Narcissistic People

[JessiChell]

What are your thoughts on narcissistic people? 
Is it true they truly don’t care about others or have empathy? 
Would a narcissist ever be able to recognize they need to work on themselves and begin?

I’ve been doing a lot of research and watching Dr Ramani videos to better understand them for reference. 

[28 cm unbuffed]

@JessiChell

Not sure what science has to say about that, but for me personally, these are people that will NEVER admit, that they are wrong, when there is something that they do not want to let go of. They are unable to let go of some belief in regards to reality. They know better what it should be / is and they live in accordance to that false belief, getting more and more delusional.

[JessiChell]

@28 cm unbuffed I’m just so curious what this community has to say because clinical psychologists say they do not care about others and very few can have enough introspection to change at all. 
 

But from an ego standpoint, I thought we could all change etc. (?)

[28 cm unbuffed]

@JessiChell

You can change only if you are willing to change first. They're not.

[ilja]

 

[mandyjw]

Mistaking oneself for a thing or a concept that is actually separate can cause all kinds of varied outwardly manifesting disorders and forms of suffering. Narcissism is a very interesting one because it's such an obvious and direct example of what we all do. I think that narcissism is driven by suffering and anyone willing to sink into and at the same time overcome the misunderstandings at the root (I am a separate self, things and situations make me happy) has the potential to heal anything. I think we all intuitively know it. Sometimes the more clearly we feel that something about our belief system or about our idea of "us" is very wrong the more ridiculous our behavior becomes to try to keep it all together. 

[Nahm]

On 5/12/2021 at 9:08 PM, JessiChell said:

What are your thoughts on narcissistic people? 
Is it true they truly don’t care about others or have empathy? 
Would a narcissist ever be able to recognize they need to work on themselves and begin?

I’ve been doing a lot of research and watching Dr Ramani videos to better understand them for reference. 

Yes, but perhaps a key difference is found upon that recognition of the desire to be more in alignment, to feel better, thus to change behaviors and actions. Some, have a itty bitty pity party, release, and alignment is already underway. Yet others, will go to any length imaginable, and then full circle back to addressing the simplest of behaviors. Then, there is clarity, that there aren’t individuals which have or posses empathy, compassion, awareness, love, etc. (The true nature, or, truth).

@28 cm unbuffed

Spot on ime. They will never apologize, admit when they missed the mark, misinformed, hurt someone, misled someone, nor will they give credit to anyone else for ideas they ‘borrow’, nor do they have it in them to thank anyone for helping them. (Yet) That is a miserably hot stove, which again, is inevitably full circled back to, wether within the appearance or without. It makes the simplest effortless functions incredibly (seemingly) complex and arduous, praying on convincing another of the same, via comparative ‘measuring’ thinking, guilting tripping, motivation, etc. Best of both worlds imo, is the way to go. Takes letting go paradoxically, humility, vulnerability, free expression. 

Great songs about this revelation... “Figured you out”... & “You should’ve seen the other guy”... by fellow ox wrestlers. 

[IAmReallyImportant]

@Nahm What is with people who act humble, are thankful etc. just so they can see themselves as mature or developed and thus superior ? Could this also be a form of narcism? 

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

@Nahm What is with people who act humble, are thankful etc. just so they can see themselves as mature or developed and thus superior ? Could this also be a form of narcism? 

Some people are humbled, and thankful, and aren’t believing they can see themself. Therefore, some people aren’t experiencing comparative thoughts at all, in regard to other people. It seems there is everyone & anyone everywhere in between, and yet we are all ultimately in this together. Some people, especially in difficult times or transitions, project what is coming up and out within themselves, onto other people as well. Specifically people they experience who are already on the other side of the transition they are presently experiencing. 

As to why anyone would act in such a way, likely for what they believe acting as such will get them. The usual suspects, notoriety, as in fame, or money, praise, sex, etc. There’s an endless variety, yet no acting, incentive, or reward ever measures up to the nature of the truth behind the actor. 

[IAmReallyImportant]

10 minutes ago, Nahm said:

aren’t believing they can see themself

Can you give me an example of people believing seeing themselves? 

Edited May 15, 2021 by IAmReallyImportant

[Nahm]

@IAmReallyImportant

No I can not. It’s a belief. If someone said seeing unicorns is a belief, they wouldn’t be able to give an example of seeing unicorns. 

Btw, it is good to see such people’s strife & struggle through the lens of compassion & empathy, as often they are avoiding dealing with something most are not aware of or tasked in life to have to deal with. There are many examples, and it’s all in the eye of the beholder. It is also wise of course, to implement one’s own boundaries, without unnecessary judgment. 

