there is no way self inquiry is THIS EASY

[spiritualryan]

there is no way it's this easy... all it is, is to keep attention on the "i" thought and see what it refers to, yes? no way that's it... to realize i am god and to lose all my fears and unhappiness... it can't be that easy. i genuinely don't believe it. i love you ramana.

Edited May 13, 2021 by spiritualryan
fixed a sentence.

[kinesin]

@spiritualryan Why can't it be that easy?  Where is your surprise originating from?  Where is your struggle to believe in the easiness coming from?

I'm kidding, but also poking toward a greater truth, which is that no, it's not quite that easy.  You're definitely on the right path, but make no mistake it's a long path with many false peaks which later give way to further insight as you realise there's still much further to go.

 

 

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, spiritualryan said:

it can't be that easy.

It's not that easy.

You must concentrate like a motherfucker until your state changes.

You will not get anywhere without insane concentration.

[Javfly33]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not that easy.

You must concentrate like a motherfucker until your state changes.

You will not get anywhere without insane concentration.

And even then your state unfortunately falls down after a while.

And by the way Leo do you actually think you can realize you are God just by doing self inquiry?

I mean I personally had a great awakening doing self inquiry a year ago but there wasn't even close to realising I am God. It was just a peaceful, quiet, no-mind, higher state of awareness..I mean great and all but I wasn't able to concur that I am God from that state. ?

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

And by the way Leo do you actually think you can realize you are God just by doing self inquiry?

Possible, but not likely.

And even if you do it, it probably won't be a deep realization.

The first time it happened to be on a meditation retreat, sober, I realized the divine, but I did not realize I was God. That came much later.

[Mason Riggle]

@Javfly33 maybe you just need to redefine the word 'God' to realize you're it? 

If it's realized that there is no 'self' separate from 'that which is not self', 'Everything there IS' becomes 'what you are'. 

"I have no other Self than the totality of thing of which I am aware." - Alan Watts. 

This quote by Watts seems a bit contradictory, "I have no Self"... but what is meant is that there is no 'self' SEPARATE from 'what there is'... the same way there is no 'outside of a cup' separate from 'the inside of a cup'.. each is defined relative to the other... you can't have 'just the outside of a cup, separate from the inside of the cup'.. there is just 'the whole cup'.  The 'you' is only defined relative to 'that which is not you'.  God is 'the whole cup' pretending to be 'the inside' relative to 'the outside', and that's what you are. 

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Javfly33]

15 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

@Javfly33 maybe you just need to redefine the word 'God' to realize you're it? 

If it's realized that there is no 'self' separate from 'that which is not self', 'Everything there IS' becomes 'what you are'. 

"I have no other Self than the totality of thing of which I am aware." - Alan Watts. 

This quote by Watts seems a bit contradictory, "I have no Self"... but what is meant is that there is no 'self' SEPARATE from 'what there is'... the same way there is no 'outside of a cup' separate from 'the inside of a cup'.. each is defined relative to the other... you can't have 'just the outside of a cup, separate from the inside of the cup'.. there is just 'the whole cup'.  The 'you' is only defined relative to 'that which is not you'.  God is 'the whole cup' pretending to be 'the inside' relative to 'the outside', and that's what you are. 

 

@Mason Riggle I get that, non duality and such.

But even if I contemple the possibility of being the present moment completely with no referent "I", which I had those moments, I can't intere from that I created the whole universe.

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

And even if you do it, it probably won't be a deep realization.

 

See this is what I don't get. 

If you realize you are God, then you are God. How could it be different levels of deepness? I can understand they can be levels regarding understanding reality.

But being God it's seems a 1+1 thing. Either you are it or Not. ?

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, spiritualryan said:

there is no way it's this easy... all it is, is to keep attention on the "i" thought and see what it refers to, yes? no way that's it... to realize i am god and to lose all my fears and unhappiness... it can't be that easy. i genuinely don't believe it. i love you ramana.

If it seems easy, you ain't doing it right. It should feel SIMPLE, but absolutely not easy. It was the hardest thing "I" ever did.

