Nuanced pickup questions megathread

[Striving for more]

@Leo Gura I remember once you said how "bragging & boasting you'd think this works but it shows low value .... "I always tell a girl that I work at wall mart & live in a card board box & tell her how small my penis is ... " "Because it shows i'm not trying to impress her, this makes her attracted" ect...

• Does this only work if you're actually high value ? > can i leverage this even if my life isn't great & I'm actually quite insecure & neurotic inside, can this still work
• Because It's easier for you to do it as a successful guy with purpose & other things going for you, I feel like if I use self deprecation it will come off as too honest, Or like counterintuively it only works if you're already a high value guy

 

• ALso Is this enough to actually make a girl attracted? 
• E.g > Yesterday I spoke to a cute staff in this shop, but I wasn't really actively intentionally flirting because I actually wanted to buy something, but I did lots of eye contact & I sort of made fun of myself saying but in a less obvious way saying "I'm a wannabe superhero guy" basically, & I noticed she sorted of laughed & smiled, I wonder if this is connected to what you were saying. 

 

• But I'm confused as to wheter she'd be attracted because on the one hand I was making her laugh a lot & good eye contact but also being kinda needy I think, (Because I am) by talking too much to her for too long & probably sharing too much about myself, although maybe this isn't needy maybe it was natural I'm not sure. 

 

• So could the making her laugh + making fun of myself outweigh the needy behaviours I exuded? As in can your positive characterists be enough to attract a girl in spite of something like being a bit neeedy?

 

• Does anyone have any tips on how to be less needy when YOU HAVE NO OPTIONS. 
• Because it's easy to say "just get more options bro you'll stop being needy" > but Until I succeed in attracting women then I won't have any options so I need to learn how to not naturally exude neediness in spite of that > 

 

• ** My point is my charisma & humour is good but I struglle with detachment & non neediness, perhaps these cancle each other out like positive & negative ions or perhaps if the charisma is strong enough it can overide the weaknesses

^^ (The theory on knowing neediness is unnatractive is much much easier than actually not being needy, because in the moment I'm just fucking in love with this shop girl as I look at her nice eyes

I also can't stop thinking about her days later, even though I have better priotritees & do actually have personal goals & stuff.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Striving for more

[JonasVE12]

This is exactly what happens if someone is cut off from their authentic truth. You find a girl attractive but because you have supressed many of your desires/wants, you feel ashamed if you want to express your emotions to her energetically so you escape to your mind, overanalysing the situation. You try to attract her using your mind, using all these pick up theory induced techniques about manipulation & game. 

Are you not connected to your feeling at all? Are you all up your head that attracting women seems like an unsolveable mathematical puzzle?

It is what happens if you do not own yourself on an energetic level. The mind is used as an escape from feeling. from expressing your intention & authenticity through emotions.

Can you connect to your heart at all? In her presence, can you connect to her heart? Be open & vulnarable? 

Self-deprecation is about being, not doing. It should not be used as a means to attract her. That's not honest authentic connection. That's manipulation and not being true to who you are. 

Connect to your body, release your shame, feel your heart & turn on, look in her eyes and say nothing more. Enjoy her presence & appearance when you look at her & disconnect from all thoughts & analysing all together. Just be in that space with her while connected to your own heart & turn on. The pelvis. Let your actions flow from this connection & all questions will be answered. 

Make it about her & you, instead of what you want from her. She is not your parent that needs to validate your unmet needs. Appreciate her for who she is as an individual & connect to her from that openness. Attraction is natural and inevitable in this connected space of her & you.

Edited May 12, 2021 by JonasVE12

[Striving for more]

@JonasVE12 So are you suggesting manipulation, logic ect... aren't effective ? 

I don't care whether I use spiritual being or manipulation, as long as it works it works, if she's attracted that's what matters. 

I have no issues with manipulating women, whatever works works. 

Is studying videos like this pointless then?

I don't want to limit my social & seduction skills to merely spiritual stuff like presence, unless "that's all you need", if that is truly all that you need then great! It's not like I want to have to study social skills & techniques but lets be real, life never just hands you success without effort so I assume that you need both.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Striving for more

[JonasVE12]

@Striving for more Does any animal use logic & manipulation to attract and mate? Or only we humans? Only we have that unique problem. You are looking in the wrong direction. You need emotional releasing & emotional embodiment to attract women. Not logic & techniques. Of course in the end, you can study social skills and conversation techniques, but it is only beneficial when you are already embodied emotionally. Then those techniques can function as an add-on. 

