I'm confused about Leo's madness and doubt him a bit

[fopylo]

I didn't exactly know how to title it, but the main thing is that I'm confused sometimes about Leo's behaviors as to personal and spiritual growth and doubt it sometimes. This is not a troll post. I want an explanation from Leo/someone who understands.

So it does occur to me a few times that Leo gives some advice but also acts in opposite to it (can't remember too many examples but I believe he said once something about not watching tv and to eat healthy but in later videos said he enjoyed his ice-cream and plays video games sometimes. Ok this is just small examples ok).

But the thing that did kind of bother me is one of his recent blog posts where he posts something about watching porn and seeing a tattoo that says "God is Love".

So firstly, you give all this advice about how to self improve and to self actualize in order to live the best life, but then you just go bluntly and tell us all that you watch porn? Why do you watch porn? I though you don't need it because you can get happiness from just Being. I believe you know the damage porn does to your brain, no matter how awake or enlightened you perceive yourself to be. It can affect in many bad ways and you are not above the effects of it.

Anyways, it is hard for me to believe you'd just go damage your life quality. I still doesn't really make sense to me, but perhaps you have a higher reason that I'm not even aware of at my level of consciousness currently (?)
I am curious to know your motive behind deciding to search pornhub.com and bluntly posting it on the blog letting us all know.

I'm sorry if it sounds like an attack. My best interest is to learn

[Waves]

In short, Leo is a human. It seems like you're expecting him to be perfect, and I fell into the same trap when I started following his work, and it was my projection because I expected myself to be perfect (maybe it rings something for you). 

Don't idolize him, don't put him on a pedestal, don't see him as a holy figure or whatever. He's just a dude (his avatar at least ) delivering some gold nuggets of wisdom. It is obvious he's really fucking good at doing that, and unique in what he teaches and how he teaches it.

I can see how the embodiment of teachings is important and determines the quality of a teacher, but your job is to focus on what he's pointing to and to experience it yourself, not to look at the finger. You don't have to agree/approve of everything he says or does, drop your expectations and projections towards him and you'll be better off. Also, learn from many other teachers.

[Opo]

22 minutes ago, fopylo said:

I believe you know the damage porn does to your brain, no matter how awake or enlightened you perceive yourself to be. It can affect in many bad ways and you are not above the effects of it.

Wut? 

[BlackMaze]

You can watch porn and eat ice cream and play video games and smoke joints. Isn't this a relief? If you don't let those behaviors control your life it's ok. I think that now i understand why Leo made this blog post or why he says for example that his dick is in your mind right now and so on.. It's specifically for people that get offended so easily or expect him to be perfect. Just listen to the teachings and think for yourself. It has nothing to do with him or you. It's about the thing that is being teached. 

[Eren Eeager]

@fopylo There is nothing wrong with watching porn or eating Ice cream if you do them in a healthy manner. You are expecting Leo to be a saint or something?

Leo is living a balanced life. He is seeking and living a goos life. It is not the things that is the problem, it is the attachment to things. Healthy expression is good. And then comes transcendence. But even after transcending things, you can still do them but from a higher perspective.

[DocWatts]

You'll be much better off if you think of him as just a guy whose job it is to contemplate philosophical ideas, and then to communicate those ideas via his online platform (and happens to be pretty good at it).

If you find yourself putting him on a pedestal, put in some work to find the faults in the ideas and concepts that he puts forth. 

I've often been better served by seeking out outside sources for many of the topics that Leo discusses, and contrasting how the book I'm reading frames a topic vs Leo's take.

For instance I've found the philosopher Thomas Nagel's arguments against materialist reductionism more convincing than Leo's 'Deconstructing the Myth of Science' series, but still found it useful for how someone with a Perspective would make said argument.

Edited May 14, 2021 by DocWatts

[fopylo]

@Waves @DocWatts  Yes I hear you guys that he is just a normal dude and is trying to break the myth in my head that he is some kind of angle. But then still, why would he share advice that he himself doesn't quite embody.

It's like why would you listen to dating coach that didn't have any success with relationships?
Leo (ok, we got it that he is a normal human) is still not embodying his teachings, which just gives him a bad image.

But like seriously, why would you watch porn  for god sake? No one just decides to watch porn  with no selfish motive.

It causes brain and psychological damage, the very thing Leo is preaching to grow and working to grow on himself.

Can you see the problem?

[Opo]

6 minutes ago, fopylo said:

@Waves @DocWatts   But then still, why would he share advice that he himself doesn't quite embody.

Because him embodying it is irrelevant. The advice stands on it's own. 

[something_else]

44 minutes ago, fopylo said:

 

It causes brain and psychological damage, the very thing Leo is preaching to grow and working to grow on himself.

