Confused about Leo's teachings on death

[CBDinfused]

So, I am sure Leo has changed his mind a lot throughout the years but I am a bit confused on what his thoughts are on what happens when we die.

In his video on death he basically says we will be rejoined with the cosmic infinite cloud of love and ecstasy once the ego and illusion of self disappears. In past posts I have also seen him say things along the lines that at at one point or another we will live life through the Hitler timeline/perspective, and also we will be the cow that is sent to the slaughterhouse etc but inevitably return to the enlightened state through enlightenment or death. 

I wonder how this works from an experiential point of view? I ask as I currently understand myself to be a conscious human on earth, and I experience Leo and everyone else as distinct conscious beings as well. According to Leo's teachings, when I die I will dissolve into infinite love and then what? After like lets say a million or so years I will get bored and hit the "reset" button and wake up as a suffering cow for a couple years? 

How is any of this stuff even verifiable? I question this as many self proclaimed enlightened people have said that "death is the end" for example, or even Frank Yang who has said that he has NO idea what happens when you die, because he is not there to experience it. How the hell does Leo know what happens when we die? Did a cosmic being tell him that while on a psychadelic trip?

Edited May 14, 2021 by CBDinfused

[Leo Gura]

That's the biggest mindfuck of all.

Death never happens. You just imagine it will.

You are Eternal and you will continue to exist as the Eternal NOW forever, as you have been doing forever.

The TV is not affected by anything that happens in the movie. You are like a movie character asking what happens to the TV after the movie ends.

Quote

How is any of this stuff even verifiable?

By waking up

If you don't know what death is, you ain't awake.

[CBDinfused]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

That's the biggest mindfuck of all.

Death never happens. You just imagine it will.

Care to elaborate a little? People die around us all the time, it is hard not to imagine the same will not happen to us. 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, CBDinfused said:

People die around us all the time

False

No one has ever died. You only imagined it.

No one else exists either. It's just you imagining stuff.

[ivankiss]

What you fail to comprehend is that there is no before and no after. You already died. Or you will never die. Look at it as you wish.

Maybe an easier way to look at this is by imagining yourself both dead and born at the same time. That's pretty much how it is. You were born and you died in the very same moment. Impossible? Exactly.

Humans are not conscious. 'Humans' is an idea. Consciousness is humans - if anything.

[bazera]

@Leo Gura So, what do you think will happen to an experience of a deeply asleep person, when the physical body stops functioning?

Will he just change a form and go into a different realm that will seem as real as this one?

WIll he instantly realize that it was all God all along and merge with itself?

Or what?

[Shin]

2 minutes ago, CBDinfused said:

Care to elaborate a little? People die around us all the time, it is hard not to imagine the same will not happen to us. 

How many times did you die in your dreams ?

Did you stop experiencing something when you died ?

After contemplating those two questions, ask yourself what death is.

[CBDinfused]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

False

No one has ever died. You only imagined it.

No one else exists either. It's just you imagining stuff.

Ok I am fine with this line of reasoning, but back to my original question: I right now am experiencing life in a particular way. I have an quite distinct identity, I have friends and family around me. I experience TIME. I can plan for the future.

Question: What will happen if I took a shotgun and just blew my brains out? (I am not going to of course, but just for the thought experiment). Would the narrative restart somehow? Would the "awareness" that is currently seeing things behind my eyes all of a sudden be seeing a bunch of DMT-esque lights and patterns and eventually I would forget all of this and be "aware" in another form? And if yes or no, how do you speak with such authority on the topic?

[CBDinfused]

4 minutes ago, Shin said:

How many times did you die in your dreams ?

Did you stop experiencing something when you died ?

After contemplating those two questions, ask yourself what death is.

I have died many times in my dreams, but I was myself in my dreams, and I was myself when I woke up. So you are saying when I die in this realm, I will still be me? (CBDinfused?)

[Shin]

3 minutes ago, CBDinfused said:

I have died many times in my dreams, but I was myself in my dreams, and I was myself when I woke up. So you are saying when I die in this realm, I will still be me? (CBDinfused?)

No I'm saying you're not CBDinfused or any of the characters you ever experienced.

You're imagining going to sleep having "dreams" and you're imagining waking up from CBD's "dreams".