You are coming from the paradigm of learning these things is to bypass the need for emotional vulnarability & embodiment. So you can avoid the pain and shame that is inside of you. You can't show your intentions and turn-on directly through emotional connection because you are blocked. Therefore you need to release & connect to your feeling first. Your study of these techniques is a distraction that is the same for a heroin addict that does not want to face his own pain & emotions and distracts himself with heroin.

Do you remember the workshop that I suggested in another thread? Do that. Do it for yourself. You will connect to parts of yourself that you didn't even know existed.

[Striving for more]

2 hours ago, JonasVE12 said:

@Striving for more

Do you remember the workshop that I suggested in another thread? Do that. Do it for yourself. You will connect to parts of yourself that you didn't even know existed.

I would love to but I'm not rich enough to be throwing 4K into a weekend. : (

 

[28 cm unbuffed]

@Striving for more

If you want to release emotions stored in your body, you can check Elliot Hulse's video about bioenergetics, it's on YouTube

[28 cm unbuffed]

@JonasVE12 

Is there any suggestion you can give about pickup in general? I mean cold approach. Not sure if that's correct view on that, but it doesn't seem natural for me, it's forced and feels like desparation. But I'm not sure, maybe that's just my excuse.

I have no idea how to get enough courage to approach a girl on a street, that's like undoable for me. Is there anything I can do on my own to get balls to do that, or that's not the way to go?

Thank you

[JonasVE12]

@28 cm unbuffed Definitely. The thing is, when you are numbed out emotionally and are closed off from feeling, this will never be organic and free flowing in the beginning. You have to walk a certain path where you gradually release your blockages and get more connected to your body, become grounded and free flowing.

When you get to that point, you'll feel one with everyone around you. Like one giant bubble or playground where you can act out your inspiration & create your reality like you want it instead of feeling like you're an isolated bubble and everyone else is an enemy. The self protective mechanism needs to be let go & surrendered. The attention needs to shift to free outward expression instead of internal protection. In this space, social freedom & attraction are inevitable and the amount of social opportunities that come to you are endless. 

The first practice one should do if they are scared to approach women is to become grounded in other social situations first. The relationship between groundedness & tension is the most important relationship that anyone who is learning to get better with women could observe.

Every social situation evokes some degree of tension. If you can't handle tension, you tend to look away & become ungrounded. When you become ungrounded, your energy tends to be in your head and you feel tense. A sense of shame & fear comes up in your body and stiffles you.

What you wanna do if you don't dare to approach women yet, try to say 'hello' to 100 people everyday for a week. Get used to being seen. Practice letting go of nervous energy when you do it & ground yourself in your body. Connect to your heart while you do it. Relax your pelvis & whole body. Feel your turn on and excitement after a while when you loosen up. Become excited to say hello. Begin feeling expansive. Gradually grow % by %. Stuck energy & emotions start to release and make place for courage, love and acceptance. Say hello with your heart and notice how people react. Welcome the people looking away. Welcome the people saying hello back to you. Welcome everyone. As you become more open & connected, people will generally smile back and say hello back to you. When people ignore you, smile in yourself and love them. This will translate to rejections with women. It is very important to notice the energy in your body & feel into it, relax into it and let any stuck energy go in this proces. When you let go, you can open your heart & allow more courage to flow into your being. Then you can allow to feel your turn on and excitement in your pelvis and express your 'hello' from connection with this region of your body. This connection with your pelvis is what you want to have when you talk to a woman and flirt with her. You want to feel your turn on to her and show her that you are turned on for her. She will feel it energetically. 

Next to do is to notice levels of tension in all kinds of different social situations. What social situations evoke too much tension that unground you? What social situations do you avoid? Go walk around the city and imagine you doing all kinds of social exercises. Notice what level of tension do they evoke. Use a tension journal and give them a number. 1 is easy. 10 is overwhelming. Practice for 2 weeks doing exercises that evoke 1-5. Gradually build up after that until they feel natural and effortless. 

Don't even bother talking to women when you haven't done this proces. Things that evoke too much tension will overwhelm you and only cause more negativity. Don't state-pump like they teach in pick-up. The correct proces is emotional embodiment & integration and not state pumping. In the end, you want to become a natural and not a state pumper. 

If you done that proces. Feel free to confront higher levels of tension. Look beautiful women into the eye, deeply, when they pass by. Smile and say hello. Be grounded in that proces & relax the body. Do it from your heart & pelvis. Feel your turn on. 

Then ask the time from that same space, ask for directions, just say 'how are you doing'? It's not about getting results inmediately. It's about getting used to exchanging energy with them while being grounded & embodied. Being in your masculine core. Practice simple conversation with them. 

