Confused about Leo's teachings on death

[Girzo]

4 hours ago, kinesin said:

When a friend tells a joke, you laugh despite the communication being no-thing.  You hug them when you say goodbye, despite the relationship being no-thing.  Why pretend that death is any different

Yeah, when framed like that death is real, but what is this death that is real? It's a social construct. When you talk about mourning others, being sad someone died we are talking about social customs and not the actual death that is supposed to happen to you. Different things.

Personally, I am never and never have been sad for the people close to me who died. I am sad, because I can't spend quality time with them anymore, and I am sad, because the survival will be harder for me or someone close, but I am not sad for the dead, what's the point of that? I neither wonder what have happened to them.

[Leo Gura]

You guys keep imagining a future in which you will die. That is imagination.

Death is way more radical than you think. It simply never occurs from God's POV. And your human POV is a fantasy which doesn't matter AT ALL.

Nothing reincarnates when you are fully conscious. There is other realm. There is nothing else. This is it. Past lives and other realms -- it's all imaginary.

The future and past simply do not have any reality whatsoever. You exist as the Eternal NOW. But the problem is you don't know how to stop imagining. You can't help yourself.

The human mind cannot understamd death logically. Understanding death is a trans-logical thing. You basically become so present in the NOW that you can never die. You literally stop imagining your future death, thereby making it impossible.

[Tetcher]

In a way death is like a trip. If you stop breathing now you will go into the deepest meditative state which is effectively death of your body. The question is whether you will resist that moment in which case it will be painful or not resist in which case the experience will be that of bliss. The question whether you die or not is a question of semantics. Yes the existence is eternal and undying, also yes when you leave human existence you will through an utmost personal and absolute experience, how you go through this is the whole point of spiritual work.

[The0Self]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys keep imagining a future in which you will die. That is imagination.

Death is way more radical than you think. It simply never occurs from God's POV. And your human POV is a fantasy which doesn't matter AT ALL.

Nothing reincarnates when you are fully conscious. There is other realm. There is nothing else. This is it. Past lives and other realms -- it's all imaginary.

The future and past simply do not have any reality whatsoever. You exist as the Eternal NOW. But the problem is you don't know how to stop imagining. You can't help yourself.

The human mind cannot understamd death logically. Understanding death is a trans-logical thing. You basically become so present in the NOW that you can never die. You literally stop imagining your future death, thereby making it impossible.

Exactly! But reincarnation does apparently happen. It's just a psychic reality, or as you say "imaginary." Yes. Precisely.

i.e. death has no reality, whatsoever.

Edited May 14, 2021 by The0Self

[Chris365]

39 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Exactly! But reincarnation does apparently happen. It's just a psychic reality, or as you say "imaginary." Yes. Precisely.

i.e. death has no reality, whatsoever.

Which part of 'you' reincarnates? If it's Universal Consciousness, does it even make sense to say it reincarnates?

[The0Self]

5 minutes ago, Chris365 said:

Which part of 'you' reincarnates? If it's Universal Consciousness, does it even make sense to say it reincarnates?

Ultimately, nothing is happening. This is merely a singularity; liberation, appearing as everything, including "time." Relatively, there are apparent past lives. I am certainly not claiming it makes sense . I've simply become directly conscious of its reality -- though ultimately, there is no reality (and that I cannot explain -- it is beyond experience and logic).

Edited May 14, 2021 by The0Self

[Chris365]

Just now, The0Self said:

Relatively, there are apparent past lives.

Are there apparent past and future unicorns, relatively, and on the same level as past lives?

[The0Self]

5 minutes ago, Chris365 said:

Are there apparent past and future unicorns, relatively, and on the same level as past lives?

That would seem to be a different level of abstraction. Reincarnation is relatively more actual (alterations not accessible by individual imagination) than that.

Of course there are no past lives, ultimately. Reincarnation merely seems to happen. It's a dream (to consider it ultimate reality).

Edited May 14, 2021 by The0Self

[tatsumaru]

8 hours ago, ivankiss said:

'God' is beyond belief. It's beyond any assumption or conclusion.

Nonsense. God is just the illusion of Oneness/Brahman. There's nothing beyond belief about it.

To better understand the difference between the Alaya Consciousness of Buddhism (which is actually beyond consciousness) and the Brahman Consciousness of Advaita (which implies “not two”), the following humorous story was said to be told in the Kevatta (Kevaddha) Sutta, as translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

“Where do the four elements cease without remainder?”

Through meditation the monk reached the Heaven of the Four Great Kings, who did not know the answer. Next he went to the thirty three gods in a higher Desire Realm heaven, but none of these rulers knew either. He then asked King Sakka (Indra), the king of these gods, but Sakka did not know the answer. Up and up he went asking all sorts of gods at each and every higher level. Finally he came to Great Brahma, the Creator, Uncreated, Knower of All.

When the monk finally achieved an audience with Great Brahma, Brahma appeared in all his majesty and glory announcing, “I am Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Ruler, Appointer and Orderer, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be.” The monk then humbly and respectfully asked his question, but all Great Brahma did was repeat, “I am Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Ruler, Appointer and Orderer, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be.”

The monk eventually got frustrated and said, “I know you are “Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Ruler, Appointer and Orderer, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be,” but I asked you a question about where the four elements cease without remainder. The Great Brahma replied, “Listen little monk, don’t embarrass me. All these other gods are listening and think I know everything. If you want to know the answer to a question like that, don’t ask me. I don’t know the answer. For a question like that, you have to go ask the Buddha.

