Personal Development With Enlightenment

[aurum]

8 minutes ago, Self-Mastery said:

@aurum So, You have to work on personal development before, during, and after enlightenment in Ralston, Adyashanti and Ken Wilber's opinion. Am I right?

By the way, which of Ken Wilber's books do you recommend to read? I want to know more about the connection between PD and and enlightenment.

You don't HAVE to do anything obviously. But yes, if you read Pursuing Consciousness by Ralston or The End of Your World by Adyashanti, they talk about the importance that personal development can play before and after an enlightenment experience.

Wilber is tough to recommend, because he's highly academic. Just jumping in and reading him is tough. But I know many people like A Brief History of Everything. I'd suggest moving on to others after that like Integral Spirituality and Integral Psychology.

I actually read all these books BECAUSE I was so confused after my own enlightenment experience. Life WTF, I realized I'm God and experienced the void, yet I still can't seem to resist Facebook? What gives?

[Marina]

@aurum  I didn't find Ken Wilber's No Boundary academic at all... It was actually a very easy and enjoyable read. In my opinion, obviously.

[The]

@Wormon Blatburm do your thing buddy.. 

I'd love to watch your movie instead of some 80's remake, even if yours is just a fairytale.. 

Personally I feel there's too many "spirit  ual" people already, that are causing more problems than good.. too many not so holy spirits out there judging and stalking the unconscious doing terrible things in the name of love giving love a bad name

Edited November 2, 2016 by Vegeta

[aurum]

4 minutes ago, Marina said:

@aurum  I didn't find Ken Wilber's No Boundary academic at all... It was actually a very easy and enjoyable read. In my opinion, obviously.

Haven't read it! I'll check it out, thanks.

[Leo Gura]

@Vercingetorix Ekhart Tolle is an interesting example. After his first enlightenment he supposedly spent 2 YEARS full-time sitting on a park bench integrating it.

For him, 2 years is equivalent to you doing 20 years of personal development work.

And I bet Tolle still continues to work on himself.

And just because 1 person in a billion has a deep breakthrough, doesn't mean that you will.

And in point of fact we have no idea how deep his enlightenment or development really goes.

It's not a good idea to use someone like Ekhart Tolle or Bill Gates as your benchmark, whether you're pursuing enlightenment or money. Hate to break it to ya, but you probably ain't Tolle or Gates.

[Marina]

17 minutes ago, aurum said:

Haven't read it! I'll check it out, thanks.

You're welcome

[Self-Mastery]

28 minutes ago, Marina said:

@aurum  I didn't find Ken Wilber's No Boundary academic at all... It was actually a very easy and enjoyable read. In my opinion, obviously.

Leo also suggested this book as the first book to read from Wilber! I have to check it out.

[Kserkkj]

@Leo Gura Hey Leo, when you say real communication, what do you mean? Personally, I believe my normal pragmatic language, communication skills to be quite inadequate. So if I mastered the English language completely, would I really be able to communicate then? lol 

I'm guessing real communication is silence related?? Like Ramana Maharshi when he said he was able to communicate with animals or sth like that??

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

COMPLETE ENLIGHTENMENT is virtually unheard of.

Also, Leo, many times in your video you mention full-enlightenment, like when you say you're not "fully-enlightened yet", you imply that it's possible?? and the interview you plan on releasing with the person who apparently is fully enlightened through 5-meo-dmt usage for a year????

Edited November 3, 2016 by Kserkkj

[Marina]

35 minutes ago, Self-Mastery said:

Leo also suggested this book as the first book to read from Wilber! I have to check it out.

I completely agree. It's written in a really simple language with just several pages of somewhat academic style of writing. They are in the very beginning of the book, where Ken talks about his "Spectrum of Personal Development." Aside from those several pages, it's a breeze of a book.

It was extremely eye-opening for me at the time I read it. I remember wanting to underline almost every single sentence of the book lol

[AlwaysBeNice]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Vercingetorix Ekhart Tolle is an interesting example. After his first enlightenment he supposedly spent 2 YEARS full-time sitting on a park bench integrating it.

For him, 2 years is equivalent to you doing 20 years of personal development work.

And I bet Tolle still continues to work on himself.

And just because 1 person in a billion has a deep breakthrough, doesn't mean that you will.

And in point of fact we have no idea how deep his enlightenment or development really goes.

It's not a good idea to use someone like Ekhart Tolle or Bill Gates as your benchmark, whether you're pursuing enlightenment or money. Hate to break it to ya, but you probably ain't Tolle or Gates.

I disagree, we are all blessed to remember God if we just learn to let ourselves go, which just takes (a lot of) joyful practice, perhaps some psychedelics/weed in the proper setting. 

[Chrissy j]

@Leo Gura How about life purpose? Your life calling. How much will enlightenment alter your life purpose? How can you gauge how authentic your life purpose is now? And wouldn't it be better to just get enlightened first? Then find/follow your life purpose? Your passion?

[Leo Gura]

@MochaSlap Anywhere from 0% to 100%, depending on your particulars.

[Denis]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Vercingetorix Ekhart Tolle is an interesting example. After his first enlightenment he supposedly spent 2 YEARS full-time sitting on a park bench integrating it.

For him, 2 years is equivalent to you doing 20 years of personal development work.

And I bet Tolle still continues to work on himself.

And just because 1 person in a billion has a deep breakthrough, doesn't mean that you will.

And in point of fact we have no idea how deep his enlightenment or development really goes.

It's not a good idea to use someone like Ekhart Tolle or Bill Gates as your benchmark, whether you're pursuing enlightenment or money. Hate to break it to ya, but you probably ain't Tolle or Gates.