If you done this proces, there will be good levels of groundedness & connection to your body. Also there will be higher levels of courage that will make it very likely that you will approach women without thinking. Intent & purposeful energy are also very likely to be there when you are this far in the proces. It's like you will attract and approach woman naturally on instincts because you have integrated all these things along the way.

[28 cm unbuffed]

@JonasVE12

I reached flow state some time ago and I think when I'll let go of control (which is basically my state all the time now) the opportunities will arise on their own and process will unfold naturally. Is my logic correct here?

[Leo Gura]

13 hours ago, Striving for more said:

@Leo Gura

• Does this only work if you're actually high value ? > can i leverage this even if my life isn't great & I'm actually quite insecure & neurotic inside, can this still work

It can work but you have to be funny and confident about it. If you're just saying things in a needy and meek way to get her to like you, that will not work.

The rule is: say things which YOU think are funny. Don't say things to impress her. Amuse yourself when you are with her.

Quote

• Because It's easier for you to do it as a successful guy with purpose & other things going for you, I feel like if I use self deprecation it will come off as too honest, Or like counterintuively it only works if you're already a high value guy

A high value guy is not about how much money you have, it's how strong your personality is. If you are humorous and non-needy, you become a high value guy.

Obviously if you work at Starbucks you should not be making jokes about working at Wall Mart. Find other jokes.

Quote

• ALso Is this enough to actually make a girl attracted? 

You are not thinking deeply enough about attraction. You think some funny line will make her attracted. That's a mistake. That's not how it works. Attraction is a holistic feeling she gets by being exposed to a strong personality.

There is no magic line or joke that will make her attracted.

You can get attraction with some girls within 3 seconds just by how you look at her, without saying a word.

Attraction is more about your vibe than what you say. The words you say matter little. What matter is how you behave and carry yourself around her.

Quote

• E.g > Yesterday I spoke to a cute staff in this shop, but I wasn't really actively intentionally flirting because I actually wanted to buy something, but I did lots of eye contact & I sort of made fun of myself saying but in a less obvious way saying "I'm a wannabe superhero guy" basically, & I noticed she sorted of laughed & smiled, I wonder if this is connected to what you were saying. 

If you can make her laugh, that's always a good thing. But also, do it in a way where you seem strong and powerful, rather than weak. She shouldn't be feeling sorry for you but respect you as a genuine man.

Quote

 

• But I'm confused as to wheter she'd be attracted because on the one hand I was making her laugh a lot & good eye contact but also being kinda needy I think, (Because I am) by talking too much to her for too long & probably sharing too much about myself, although maybe this isn't needy maybe it was natural I'm not sure. 

Well, you need to cut out all signs of neediness while keeping the humor.

Quote

 

• So could the making her laugh + making fun of myself outweigh the needy behaviours I exuded? As in can your positive characterists be enough to attract a girl in spite of something like being a bit neeedy?

You don't need to be perfect for a girl to get attracted or even sleep with you. It's just that the better you are the higher you percentages will be. Girls will give you some leeway. They don't require perfection from you, so relax.

Quote

 

• Does anyone have any tips on how to be less needy when YOU HAVE NO OPTIONS. 

Fake it till you make it. Don't grovel before girls. Act like you are the prize, not her.

Act cocky.

For example, a cocky line I love to use is, "Hey, has anyone ever told you how beautiful [pause] I am?"

Quote

• Because it's easy to say "just get more options bro you'll stop being needy" > but Until I succeed in attracting women then I won't have any options so I need to learn how to not naturally exude neediness in spite of that > 

Of course you will be needy until you start getting lots of success. In the meantime just try to contain the worse manifestation of your neediness. It's okay to be needy on the inside for now. Just don't show it to her. Don't act desperate.

Quote

I also can't stop thinking about her days later, even though I have better priotritees & do actually have personal goals & stuff.

You can think about her, but don't call or text her too much. Hold yourself back. Less is more.

Work on suppressing all outer signs of your neediness. Inner neediness can only be cured by getting some results. But the girl does not know about your inner neediness, all she knows is what you express outwardly. So just hold your shit in.