Our monk gets up from his meditation and finds the Buddha nearby, asking him where the four elements cease without remainder.  The Buddha tells him that he’s thinking of the question incorrectly, and should ask where do the four elements have no foothold…”

9 hours ago, CBDinfused said:

So, I am sure Leo has changed his mind a lot throughout the years but I am a bit confused on what his thoughts are on what happens when we die.

Why do you care about what Leo or anyone else thinks about death. Are you interested in experiencing life or in thinking about life? Are you looking for truth or just solace? Honestly I am not sure why Leo is even answering this, he should know better than to preach to people about things that are not in their experience. Here's all you need to know about death and life:

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by tatsumaru

[The0Self]

@tatsumaru However, if by "God," one means "what is," or unconditional love, then God is certainly beyond belief.

[BipolarGrowth]

5 hours ago, The0Self said:

@tatsumaru However, if by "God," one means "what is," or unconditional love, then God is certainly beyond belief.

Which is what God is, so...

[The0Self]

2 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Which is what God is, so...

Yeah... it was all I had other than “wrong” ? 

[BipolarGrowth]

16 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Yeah... it was all I had other than “wrong” ? 

Idk I take this knowledge for granted a lot. I forget the inexplicably epic journey I took to come to such a conclusion on a deep and meaningful level. Rather than it just being a belief or conjecture, I’ve experienced different angles of perspective all essentially pointing to that conclusion when scrutinized properly. 

[ivankiss]

9 hours ago, tatsumaru said:

Nonsense. 

Excuse me enlightened one. Did not see you there.

[_Archangel_]

18 hours ago, CBDinfused said:

I have died many times in my dreams

@CBDinfused If this happened to you, you would have noticed you would still be concious before, between and after. You cannot escape living and being conscious. Death is just a change in manifestations. Once the body dies, you will probably get a new one if you are attached to it.
Notice how this guy is trying to point to it. The real Self never incarnate, only objects do.

18 hours ago, kinesin said:

You're falling into a common trap in your thinking here, whereby you forget that although such statements are true from a certain 'enlightened' perspective, they're also false from a human experiential perspective.

@kinesin a teacher job is to point you to Truth, not engage in stupid human delusions. For normie anwers you can ask your family and friends.
You have to distinguish the circumstances in which in the question is posed: the more a person is deluded or unstable the more you play by the rules the more you give them conventional consolations. If this guy is here it means he's not satisfied with delusions.

[_Archangel_]

9 hours ago, tatsumaru said:

Nonsense. God is just the illusion of Oneness/Brahman. There's nothing beyond belief about it.

You praticly said the same thing, don't get in definition minutia@tatsumaru

[The0Self]

2 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Idk I take this knowledge for granted a lot. I forget the inexplicably epic journey I took to come to such a conclusion on a deep and meaningful level. Rather than it just being a belief or conjecture, I’ve experienced different angles of perspective all essentially pointing to that conclusion when scrutinized properly. 

I feel you. the original comment of mine you responded to was me splitting hairs (well, disagreeing) with someone else who seemed to say God was precisely not beyond belief. Or maybe I misunderstood you (or them) idk.

Edited May 15, 2021 by The0Self

[tatsumaru]

11 hours ago, The0Self said:

@tatsumaru However, if by "God," one means "what is," or unconditional love, then God is certainly beyond belief.

 

1 hour ago, _Archangel_ said:

You praticly said the same thing, don't get in definition minutia@tatsumaru

If you disregard the original definitions of the word and just make your own language that means a totally different thing then there can be no communication. God is a ancient term with a long history and has a very clear definition of what it means in all religions, I am not sure why you would take this word and use it to point to something that is beyond God and think that this was a good idea. Lao Tzu said: "The Tao created One (God) and One created Yin/Yang (Eve/Adam)". So clearly God and Tao are not equivalent. This isn't about semantics at all, it's about being trapped in the prison of Oneness/Brahman and believing this to be reality while missing Tao in the process. This is not about Oneness for there can be no One without a Many, and therefore Oneness doesn't transcend the illusion of separation.

[The0Self]

2 minutes ago, tatsumaru said:

 

If you disregard the original definitions of the word and just make your own language that means a totally different thing then there can be no communication. God is a ancient term with a long history and has a very clear definition of what it means in all religions, I am not sure why you would take this word and use it to point to something that is beyond God and think that this was a good idea. Lao Tzu said: "The Tao created One (God) and One created Yin/Yang (Eve/Adam)". So clearly God and Tao are not equivalent. This isn't about semantics at all, it's about being trapped in the prison of Oneness/Brahman and believing this to be reality while missing Tao in the process. This is not about Oneness for there can be no One without a Many, and therefore Oneness doesn't transcend the illusion of separation.

In that case you’re right. I would only say the God you describe does not exist, in my view. I was referring to what you might call the Tao. Splitting hairs maybe, but now we understand each other. My bad I guess.

Edited May 15, 2021 by The0Self

[lmfao]

@CBDinfused There is the seeing of one's own true nature. Of being infinite nothingness. And if you see it well enough, you'll see that this infinite nothingness (which is everything) is immortal. And so it is that I know that this nothingness will never die. Physical death is an illusion.

Me, Mujtaba, my human self with a name might die. I don't know. Whether I have a "soul" which will reincarnate I don't know, but thats a lower order structure to absolute infinity/nothingness. My true self won't die. Naturally this is a scary thing when seeing. My mind keeps itself distracted from seeing this. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by lmfao