Maybe if you're addicted. You honestly think watching porn once a week or whatever is gonna damage you psychologically? You probably get more psychological damage by obsessing over how bad and evil something is than indulging in it consciously and in moderation.

[CultivateLove]

You're all asking the wrong questions.

Leo, what's the name of the chick with "God is Love" tattoo?

For research purposes, of course.

[RendHeaven]

@CultivateLove

[kinesin]

57 minutes ago, fopylo said:

It's like why would you listen to dating coach that didn't have any success with relationships?

Most of them don't have success with relationships actually, and it's the same principle underlying their behaviour which also explains Leo's.  Dating coaches are very rarely in committed longterm relationships, infact they're serial daters who have perfected a strategy for the dating process yet weren't necessarily able to deal with the actual relationship stage.  If they could, they might be relationship coaches rather than dating coaches.

When people give you the answer 'because Leo is human', what they mean is that the entire reason why Leo has learned all this information and spent so much of his life focusing on it is precisely because he struggles with it.  Are you familiar with Jung's archetype of the 'wounded healer'?  It's a person who has suffered and struggled with something, and in doing so has learned various strategies and methods to deal with it which they then use to help other people through the same issues.  The wounded healer isn't necessarily able to put their lessons into practice within their own life - this is also where the stereotype that 'all psychiatrists are kind of crazy' comes from.

[fopylo]

@Opo Then how can he know the advice is true? The only way he can verify it is through his own experience

 

@something_else

2 hours ago, something_else said:

You probably get more psychological damage by obsessing over how bad and evil something is than indulging in it consciously and in moderation.

Indulging in porn consciously?? If you where conscious you'd have no reason to indulge in porn. What would your motivations be then?

[fopylo]

@kinesin Very informative, thanks. However, if he still struggles then how does he know his method will help him and others? It's one thing to read about it and deliver and another thing to test and experiment and observe the change over the long-term and then to assess. In my experience, personally, some methods just cease to work over time for me.

This still doesn't explain why would he post on his blog letting all of us know he is watching porn. Isn't he trying to fix this problem? Even more importantly, which could shift perspective - does it seem like he considers it a problem (the healer's wound) ? If no then what you said doesn't mean anything

[bejapuskas]

He mentioned multiple times that he is trying to be more transparent, seen more as an imperfect figure, because so many people here were idealizing him. Now he is trying to mix integrity into the whole thing and it seems to be playing out quite nicely  

[fopylo]

And by the way, isn't Leo enlightened or something? Didn't he transcend most of his suffering?
Because why would he put on his blog long videos of depression and relationship? That probably has nothing to do with it, but my idea was that sticking along watching those long videos might imply that you were curious throughout the whole video and needed it

[Arcangelo]

@fopylo I think you are projecting bruh

 

[Shin]

28 minutes ago, fopylo said:

And by the way, isn't Leo enlightened or something? Didn't he transcend most of his suffering?
Because why would he put on his blog long videos of depression and relationship? That probably has nothing to do with it, but my idea was that sticking along watching those long videos might imply that you were curious throughout the whole video and needed it

You can be enlightened and the character you're playing still sucks balls and suffer.
Leo is a human being with things he likes and dislikes, some things he does or doesn't do, he's not a perfect divine pristine pure fantasy.

Even if it was possible to be "perfect", it would still triggers someone, cause everything is relative in life, and people hates different things.
For you it's people watching porn and playing video games, for someone else it would be him listening to electronic music, or having a beard, or being rich, american, white, liking cars, a specific sport, certain shows/movies, way of speaking, his body language, his hobbies ...

There is no end to this, and people you think are perfect pure beings, they just aren't, they have a life with things they like you don't like.

For exemple, some spiritual teachers have no problem being in open relationship or polyamory relationship, and you can bet that 99.99% of people thinks this is evil
Even Jesus, if we had the exact record of his life, 99.99% of people would find something to dislike about him, because they think he should be perfect, but no he's a human being like everybody else  

Edited May 14, 2021 by Shin

[something_else]

26 minutes ago, fopylo said:

If you where conscious you'd have no reason to indulge in porn

Says who. How would you know? I meant conscious in terms of being aware of why exactly you were watching porn in the first place. If it's out of addiction you have no control over it then we agree entirely, where we disagree is that it's impossible to enjoy it in a way that is not destructive to your psyche.

I suppose most people who watch it probably are addicted, and it's definitely something to be careful with. But it seems like you've turned it into something that triggers a pretty aggressive reaction in you which I'd say is something else to be careful of.

[blackchair]

try to be objective if you can be, there is xy teachers on the whole planet and Leo is just one part of it, take good and discard the bad.