Narcissistic People

[Zigzag Idiot]

On 5/12/2021 at 8:08 PM, JessiChell said:

What are your thoughts on narcissistic people? 
Is it true they truly don’t care about others or have empathy? 
Would a narcissist ever be able to recognize they need to work on themselves and begin?

I’ve been doing a lot of research and watching Dr Ramani videos to better understand them for reference. 

A.H. Almaas has studied and used the findings of Margaret Mahler quite a bit in his Work. He divides narcissism into different categories. Below are a few of his quotes about Narcissism from his glossary. If you want to dig further, here is the page from his glossary containing 13 different listings about Narcissism. https://www.diamondapproach.org/glossary/alphabetical?alphabet=14

 

Approaching the Dimension of Essential Presence We Inevitably Confront the Narcissism Inherent in Our Disconnection from that Presence

When a person is working on self-realization, this narcissism is increasingly exposed; in fact, it is usually aggravated for some time. When we approach the dimension of essential presence we inevitably confront the narcissism inherent in our disconnection from that presence. The success of the work on self-realization depends, to a great degree, upon successfully resolving the arousal and intensification of narcissistic manifestations. The narcissism of everyday life is much more ubiquitous, much deeper, and much more significant than we usually allow ourselves to see. However, it dissolves steadily in the deeper stages of self-realization. Full self-realization completely eliminates this narcissism, for it is not natural to the realized self

The Point of Existence, pg. 27

 

Complete Resolution of Narcissism Requires that We Cease to use Self-representations for Self-recognition

Before we embark on this exploration, we need to address the significance of the above discussion with respect to narcissism. Our observation that the deepest root of narcissism is the absence of self-realization and the additional observation that in full self-realization the normal sense of identity dissolves, combine to give us a deep insight about narcissism: The presence of the normal identity is the root of narcissism. This implies two further insights, at different levels of the self. The first is that not only is normal identity fundamentally weak and vulnerable, but its very existence is responsible for this weakness, and thus it cannot become completely stable. In other words, the normal self (or more accurately, the ego-self) is inherently narcissistic because its identity is inherently weak and vulnerable. This weakness is due to the inevitable incompleteness of the self-representation, and therefore cannot be eliminated as long as the self-representation forms our sense of identity. Second, since the fundamental narcissism of everyday life is an expression of normal identity, complete resolution of narcissism requires that we cease to use self-representations for self-recognition.

The Point of Existence, pg. 129

 

No Conventional Self is Ever Free from the Narcissism of Everyday Life (Fundamental Narcissism)

We call this fundamental narcissism “the narcissism of everyday life” for no conventional self is ever free from it. However, this may bring up the question of how this dissolution of identity is related to the condition of fragmentation or disintegration of identity, which is, under normal
circumstances, a manifestation of pathological narcissism. The main difference between the “death of the self” in self-realization and the disintegration of identity in pathological narcissism is that the former is a developmental achievement based on the greater strength and flexibility of identity, while the latter is a developmental difficulty resulting from an extreme weakness and brittleness of the identity. There is no sense of the normal self in both conditions, but the former is a state of equanimity of the self for being fully itself, so fully itself that there is no need for self-reflection, while the latter is a painful and deficient state of the self, where it feels disconnected from its depth and fullness. The former is a state of self recognition not based on any representation, for it is recognizing what is actually present, while the latter is a state where there is no self-recognition of any kind.

The Point of Existence, pg. 525

 

 

 

 

[Hyacinth]

What to do when you actually have to deal with narcissistic people? What if its your mother or sister? How do you make the relationship bearable without sacrificing your sanity lol. Have you guys met anyone who was narcissistic then changed?

Edited May 17, 2021 by Hyacinth

[Nahm]

14 minutes ago, Hyacinth said:

What to do when you actually have to deal with narcissistic people? What if its your mother or sister? How do you make the relationship bearable without sacrificing your sanity lol. Have you guys met anyone who was narcissistic then changed?

I’ve worked with quite a few and found taking ownership of thought & feeling to be the key. In this sense, one is never actually having to deal with narcissistic people, and see’s this as one’s own projection of an individual ‘there’ where there is not. A more simple but blunt was to say it is you’re feeling your thoughts, they’re feeling there thoughts, neither has to ‘deal’ with the other really. In the projecting of an individual or separate self (the narcissist) is the underlying implicit self referential projection as the victim of. Spotting and releasing self referential thought (since you can’t think yourself / delusion), and instead aligning and dissolving thought in feeling, similar to what @Zigzag Idiot posted (or at least perhaps my overly simplifying interpretation of it). In short, let them touch the stove, as words don’t teach. Let them be a bull in a china shop, but not your china shop, theirs. Choose your boundaries in mind, just as you would of the body. Put your focus on what resonates, it allows others an example to do the same. 