Here's what you do: every thought and feeling and experience, turn away from it and look for the knower of it. Catch the knower -- if you caught the knower, that ain't the knower, because YOU know it, so catch its knower. And so on. Again, it's SO SIMPLE, but absolutely not easy. The states this process can produce are beyond belief.

You literally keep doing this for hours. It is not easy. You can realize God this way, as well as the witness, and beyond, The witness is something so profound -- you really feel like God looking in at experience. And that's not even the end. Keep going until experience collapses. Keep going until you forget where you are -- no here means no there -- consciousness illusion is seen by no one. These words don't even come close. It's simultaneously too profound and too ordinary -- you can't put that into words.

It's actually so hard and takes so much faith, you might be better off simply attaching attention to awareness (or the effortless NOW of which there is no other) and leaving it there.

Edited May 13, 2021 by The0Self

[Nahm]

4 hours ago, spiritualryan said:

there is no way it's this easy... all it is, is to keep attention on the "i" thought and see what it refers to, yes? no way that's it... to realize i am god and to lose all my fears and unhappiness... it can't be that easy. i genuinely don't believe it. i love you ramana.

? ?? Indeed, unbelievable. The ‘my’ can go to. I dare say... this self inquiry is even easier / more direct. 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

See this is what I don't get. 

If you realize you are God, then you are God. How could it be different levels of deepness? I can understand they can be levels regarding understanding reality.

But being God it's seems a 1+1 thing. Either you are it or Not. ?

God is too staggering to fit your simplistic little logical schemes.

Infinity is a fucked up thing and your human mind will not even come close to making sense of it.

[Mason Riggle]

1 minute ago, Javfly33 said:

@Mason Riggle I get that, non duality and such.

But even if I contemple the possibility of being the present moment completely with no referent "I", which I had those moments, I can't intere from that I created the whole universe.

Here is more duality.. 'I [God] created the whole universe [God]'..  'created' can be substituted for 'experienced'.. 'God experiencing God'. 

There really isn't an 'experiencer who experiences experience'.. there is just 'experience'.  

There is no 'creator who creates creation'.. there is just 'creation'.

There is no 'doer who does what's being done'.. there is just 'being'. 

And that's what you are. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

But being God it's seems a 1+1 thing. Either you are it or Not. ?

You're always it, even when what you are is the experience of not being it. 

[RedLine]

The instructions are easy but the excersie is not easy because the mind will trick you all the time.

[The0Self]

46 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The first time it happened to be on a meditation retreat, sober, I realized the divine, but I did not realize I was God. That came much later.

Yeah... However... If you've realized you're God authentically (on 5meo or LSD or ketamine+LSD, etc) self inquiry can be ridiculously powerful thereafter.

[spiritualryan]

@The0Self  what dose of LSD would you recommend? i have a lot of acid and i really want to experience realizing god. i'm thinking 400-500 mcg? it's 1p-lsd btw.

[gettoefl]

On diving deep upon the quest "Who am I and from whence?", thoughts disappear and consciousness of Self then flashes forth as the "I-I" within the cavity of every seeker's Heart.

RM

[James123]

4 hours ago, spiritualryan said:

there is no way it's this easy... all it is, is to keep attention on the "i" thought and see what it refers to, yes? no way that's it... to realize i am god and to lose all my fears and unhappiness... it can't be that easy. i genuinely don't believe it. i love you ramana.

No. It is easy, ones you let go yourself, it becomes like falling of from cliff. It is all based  on how much is important your life or yourself for you? Thats it. 

[The0Self]

2 hours ago, spiritualryan said:

@The0Self  what dose of LSD would you recommend? i have a lot of acid and i really want to experience realizing god. i'm thinking 400-500 mcg? it's 1p-lsd btw.

110ug for me. LSD-25. 1P is far less powerful. I know it feels similar, but how many times have you gotten ego death on 1P? Exactly. LSD is far more powerful even though the visuals are basically the same.

[billiesimon]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Possible, but not likely.

