How Are You?

[Xpansion]

When people ask me "how are you?"   I don't feel like they genuinely care how I actually am.  They expect me to say "I'm great" or something to that effect.  But what I really feel like saying is "I am absolutely feeling like crap and really struggling with life right now. I survived abusive parents and drug addiction but I feel very stuck and not happy most of the time. I am going through a separation from a 17 year relationship and my confidence and self esteem is at an all time low and I feel very hopeless and helpless a lot."    People don't want to hear this. They label it as negative. They only want to hear positive things that dont require a challenging response or evoke their own uncomfortable feelings. They also don't know how to be around it. How to actually really be there for a person and listen without fixing, rescuing etc  The result is people walk around with a mask on feeling unable to express their authentic emotions and thoughts for fear of rejection.   Perhaps this is just my experience and other people feel they do have genuine friends who they can express the different aspects of themselves around, through the up and the down times. I don't feel like I have this at all. People just want me to be "great thanks".   It's bullshit.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Xpansion

[Frogfucius]

We are conditioned, as conforming social creatures, to respond to greetings in the same robotic way. It's  involuntary. I call it robotic, but I believe it has a social function. It's to discern who's sociable, and who's a friend or a foe. If someone doesn't respond - best not to further engage them, they're untrustworthy or don't speak my language. If someone does respond in a typical expected response - okay, they're "normal" and friendly. If someone responds with something like "The sky is green." - they seem a little crazy, and untrustworthy.

Don't take it personally. It's just a form of social screening. It's natural, just as a smile or a frown, or a bow, or whatever customs are normal for your culture. You're right, people don't actually care about your personal life, just as you don't care about theirs.

[aurum]

I'll be honest man, I'm not with you on this one.

You have to understand social nuance and context. You're right, a random stranger has no interest in your problems.

And why should they? And more importantly, why would you want to dump your problems on them?

Since you posted this in the "social" part of the forum, I'm going to answer this in terms of social skills. Being good socially means you're looking to give people positive emotions.

Not all the time, obviously. But generally speaking at least.

When I go out with my friends, I'm not thinking just "how can I have a good time". Sometimes I definitely do. But often times I'm thinking, "how can I make THEM have a good time".

You don't think I have problems? I got problems out the ass man. Don't make the mistake of thinking you're special in this situation. Everyone has their shit.

So why am I doing this?

Being social is a way for people to get away from all that for awhile and just enjoy being in the moment. No one wants to hear about more problems, they have enough of that already.

Of course, there is also a time and place to dump problems. I do that all the time as well. But it's a very different context. These are good friends who I would gladly sit and listen to their problems as well.

What's funny though is that as you shift your focus towards making other people feel good, it makes YOU feel good. You give, and you'll receive. That's the law of the universe.

But you just want to receive. "How come no one cares about MY problems. Because MY problems are so important, I'm going to bring you all down with me!"

You think that's going to make you happy, if people would just listen to your problems. But it won't.

It's just not how it works man, I don't know what else to say. If you find another way, left me know. You give to get.

[philosogi]

@Xpansion there's a lack of empathy in north american society and it's sick. Sick. Huge emphasis on "every man for himself." I believe this is basically a by-product of capitalism, where the rhetoric comes from the ones with all the resources (in this case emotional, but applies also to material) who don't want to share. People who are willing to listen without feeling uncomfortable and squirmy about your situation are rare!!! I think they are secretly miserable but won't admit it to themselves. There's also a relentless tendency to put a brave face on everything. 

[The]

@expansion it's just courtesy.. 

@philosogi he lives in Australia you're in Canada why we gotta bash North America? 

Edited November 2, 2016 by Vegeta

[Xpansion]

6 hours ago, aurum said:

I'll be honest man, I'm not with you on this one.

You have to understand social nuance and context. You're right, a random stranger has no interest in your problems.

And why should they? And more importantly, why would you want to dump your problems on them?