[IAmReallyImportant]

@Nahm Thanks, this is a valuable advice!

For example, I think that I am capable of achieving great things. Now could that be seen as me seeing myself that way? So this is not humble and would be better to let it go?

But then I would feel that it is not "good" to believe in oneself and therefore I would think that I cannot manifest my desires so well.

What do you understand by "believe in yourself"?

Edited May 15, 2021 by IAmReallyImportant

[Nahm]

28 minutes ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

@Nahm Thanks, this is a valuable advice!

?? 

28 minutes ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

For example, I think that I am capable of achieving great things. Now could that be seen as me seeing myself that way? So this is not humble and would be better to let it go?

It’s the ol’ “both” are actually One situation. 

You are absolutely capable of achieving great things. By you, I mean the ineffable, the One which forgot itself by being this very experience. The One which arises as the flotsam & jetsam of conditioning and forgetting is released. There is obviously the discernible experience of imagining and visualizing and creating the future you desire to, but you are all of this and none of this, greater than this and within this, and never actually see, let alone see, yourself. All “experience” already is yourself. You see by not seeing. So to speak, to truly see, is to see there is no thing to be seen. By appearing as such that there is the experience of seeing. By appearing as the thoughts and perception, or ‘seer’ & ‘seen’ experience. Rather I should say I do or do not.  If I visualize, and I visualize ‘myself’ in a visualization, I can then believe that is me in the thought or visualization, but I am always the awareness of, never actually thinking, visualizing, doing anything, or even moving. Just appearing as.  I appear to myself as everything else, to make it seem as if I am doing. Awareness of ‘this’ is perfectly humbling. ? Nothing is won, nothing is lost. Nothing can be taken, nothing can be defended. There is such an experience of believing thoughts, and therefore believing I am in thoughts, or could think myself. That is what is humbled. I am no more a person than a bird a thought or a soup can at the bottom of the ocean. Just a never ending silence, or peace, having fun by not having fun, is really the funniest & funnest possible scenario. 

TLDR, don’t blame ya. It boils down to feeling discord & alignment. We each have a choice it seems, to say this & that about the other, to ‘see’ parts or wholeness without and within, to be reaction like animal, or to take pause and address discord to align, and proceed consciously creating, in deep appreciation of the profundity of creation, or, you. It’s ‘what’s happening’, apparently.  

28 minutes ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

But then I would feel that it is not "good" to believe in oneself and therefore I would think that I cannot manifest my desires so well.

If it is good, for you in your direct experience, via feeling, to believe in yourself... then there is no remaining question in thought, as to if it is good. Good is good. If it is suffrage, or even slightly unpleasant to believe in yourself, feeling is already ‘telling you’ that belief has nothing to do with you. 

To think about it more imo would be in error. A single thought and feeling of what you want, and then letting it go from mind so that ineffable may be it, is worth as much as the entire universe. They are truly, literally, one in the same. You might say the manifestation of the universe, and manifesting this & that in your living. The latter is an echo of the prior, yet there is no sear Atari on, as it is essentially vibrational and spiral. Bigger to smaller spirals.  The Milky Way and a water tornado I create by moving my finger (so to speak) in a puddle of mud. Same. 

28 minutes ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

What do you understand by "believe in yourself"?

Any experiential thought, belief, visualization, imagining, hope, dream, etc, which feels good, feels good because it is indicative of who you really are, of the true nature or truth. We could think of it as de-veiling, or illumination. One is already & always feeling the true nature of oneself. One never left, never even moved. 

[IAmReallyImportant]

42 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Any experiential thought, belief, visualization, imagining, hope, dream, etc, which feels good, feels good because it is indicative of who you really are, of the true nature or truth. We could think of it as de-veiling, or illumination. One is already & always feeling the true nature of oneself. One never left, never even moved. 

If the true nature would be everything, why don't I feel good on any thought then? So the true nature is just a part of oneself?

I often times feel good with thoughts other people would call unrealistic. So it is just about the feeling? But then there is no reason at all to live if you have no control, cannot really create what you want..

Edited May 15, 2021 by IAmReallyImportant

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

If the true nature would be everything, why don't I feel good on any thought then? So the true nature is just a part of oneself?

Infinite can not know finite. Infinite is the true nature. For One (infinity) to experience, One must appear to itself to be two, and one forgets it’s own oneness by ‘doing’ (being) so. It’s unthinkably brilliant, and the only possibility which allows for experience, or, creation. The apparent twoness of thought is a facade, illusory, the actuality is oneness appearing. This is why thought detachment leads to enlightenment and thinking more does not. More thinking, concepts, conceptualization and reconceptualization is creation, all illusory, and is great and serves creation, which is an appearance. 

