat is acting funny or it is upset but I cannot know the exact cause merely through intuition.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

@ivankiss having a kid is not the same as having a pet. 

We don't chain our kids,do we?

Kids can speak to us in the language we understand. They can narrate an entire story. Pets can't.

Pets remain pets forever, always at the reception of our mercy and at the mercy of our ability to nurture them .

Kids grow up and move on and start their own families and full freedom and autonomy.

Pets can hardly do that. They are tied to us their whole lives.

Many pets are put down by their owners. 

Do we ever put down children??

 

 

[diamondpenguin]

@Preety_India your a real saint to those cats, you know that?

[Preety_India]

@diamondpenguin for me cats are LIFE.

[diamondpenguin]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

@diamondpenguin for me cats are LIFE.

That's really cool, what are your ways to handle stress and ptsd type thoughts? 

[Preety_India]

7 minutes ago, diamondpenguin said:

That's really cool, what are your ways to handle stress and ptsd type thoughts? 

It's very tough. It's like going through many phases before you become completely free from symptoms.

Try listening to calm music, stay away from psychological and emotional triggers, have tough solid boundaries, eating well, cut out anything that is toxic, talk to people who are very empathetic and understanding, keep venting as much as possible, try to stay in a positive space gradually, distract from bothersome thoughts, self love, use humor, make friends, have a consistent spiritual practice like meditation, don't be too attached to life, understand that the nature of life is complicated and we are all fucked at some point by it, acceptance of suffering and acceptance of circumstances,don't try to resist too hard because it creates too much frustration and that perpetuates the cycle of trauma, acceptance helps to break this cycle, empower yourself little by little everyday by encouraging yourself, investing in learning new skill, finding new ways to be happy, and developing core self confidence,not relying on external validation anymore, try to be as emotionally independent as possible,take matters in your own hands, self ownership, take care of yourself and keep healing. It's a lot of work.

 

[Hulia]

@Preety_India No need to persuade me. I am not a fan of animals - neither on the plate no in the flat. Though the cats are fascinating creatures, but I prefer somebody else to take care of hem, me just observing 

[ivankiss]

14 hours ago, Preety_India said:

@ivankiss having a kid is not the same as having a pet. 

We don't chain our kids,do we?

Kids can speak to us in the language we understand. They can narrate an entire story. Pets can't.

Pets remain pets forever, always at the reception of our mercy and at the mercy of our ability to nurture them .

Kids grow up and move on and start their own families and full freedom and autonomy.

Pets can hardly do that. They are tied to us their whole lives.

Many pets are put down by their owners. 

Do we ever put down children??

 

 

I'm not saying it's the same thing lol.

But if one is unable to form a healthy bond; both options are out of the picture.

Mechanically speaking; the process of bonding is the same. No matter who or what you're bonding with and in what style.

Also; you could have a relationship with your pet that's totally unique. You could spend your time teaching it how to survive alone in the wilderness - for example. Turn it into a highly intuitive and intelligent beast that can survive extreme conditions and scenarios. And then when the day comes; you release your 'pet' into the unknown. It might be a stupid example; but you get what I mean. There is no one right way to relate to your pet. It can look like anything. As long as your intentions are pure. Your pet is teaching you things, too. You just have to see it.

The same way; there are children that never grow up and leave their parents house. And that act just like pets. They meow or bark at their caretaker to give them food. Or money.

Also; animals do speak to us, directly. Lol. They just don't use the language people use among each other. Perhaps that's an advantage.

They speak to us on an emotional level. They make suggestions. They hint to what they're trying to convey. It's kinda telepathic lol.