And even if you do it, it probably won't be a deep realization.

The first time it happened to be on a meditation retreat, sober, I realized the divine, but I did not realize I was God. That came much later.

What's your opinion on Ramana and Shankara stating that knowledge and self inquiry are the direct path to oneness?

It must be possibile. I've had several realizations of the illusory nature of perceptions and identity with self inquiry. But not god realization. That happened with psychs.

But nonetheless.... self inquiry is way more powerful than meditation in deconstructing identity.

[Consilience]

5 hours ago, The0Self said:

If it seems easy, you ain't doing it right. It should feel SIMPLE, but absolutely not easy. It was the hardest thing "I" ever did.

Here's what you do: every thought and feeling and experience, turn away from it and look for the knower of it. Catch the knower -- if you caught the knower, that ain't the knower, because YOU know it, so catch its knower. And so on. Again, it's SO SIMPLE, but absolutely not easy. The states this process can produce are beyond belief.

You literally keep doing this for hours. It is not easy. You can realize God this way, as well as the witness, and beyond, The witness is something so profound -- you really feel like God looking in at experience. And that's not even the end. Keep going until experience collapses. Keep going until you forget where you are -- no here means no there -- consciousness illusion is seen by no one. These words don't even come close. It's simultaneously too profound and too ordinary -- you can't put that into words.

It's actually so hard and takes so much faith, you might be better off simply attaching attention to awareness (or the effortless NOW of which there is no other) and leaving it there.

This is such a useful response, read this carefully OP.

Spend 4 hours just sitting and asking “Who am I?” And study the immense suffering “you” start to experience as a result of the lack of stimulation and then re-asses how easy of a practice is it. Any feelings of suffering, separation, boredom, agitation, anger, stress, or even varying degrees of bliss/happiness are not it. Keep digging. Keep watching as the mind psychically projects its bullshit over and over and over. And then return to the question. This would be the hardest 4 hours of your life. 

Ive often found combing self inquiry with Shinzen Young’s See Hear Feel technique quite powerful. “Who sees?” Focus on what/who is observing the visual space. Repeat for the auditory and somatic spaces. “Who hears?” “Who feels?” This helps deconstruct the sense of self into its perceptual aggregates and see how strictly speaking, there’s nothing holding the sense together except thoughts (mental imagery, mental talk, and emotional body sensations all knot together forming a sense of I and identification with the body). This then makes returning to the question more broadly “Who am I?” pack a deeper punch. 

[Mahyar]

Perhaps, it would be much better to invent another word instead of using the word "God". The word "God" has so many background ideologies drilled into our minds from society. To understand what is being sought here, I found it easier to self-enquire without using language because language is also an invention of humankind and will impose limitations, but when you want to understand this stuff, you are going far beyond just humankind. It's much easier to make sense of it only if you detach from all the words and ideas that carry some charge from the past. it's about feeling and experiencing it. Any endeavour to "Know" God will fail you. It can only be felt and experienced. Also, this life and all there is, it's not "Created", Creation is something that requires another dimension which is time (And maybe some more), However, the "God" that we are looking for, has not created because it "IS", not made or created. Another way of thinking that I found very helpful, is having a sense of self-control and not rushing into just understand god, but releasing yourself from knowing just god. It's all about understanding what is this being like and approaching it from a different angle, it's like you are stepping into asking yourself infinite questions and suddenly something will click. If you also realize the interconnectedness of everything, you also realize that you (The human) is creating everything. and there is only one direction which everything is moving towards and only one thing can push one thing into a single direction. Another way that I found very helpful in understanding God, is letting go of any fear and surrendering yourself (Ego). You need to stop fearing any consequence from knowing god. "God" will not punish you for trying to know it. It in fact will reward you for trying to know it. And the reward is humbleness and your utmost love for everything. Stop looking into an unknown future from the point "now" and instead start looking back to a known lifetime from the point of "death" and once you do it, you realize you are creating everything. After all, becoming independent in your way of discovering Truth, and having confidence that you definitely can do it, will help a lot. I hope you find this helpful.