1 hour ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

I often times feel good with thoughts other people would call unrealistic.

In direct experience this is not exactly accurate. No one experiences your thoughts. And if & when they do, they’ll quickly realize it wasn’t all it was cracked up to be, and they’ll ‘turn it off’. Short of this rare exception, thoughts are private. 

1 hour ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

So it is just about the feeling?

Yes it is. Enlightenment and life has always been that simple and straight forward and it will always be. Thread wise, consider, a ‘narcissist’ is actually suffering greatly and doing everything possible not to, but it could be said they are just taking the very hard path. 

1 hour ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

But then there is no reason at all to live if you have no control, cannot really create what you want..

Thought detachment, or transcending the finite mind, is not believing thoughts. That, can’t be thunk. Which is why folks meditate, do yoga, go on retreats, employ practices, eat clean, speak clean, think clean, let stuff go swiftly, etc. Looking for reason to live in thought is like looking in the garbage at Disneyland and not even recognizing you are already in Disneyland. “Reasons” is just more illusory thinking. “Control” is more illusory thinking. Let such discordant thoughts go. They never add up to anything. No one needs a reason to do, be, have, create & experience what they want, though it could be said they ‘need’ the empowerment to do so. Empowerment is indicative of the true nature, which again is uncovered by releasing conditioning.  Releasing conditioning is effortless. Resisting feeling takes effort. 

Something to consider... a bigger picture frame up of sorts...

A person experiencing negative psychology will first spite & resent someone experiencing positive psychology. They usually employ deflection & projection, and name call or insinuate with labels like ‘goody two shoes’, or ‘lucky’, and they’ll attribute what they aren’t yet willing to recognize within their own behaviors, actions & choices, as what is outside of human choice, like genetics, talent, charisma, and other ‘God given attributes’. 

A person experiencing positive psychology will first spite & resent ‘someone’ ‘experiencing’ no mind. They will usually be more manipulative and subtle about their deflection & projection, attacking their character, discrediting, etc, and projecting their own unresolved motives and impulsive behavior onto them. They don’t believe as much in luck, because they’ve experienced changing their own psychology from negative to positive, but they are still ‘lost’ thought, or, “psychology” (which is a thought). None of this negative or positive psychology will carry over into no mind, only true mental and emotional equanimity will do here, and that requires addressing the reaction and impulse of the apparent body / person / animal. 

‘Someone’ ‘experiencing’ no mind will no longer spite or resent anyone, because they addresses the reaction and impulse of the animalistic side of the situation, and now see those are illusory thoughts which are in discord, and they’re well aware of this, and they desire to embody more of the true nature, as no mind equals more feeling presence which of course feels wonderful. Most hang their hat here, in accordance with how personality has or hasn’t served them, and do or don’t relinquish remaining vestiges of personality and or animalistic influence (attachment to reaction, impulse, lux, sex drive, relationships, habit, etc), which tends to dictate an absence of the humility required to recognize that in creation one plus one, and all which arises of it, is great than one. 

Just perspectives for consideration. 

[Tech36363]

@JessiChell they truly only care about narcissistic supply. Their world is black and white. Either you do everything they say in which case they will emotionally abuse you and either you don't in which as well they will abuse you. 

Whenever you recognize a narcissist do one thing, turn around and run! 

[Zeroguy]

No contact. 

Stone face when are you with 'em. 

Easy game easy life don't beleive this spiritual shit. Uncoditional and blah blah. Your life at stake. 

[Tech36363]

@JessiChell also they have no ability to self reflect. Even for an average person it takes a lot to self reflect, there is no chance a narc would. 

As long as supply is available everything is good. When it is not they will ruin everything. 

I used grey rock method to be left alone from my narc. You should too use it 

[Zeroguy]

When you leave 

12 minutes ago, Tech36363 said:

@JessiChell also they have no ability to self reflect. Even for an average person it takes a lot to self reflect, there is no chance a narc would. 

Big narc Zero.Gotta love people on forum. 

12 minutes ago, Tech36363 said:

As long as supply is available everything is good. When it is not they will ruin everything. 

True and by all means they will try to lure you back in. Don't fall. Expect hoovering when you leave.Don't show emotions that's the key. 

12 minutes ago, Tech36363 said:

I used grey rock method to be left alone from my narc. You should too use it 

Yeah me too. When they call me I put phone down. Always toxic shit nothing good. 

[Zeroguy]

Being happy joyful having smile on your face etc is still Narc supply maybe even worse one. So spirituality on the side. Cluster B is just step bellow cluster A.