Since you posted this in the "social" part of the forum, I'm going to answer this in terms of social skills. Being good socially means you're looking to give people positive emotions.

Not all the time, obviously. But generally speaking at least.

When I go out with my friends, I'm not thinking just "how can I have a good time". Sometimes I definitely do. But often times I'm thinking, "how can I make THEM have a good time".

You don't think I have problems? I got problems out the ass man. Don't make the mistake of thinking you're special in this situation. Everyone has their shit.

So why am I doing this?

Being social is a way for people to get away from all that for awhile and just enjoy being in the moment. No one wants to hear about more problems, they have enough of that already.

Of course, there is also a time and place to dump problems. I do that all the time as well. But it's a very different context. These are good friends who I would gladly sit and listen to their problems as well.

What's funny though is that as you shift your focus towards making other people feel good, it makes YOU feel good. You give, and you'll receive. That's the law of the universe.

But you just want to receive. "How come no one cares about MY problems. Because MY problems are so important, I'm going to bring you all down with me!"

You think that's going to make you happy, if people would just listen to your problems. But it won't.

It's just not how it works man, I don't know what else to say. If you find another way, left me know. You give to get.

Maybe I wasnt clear enough or perhaps you have just totally misunderstood but I'm not talking about random strangers. I'm well aware and have enough life experience to know that you don't just open up about your personal problems to complete strangers. You have interpreted what I have said as me thinking my problems are special or more important but it's just not the case at all. Nice try though.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Xpansion

[Xpansion]

4 hours ago, philosogi said:

@Xpansion there's a lack of empathy in north american society and it's sick. Sick. Huge emphasis on "every man for himself." I believe this is basically a by-product of capitalism, where the rhetoric comes from the ones with all the resources (in this case emotional, but applies also to material) who don't want to share. People who are willing to listen without feeling uncomfortable and squirmy about your situation are rare!!! I think they are secretly miserable but won't admit it to themselves. There's also a relentless tendency to put a brave face on everything. 

I agree and it's the same here in Australia. Australia is just a mini America in many ways. Don't ask me why we have gone down that road because it's always felt like a massive mistake to me and everyone I know but our government and media have relentlessly pursued that avenue. Probably because we have been allies for so long and also because we are such a young country with no real identity so we just take on the identity of others. Pity we didn't follow in the footsteps of more progressive non relgious countries who aren't all shooting each other. 

Leaving that aside I totally get what you are saying about putting on a brave face. Vulnerability is seen as weakness particularly in men who are still taught not cry.

[philosogi]

@Vegeta it's not bashing. Acceptance that our society is ill is the first step to making it better. Peace. 

[philosogi]

10 hours ago, Xpansion said:

we are such a young country with no real identity so we just take on the identity of others.

I see north america as having this issue too. I think our culture is like a teenager and needs to break away (war of independence) and then make all sorts of its own mistakes before realizing that the things parents (old world) were doing had a root of truth. 

 

10 hours ago, Xpansion said:

Leaving that aside I totally get what you are saying about putting on a brave face. Vulnerability is seen as weakness particularly in men who are still taught not cry.

This is so so damaging to everyone. 

[The]

@philosogi whatever.. How's the empathy in Canada? 

[aurum]

13 hours ago, Xpansion said:

Maybe I wasnt clear enough or perhaps you have just totally misunderstood but I'm not talking about random strangers. I'm well aware and have enough life experience to know that you don't just open up about your personal problems to complete strangers. You have interpreted what I have said as me thinking my problems are special or more important but it's just not the case at all. Nice try though.

Dude, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Whether or not I misinterpreted your question (I didn't), I still took time out of my day for no reason but to HELP you.

Why would you not at least be appreciative?

I'm not saying you need to get on your hands and knees and thank me, but why would you want to be negative? Why would you want me to feel a WORSE emotion?

If you don't have friends that you feel you can express your problems to, it's NOT because people are assholes that lack empathy. There are INCREDBILE people out there in this world, people who would bleed for you, let alone listen to your "problems".