[Juliano Zn]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are Eternal and you will continue to exist as the Eternal NOW forever, as you have been doing forever.

@Leo Gura So when this body that I think I'm looking through the eyes now dies, what will remain? And if right now the only thing that exists is this moment - what I am aware of - and everything else outside awareness is just a thought,  if this body dies in this room I'll become the room? And then what?

[CBDinfused]

10 minutes ago, Shin said:

No I'm saying you're not CBDinfused or any of the characters you ever experienced.

You're imagining going to sleep having "dreams" and you're imagining waking up from CBD's "dreams".

Shin, I appreciate your replies, I wonder if you can perhaps lay out in clear terms though, the main argument here? I understand quite well the position of most people on this forum that "there is no self" "all is one".

Fine.

The fact of the matter is that you would make a lot of people unfamiliar with your position quite angry. Imagine walking into a Church or a Mosque and telling someone "you are not you" "this is all just imagined" "you are god and you imagined all of this". You (Shin) would get an imaginary punch in the face. 

Can you please clarify how I (CBDInfused), who considers himself "aware", "conscious" etc and somewhat distinct from you (Shin) or Leo, clarify how my realm of experience, my lens of perception is just an imagination, and that I am also you (who I imagine also has somewhat a distinct lense of perception?)?. How are you actually linking these two together? 

I understand you could make some atomic argument like "where does the I end and you begin?" in the physical realm (Holism etc), but still. My consciousness is still "mine" (CBDInfused). 

Edited May 14, 2021 by CBDinfused

[Tim R]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's the biggest mindfuck of all.

@Leo Gura Even more than the mindfuck of being God?

[kinesin]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

False

No one has ever died. You only imagined it.

No one else exists either. It's just you imagining stuff.

You're falling into a common trap in your thinking here, whereby you forget that although such statements are true from a certain 'enlightened' perspective, they're also false from a human experiential perspective.  When people refer to the death of an individual, you know exactly what they mean.  You know exactly what the emotions are which go along with that experience.  When a person is at risk of death, you make efforts to save them from it - because in this reality we live and exist within, we care about preserving the illusory forms of ourselves and those around us.  Just a few days ago you tried wholeheartedly to protect Connor Murphy from unwittingly destroying his life by reminding him that these illusions are also undeniably real in the subjective, despite their illusory objective nature.  When it came to a real situation with a real person in need, you didn't try to argue that death was just an illusion, you reminded him it was real.

I can't help but notice a common pattern among spiritual communities where people become so concerned with appearing to embody the teachings that they end up presenting bizarre perspectives where they claim not to be able to understand certain subjective human realities like the existence of death in the realm of form, or the distinction of the self from the environment.  It's important that as we awaken, we do not lose touch with the subjective human experience.  We have to continue to play along with the act regardless of what we know about the objective truth.

[RedLine]

4 minutes ago, Tim R said:

@Leo Gura Even more than the mindfuck of being God?

it is the same, if you are God how can you die...

[CBDinfused]

15 minutes ago, kinesin said:

You're falling into a common trap in your thinking here, whereby you forget that although such statements are true from a certain 'enlightened' perspective, they're also false from a human experiential perspective.  When people refer to the death of an individual, you know exactly what they mean.  You know exactly what the emotions are which go along with that experience.  When a person is at risk of death, you make efforts to save them from it - because in this reality we live and exist within, we care about preserving the illusory forms of ourselves and those around us.  Just a few days ago you tried wholeheartedly to protect Connor Murphy from unwittingly destroying his life by reminding him that these illusions are also undeniably real in the subjective, despite their illusory objective nature.  When it came to a real situation with a real person in need, you didn't try to argue that death was just an illusion, you reminded him it was real.

I can't help but notice a common pattern among spiritual communities where people become so concerned with appearing to embody the teachings that they end up presenting bizarre perspectives where they claim not to be able to understand certain subjective human realities like the existence of death in the realm of form, or the distinction of the self from the environment.  It's important that as we awaken, we do not lose touch with the subjective human experience.  We have to continue to play along with the act regardless of what we know about the objective truth.

This exactly. Maybe it makes perfect sense in Leo's mind but it does literally nothing for a person like myself who is critical and loves to pursue truth in its most crude form. I will not be convinced if he answers my posts with the equivalent of "Because I said so.."