[Consept]

I came across this channel and found it really interesting. Basically this chica is a diagnosed sociopath and narcissist and setup a YouTube channel to take away the stigma there is toward those with her condition. I must say I learnt a lot from her vids as normally when this topic is talked about it frames then as evil, which I understand the reasons for but it's good to her insight from someone who has it and is self aware 

 

[Zeroguy]

@Consept Would not forgive.

[Raptorsin7]

@Zeroguy Why not just have sympathy and understanding? But at the same time these kinds of people are dangerous and you have to protect yourself first and foremost

[Consept]

6 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Zeroguy Why not just have sympathy and understanding? But at the same time these kinds of people are dangerous and you have to protect yourself first and foremost

This is thing, you still have to have your boundaries, especially if the person isnt even self aware of their condition, as you say you have to protect yourself. But that doesnt mean there cant be compassion for the person, they obviously didnt choose to have the condition and it must cause them great pain as well. I think Kanikas videos help with understanding and take away a lot of the hate thats thrown at people with npd or other conditions. 

Also it makes you think about free will and choice, are people with npd really choosing to act this way? 

[Nahm]

Never resolved by diagnosis as individual separate selves. That feeds into the very heart of the suffering and perpetuates. Only the truth, or true nature will do. Not adding delusion, judgement, isolations, etc. Treat symptoms, ease symptoms, rather than weave an identity. 

[Zeroguy]

6 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Zeroguy Why not just have sympathy and understanding? But at the same time these kinds of people are dangerous and you have to protect yourself first and foremost

Who says I would keep her? 

Understanding and protection is crucial. 

Ever encounter Narc. Run fucking away asap. 

[Raptorsin7]

@Zeroguy Well I think I am a narc and I can't run away from myself haha.

I'm not saying to keep her, I would never get in a relationship with someone with any thing close to a personality disorder. 

[Zeroguy]

You are not a Narc. Just need a lift off. 

Would not complain at all. Very nice pair. 

Kudos to her idea. Bring all cluster B together. All support. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Zeroguy

[RMQualtrough]

On 13/05/2021 at 2:08 AM, JessiChell said:

What are your thoughts on narcissistic people? 
Is it true they truly don’t care about others or have empathy? 
Would a narcissist ever be able to recognize they need to work on themselves and begin?

I’ve been doing a lot of research and watching Dr Ramani videos to better understand them for reference. 

No it is quite untrue. I am a Narcissist but am the opposite of manipulating and hurting people for personal gain. And evidently as you see I am aware of being this way.

It obv varies person to person.

I would be an unfit parent though.

[Nos7algiK]

I would say instead of focusing what a potential narc is or is not on an individual scale. Realize what that aspect of reality means in relation to your own relativity. Meaning, use the manifestation of consciousness you label "narcissistic" to be a projection/reflection of your own self and qualities of the self you do not wish invoke in you. If you dislike their arrogance, or see how their selfishness is perceived as a trap and leads to suffering. Then use that as an example as to why to be humble and selfless. Though, don't demonize their actions nor dehumanize them as you find these examples. Just remember the importance of your own relativity and the understanding that comes with that. But, it is what it is. They are what they are. You are what they are and there is no you/they nor any separation between the two.

[mivafofa]

On 5/20/2021 at 0:37 PM, RMQualtrough said:

No it is quite untrue. I am a Narcissist but am the opposite of manipulating and hurting people for personal gain. And evidently as you see I am aware of being this way.

It obv varies person to person.

I would be an unfit parent though.

That's an odd claim to put out there.. Because someone diagnosed with NPD would not acknowledge they have a personality disorder in the first place - that's a side effect of their symptoms. And in the scenario that they do acknowledge, they would lie and never admit they actually manipulate people.

In other words if you were actually a Narcissist, the rest of whatever you'd claim about yourself is basically bullshit, fueled by an inflated sense of false-self. But again, very unlikely that you are if you think that you are one - following me?

[DIDego]

On 5/19/2021 at 1:47 AM, Consept said:

I came across this channel and found it really interesting. Basically this chica is a diagnosed sociopath and narcissist and setup a YouTube channel to take away the stigma there is toward those with her condition. I must say I learnt a lot from her vids as normally when this topic is talked about it frames then as evil, which I understand the reasons for but it's good to her insight from someone who has it and is self aware 

 

 

I would consider when it comes to this girl, to take a serious look in the field of:

Dissociative Identity Disorder

 

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by DIDego

[Roy]

Paging @Khr! She knows a tremendous amount on this topic and can probably answer your questions.

[Adamq8]

I think that labeling narcsissm only to be empath less or so forth is a simplification of the term.

Narcisists have a harder time understanding feelings in general since it has been repressed for a long time and there is a big shadow imo in narcisissm, i also believe that todays culture is producing way more narcissism then cultures before.

Logic and reason is valued and the pursuit of materialistic things, intuition and emotions is taking a step back for most people and they relay heavily on logic/reason and " common manner" but it is not really a good thing for humans since we are emotional creatures and repressing feelings in the long run makes you cold and off from your true self i would say.

It should be some sort of balance between the two.