But you're probably not finding them because you're negative! And they don't want to be around you because positive people want to be around other positive people.

And so this just keeps reinforcing your world view that you can't find friends to express yourself to.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy man. You're doing this to yourself and you don't even realize it.

[Xpansion]

6 hours ago, aurum said:

Dude, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Whether or not I misinterpreted your question (I didn't), I still took time out of my day for no reason but to HELP you.

Why would you not at least be appreciative?

I'm not saying you need to get on your hands and knees and thank me, but why would you want to be negative? Why would you want me to feel a WORSE emotion?

If you don't have friends that you feel you can express your problems to, it's NOT because people are assholes that lack empathy. There are INCREDBILE people out there in this world, people who would bleed for you, let alone listen to your "problems".

But you're probably not finding them because you're negative! And they don't want to be around you because positive people want to be around other positive people.

And so this just keeps reinforcing your world view that you can't find friends to express yourself to.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy man. You're doing this to yourself and you don't even realize it.

I don't recognise or enjoy any good qualities in your view so why would I be appreciative.  In fact your view is the perfect example of what Im talking about i.e. you're labelling and judging me as negative because I choose to express my authentic thoughts and feelings rather than mask them over with socially acceptable niceties.   You're projecting. Refer to Leos video "dude"

Edited November 3, 2016 by Xpansion

[aurum]

19 hours ago, Xpansion said:

I don't recognise or enjoy any good qualities in your view so why would I be appreciative

Never said that.

19 hours ago, Xpansion said:

 In fact your view is the perfect example of what Im talking about i.e. you're labelling and judging me as negative because I choose to express my authentic thoughts and feelings rather than mask them over with socially acceptable niceties.

I'm not judging you, I'm trying to help you.

In personal development, I've learned that not all emotions are created equal. There are certain behaviors and thoughts you don't engage with if you want to grow. I'm assuming you want to grow.

What makes your feelings authentic? Because you're feeling them? Because you had a thought? Why are either of those things true?

The truth is there's thoughts and emotions...and then there's your interpretation of these things.

Low vibration, negative emotions aren't "authentic". That's ego creating suffering where there is none.

I'm not asking you to repress or mask over anything. I'm saying see these things as they are.

Some biological sensations in your chest? Some monkey mind chatter? Are you any of these things?

No you're not. It's when you realize this that positivity and feeling good is a natural byproduct because you're not longer identified with these things. And over time, they tend to fall away to a certain degree.
 

They never were true to begin with.

Have you noticed that people who are highly evolved and successful tend to be happy? That's because they've learned this. They've learned they have control over how they want to live and interpret life.

People who are stuck in negativity, that's what they call in personal development "coping, not thriving". They're just trying to get through your struggles and not feel bad, as apposed to THRIVING where you feel so good that you automatically want others to feel good.

Happiness in this sense if actually something you need to fight for. Because although mediation can teach you that you don't need anything to be happy, you're not really capable of realizing that right now. You fight to the point where you can let it go.

 

Edited November 4, 2016 by aurum

[Xpansion]

4 hours ago, aurum said:

Never said that.

I'm not judging you, I'm trying to help you.

In personal development, I've learned that not all emotions are created equal. There are certain behaviors and thoughts you don't engage with if you want to grow. I'm assuming you want to grow.

What makes your feelings authentic? Because you're feeling them? Because you had a thought? Why are either of those things true?

The truth is there's thoughts and emotions...and then there's your interpretation of these things.

Low vibration, negative emotions aren't "authentic". That's ego creating suffering where there is none.

I'm not asking you to repress or mask over anything. I'm saying see these things as they are.

Some biological sensations in your chest? Some monkey mind chatter? Are you any of these things?

No you're not. It's when you realize this that positivity and feeling good is a natural byproduct because you're not longer identified with these things. And over time, they tend to fall away to a certain degree.
 

They never were true to begin with.