[Shin]

29 minutes ago, CBDinfused said:

Shin, I appreciate your replies, I wonder if you can perhaps lay out in clear terms though, the main argument here? I understand quite well the position of most people on this forum that "there is no self" "all is one".

Fine.

The fact of the matter is that you would make a lot of people unfamiliar with your position quite angry. Imagine walking into a Church or a Mosque and telling someone "you are not you" "this is all just imagined" "you are god and you imagined all of this". You (Shin) would get an imaginary punch in the face. 

Can you please clarify how I (CBDInfused), who considers himself "aware", "conscious" etc and somewhat distinct from you (Shin) or Leo, clarify how my realm of experience, my lens of perception is just an imagination, and that I am also you (who I imagine also has somewhat a distinct lense of perception?)?. How are you actually linking these two together? 

I understand you could make some atomic argument like "where does the I end and you begin?" in the physical realm (Holism etc), but still. My consciousness is still "mine" (CBDInfused). 

The thing is, you can't explain this with words.
The best you can do is give elaborated and cute "signposts" as Eckhart Tolle would say.

You understand this when you are directly experiencing it.

In a way it's like saying that you want to understand what League of Legends is, as an ant, you're not gonna understand what League of Legends is unless you become a human being.
That analogy is deeply flawed though, because you don't "become God", you realize you were it all along (already are it).

An another analogy, which is just that, an analogy, so not the truth that can only be experienced directly,
Would be the lucid dreaming experience, when you become lucid you're in a dream, and that everything is you, which also means you're nothing in particular.
You don't "become" the entire dream, you were the entire dream believing to be just one character in the dream.

That's probably the best you can do with words without being too cryptic.
If you want to know more, don't, try to directly experience what this point to, that's how you'll "understand" (Leo has video about that, there are psychedelics, self inquiry, and also genuine desire to know the truth is necessary).

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Shin

[CBDinfused]

5 minutes ago, Shin said:

The thing is, you can't explain this with words.

The best you can do is give elaborated and cute "signposts" as Eckhart Tolle would say.

You understand this when you are directly experiencing it.

In a way it's like saying that you want to understand what League of Legends is as an ant, you're not gonna understand unless you become a human being.That analogy is flawed though, because you don't become "God", you realize you were it all along (already are it)

 

Could you perhaps try to explain why you know better than other self proclaimed enlightened beings? Frank Yang says that he doesn't know what happens when we die, but you do? Same with people like Michael Taft / Daniel Ingram? They say death is the end. 

[Shin]

11 minutes ago, CBDinfused said:

Could you perhaps try to explain why you know better than other self proclaimed enlightened beings? Frank Yang says that he doesn't know what happens when we die, but you do? Same with people like Michael Taft / Daniel Ingram? They say death is the end. 

I don't know how they could think that if they have seen or if they are directly seeing that the sense of self is a construction (which is the same as saying that physical death is not the end, since you'll experience something else as God).

They must say this because they want to be extremely safe in their talk, or they aren't as awake as they say.

You don't have to believe me, or Leo, or someone else on this forum, 95% of spiritual teachers tells you that when you die, it's just a fake sense of self that dies, nothing more.

More importantly, don't believe anyone and discover what's true for yourself, why do you need to believe something is true if you want to truly know if it is ?
You'll know directly from you own direct experience, other people's opinions doesn't matter, they are distractions from you doing what you need to do to realize what's true.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Shin

[ivankiss]

1 hour ago, CBDinfused said:

I currently understand myself to be a conscious human on earth

How did you come to that conclusion? Can you see how that is just a belief you adopted?

If everyone was telling you your whole life that you're a dolphin - that's what you'd believe.

Until one day you'd randomly wake up from that idea. You'd see it for what it is. Just an idea in your mind.

'God' is beyond belief. It's beyond any assumption or conclusion. 

1 hour ago, CBDinfused said:

How the hell does Leo know what happens when we die? 

I'm assuming it's because he faced death directly. I don't know. There's no real way for me to confirm that. But I can relate to a lot of stuff he's saying.

'The answer cannot be found in the writing of others or the words of a trained mind'

Edited May 14, 2021 by ivankiss