@Leo Gura Eckhart himself said that he had no idea what has happened to him when the shift occurred.   It was only many years later when he was in India working with spiritual teachers that he realized that which they were seeking had already happened to him.  After his enlightenment Tolle spent many years studying Buddhism and other religions.   And even to this day he meditates each day for a few hours.  Sounds like personal development to me lol 

[Bob84]

@MochaSlap What Leo said + do life purpose first. As in a sense it gives you tools that help you on the path and has a practical aplication.

[Vercingetorix]

@Leo Gura seems wise 

So for the sake of communication,

someone who experienced a "no ego experience" is an enlightened person and someone who transcended his wife completely is "fully enlightened"?

 

[Leo Gura]

@Vercingetorix No, it has to be more than a no-ego experience. It has to be permanent realization of what you are.

And that's just the first step on the path.

Full enlightenment we cannot even begin to fathom. Might as well forget about it for now. Even the first step you cannot yet fathom how mindblowing it is.

Maybe after 40 years of constant work you can start to throw around a term like full enlightenment. This is very serious stuff.

[WelcometoReality]

I suggest doing self improvement before enlightenment because it might be the case that self improvement is not of interest to you anymore afterwards.

[electroBeam]

@Leo Gura Lol serious? after your physical death its all going to mean nothing. You are literally acting like one of those hard core league of legend players, who thinks this game we call life is the be all and end all.

No spiritual teacher holds god as sacredly and seriously as your views proclaim. Even the ancient buddhist monks who travelled the eight fold path. Buddhist, for example, have skulls inside their temples to remind them to laugh: because the fear of death is fuelled by an illusion. Its not that serious. The skulls, the fear of death that everyone has, is all a joke by god.

There are Zen Koans that make buddhist people laugh every time they read it, because it reminds them that all of the suffering in this universe, is from their seriousness with reality.

When you look at biographies of people into spirituality, its only the Tony Robbins sort of 'hungry for success' people who take enlightenment as seriously as your views proclaim, because they all have a deep American personal development 'be hungry' attitude dogmatically instilled in their subconscious.Speaking from someone whose had that real American go getter attitude all my life, I can assure you its the case.

I have spoken to a lot of spiritual teachers in the last year, and watched many spiritual videos, and all of them tell me that seriousness is what keeps the ego alive. Enjoy life, because its all going to mean nothing in the end. im talking about actual buddhist monks here in australia, one who lived out in the outback for 8 years to get away from humanity.

“People suffer only because they take seriously what the gods made for fun.” ~ Alan Watts. Maybe that's where your suffering is coming from Leo? The fact that you think all of this shit is serious.

Don't worry, when you finally realize that your seriousness for human perfection is the cause of all of your suffering, you will laugh too.

http://www.thewayofmeditation.com.au/blog/it-turns-out-enlightenment-is-just-having-a-really-good-sense-of-humour/

Edited November 3, 2016 by electroBeam

[Prabhaker]

25 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Enjoy life, because its all going to mean nothing in the end.

When a rich person comes to spirituality, he has money, he has employment, he has a house, he has health—he has everything that one can have. And suddenly he has come to a realization that nothing is fulfilling. Then the search for something higher starts.
Yes, sometimes a poor man can also be spiritual, but for that very great intelligence is needed.

28 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

im talking about actual buddhist monks here in australia, one who lived out in the outback for 8 years to get away from humanity.

I am talking about Buddha himself. Are these Buddhist monks wiser than Buddha ?

Buddha was a prince, he had everything. He left his kingdom to find the last, ultimate luxury. 

When your bodily needs are fulfilled, psychological needs arise. When your psychological needs are also fulfilled, then your spiritual needs arise. When a person has listened to all the music that is available in the world, and has seen all the beauty, and has found that it is all dream; has listened to all the great poets, and has found that it is just a way to forget yourself, just a way to intoxicate yourself, but it does not lead you anywhere; has seen all the paintings and the great art—amusing, entertaining, but then what…? Then hands remain empty, more empty than they ever were before.

Spirituality is luxury—the last, ultimate luxury. A rich man, if he is not spiritual, is stupid. A poor man, if he is spiritual , is tremendously intelligent.

Those Buddhist monks are escapists, they may know about techniques to reach meditation but meditation is not their experience. Meditation is a luxury , meditation makes life a celebration. 

[Extreme Z7]

50 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

@Leo Gura Lol serious? after your physical death its all going to mean nothing. You are literally acting like one of those hard core league of legend players, who thinks this game we call life is the be all and end all.

No spiritual teacher holds god as sacredly and seriously as your views proclaim. Even the ancient buddhist monks who travelled the eight fold path. Buddhist had skulls insider their temples for example to remind them of how much of a joke death was, and how meaningless life really is.

When you look at biographies of people into spirituality, its only the Tony Robbins sort of 'hungry for success' people who take enlightenment as seriously as your views proclaim, because they all have a deep American personal development 'be hungry' attitude dogmatically instilled in their subconscious.Speaking from someone whose had that real American go getter attitude all my life, I can assure you its the case.

I have spoken to a lot of spiritual teachers in the last year, and watched many spiritual videos, and all of them tell me that seriousness is what keeps the ego alive. Enjoy life, because its all going to mean nothing in the end. im talking about actual buddhist monks here in australia, one who lived out in the outback for 8 years to get away from humanity.

 

Can't disagree with that, actually. But then again, I think Leo might have used the word 'serious' in a different context. Either way, still don't disagree with what you said. Taking life too seriously leads to misery in my experience.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Extreme Z7