Have you noticed that people who are highly evolved and successful tend to be happy? That's because they've learned this. They've learned they have control over how they want to live and interpret life.

People who are stuck in negativity, that's what they call in personal development "coping, not thriving". They're just trying to get through your struggles and not feel bad, as apposed to THRIVING where you feel so good that you automatically want others to feel good.

Happiness in this sense if actually something you need to fight for. Because although mediation can teach you that you don't need anything to be happy, you're not really capable of realizing that right now. You fight to the point where you can let it go.

 

Er yeah you did say that. You asked me why I am not appreciative and I told you why. You might think you're teaching me but I don't subscribe to your view.  If my mum died, my partner left and my dogs dying I'm not going to pretend that it doesn't hurt and that the pain is not real. I'm human, I feel pain and I accept that I feel pain. You're correct that the pain is not who I am however it's there and I don't deny it but I turn toward it and face it and try not to add to it or exacerbate it ie suffering on suffering. I don't pretend that I'm happy and if people can't deal with it and label me as negative such as you have well I don't need those sorts of people in my life.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Xpansion

[philosogi]

@Vegeta not very advanced.

[The]

? 

Edited November 5, 2016 by Vegeta

[Orange]

On 04/11/2016 at 4:23 PM, aurum said:

Never said that.

I'm not judging you, I'm trying to help you.

In personal development, I've learned that not all emotions are created equal. There are certain behaviors and thoughts you don't engage with if you want to grow. I'm assuming you want to grow.

What makes your feelings authentic? Because you're feeling them? Because you had a thought? Why are either of those things true?

The truth is there's thoughts and emotions...and then there's your interpretation of these things.

Low vibration, negative emotions aren't "authentic". That's ego creating suffering where there is none.

I'm not asking you to repress or mask over anything. I'm saying see these things as they are.

Some biological sensations in your chest? Some monkey mind chatter? Are you any of these things?

No you're not. It's when you realize this that positivity and feeling good is a natural byproduct because you're not longer identified with these things. And over time, they tend to fall away to a certain degree.
 

They never were true to begin with.

Have you noticed that people who are highly evolved and successful tend to be happy? That's because they've learned this. They've learned they have control over how they want to live and interpret life.

People who are stuck in negativity, that's what they call in personal development "coping, not thriving". They're just trying to get through your struggles and not feel bad, as apposed to THRIVING where you feel so good that you automatically want others to feel good.

Happiness in this sense if actually something you need to fight for. Because although mediation can teach you that you don't need anything to be happy, you're not really capable of realizing that right now. You fight to the point where you can let it go.

 

Hey this is interesting. but if you are not your negative emotions or thoughts,  your aren't going to be the positive ones either, they will not be authentic either. so wouldn't it make more sense to say that after all the peeling off, you are left with a neutral state rather than a happy one?

[aurum]

17 minutes ago, Orange said:

Hey this is interesting. but if you are not your negative emotions or thoughts,  your aren't going to be the positive ones either, they will not be authentic either. so wouldn't it make more sense to say that after all the peeling off, you are left with a neutral state rather than a happy one?

It depends on your definition of happiness. I'm not defining happiness as "excitement", like when you lost your virginity.

I'm talking more about like a calm, present, peaceful state of being fulfilled instead of needing anything to be different.

But yes, your positive emotions aren't "you" either. They're something going on in experience, and I'd much prefer them to negative emotions, but the truth is you can get attached to positivity as well and create suffering for yourself.

Think about doing drugs. People get ATTACHED to the good feelings that come from the drugs. They can't handle when it goes away. They're still heavily identified with their experience.

People who say they love life...great. I love life too. But actually, if you're so attached to "living", you won't be able love life because you're constantly afraid of death. Thus, you go through life actually suffering because of your attachment to it.

When you drop those attachments to the either positive or negative, that's when presence and fulfillment comes in.

 

[The]

? 

Edited November 5, 2016 by Vegeta