[Eternity]

I only have one more thing to add which is how I managed to overcome my crippling shyness that followed me clear into my mid twenties.  I could manage to talk to gfs, but just anyone randomly scared the crap out of me, especially when it was a guy I was attracted to.  I was completely unable to converse or try to even show my interest.  I froze.  It's not a set of rules really or some system.  It's just an idea that dawned on me one day, maybe from a book.  I don't know.  But it hit me that everyone is insecure.  Yes, even those girls you think you have no chance with.  We are all insecure, maybe extreme extroverts aren't , but I was on the opposite end of the range.  When the idea went off in my head, I realized that at every event I went to (mostly because a gf wanted to go, I never volunteered) there were others there who were probably as uncomfortable as I was.  And I decided that I could be helpful by making them feel comfortable.  So at parties (my worst nightmares) for example I would look around for another person or two who looked as uncomfortable as I felt and I'd go over and say something friendly and look them in the eye while doing it. Now I didn't start off with doing this to any male at first.  I was scared senseless of doing that.  But that would come later after I got used to just striking up a little chit chat with people I barely knew or didn't know at all.  Practice this with guys if you feel comfortable doing that.  I assume of course you won't be talking to them exactly like you'd talk to a woman.  But it's good practice.  Then you start from there and gradually move on to looking for less attractive women you can make feel comfortable.  The less attractive the woman and more miserable the better.  You won't feel as pressured by approaching them so that's good practice, talk with a few everywhere you go.  These will help you build your skills as you move up the scale and try talking to more and more attractive women.  As you start off, just get within speaking distance, say " 24" or so apart and look at them in the eyes smile (while you remember they are probably shaking in their boots) and say something inane, like "how ya like the party (or concert or performance or game) so far?"  Now you've opened the conversation.  Conversation is like a tennis game.  You lob the ball at her and when she hits it back, you lob the ball her way again.  If she isn't lobbing very well, just have a mental list of topics you can bring up, like "what do you think of the Lakers" or whatever team you know something about, or "who's your favorite musical artist" if that's what you asked about first, or "what's your favorite style of music".  Just keep asking questions, but based off how she answers you or about what.  As you keep doing this chatting thing you'll learn to throw in a cute funny remark here and there.  You don't have to be a pro comic.  For instance at a job interview once, I was elaborating on answers to questions about myself and realized I'd been overdoing it, so I stopped short, chuckled and remarked "me, me!  it's all about me!"  Everyone chuckled along and it broke the tension of the moment.  I also got the job.  So just concentrate on making the other miserable person feel comfortable and your anxiety will just fade away. Not maybe the first time, or second or third, but it will happen as long as you view it all, the good and the bad as practice for you.  The more you do it, the better you'll get.

[StarStruck]

@Striving for more If you are new, you are going to make tons of mistakes. Getting a particular girl you fancy is going to be difficult.  You will be overanalyzing and be in a state inertia.  Just get past the particulars and shock your system with a lot of experiences with random girls. With every interaction go out of your comfort zone by 10%. 

 Letting go of attachment and neediness is difficult. I'm working on this myself. What I'm doing is, in sets I'm trying to be in my own body (with my awareness), instead of putting the awareness on her. If you put the awareness on her you will try to impress her etc. The moment she knows you are an easy catch or desperate she will lose attraction, if you are not above average looking or her particular type.

[Ghost]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It can work but you have to be funny and confident about it. If you're just saying things in a needy and meek way to get her to like you, that will not work.

The rule is: say things which YOU think are funny. Don't say things to impress her. Amuse yourself when you are with her.

A high value guy is not about how much money you have, it's how strong your personality is. If you are humorous and non-needy, you become a high value guy.

Obviously if you work at Starbucks you should not be making jokes about working at Wall Mart. Find other jokes.

You are not thinking deeply enough about attraction. You think some funny line will make her attracted. That's a mistake. That's not how it works. Attraction is a holistic feeling she gets by being exposed to a strong personality.

There is no magic line or joke that will make her attracted.

You can get attraction with some girls within 3 seconds just by how you look at her, without saying a word.

Attraction is more about your vibe than what you say. The words you say matter little. What matter is how you behave and carry yourself around her.

If you can make her laugh, that's always a good thing. But also, do it in a way where you seem strong and powerful, rather than weak. She shouldn't be feeling sorry for you but respect you as a genuine man.

Well, you need to cut out all signs of neediness while keeping the humor.

You don't need to be perfect for a girl to get attracted or even sleep with you. It's just that the better you are the higher you percentages will be. Girls will give you some leeway. They don't require perfection from you, so relax.

Fake it till you make it. Don't grovel before girls. Act like you are the prize, not her.

Act cocky.

For example, a cocky line I love to use is, "Hey, has anyone ever told you how beautiful [pause] I am?"

Of course you will be needy until you start getting lots of success. In the meantime just try to contain the worse manifestation of your neediness. It's okay to be needy on the inside for now. Just don't show it to her. Don't act desperate.

You can think about her, but don't call or text her too much. Hold yourself back. Less is more.

Work on suppressing all outer signs of your neediness. Inner neediness can only be cured by getting some results. But the girl does not know about your inner neediness, all she knows is what you express outwardly. So just hold your shit in.

I can second this, it's the exact same advice I always give to my male friends

[Jacob Morres]

@Leo Gura the advice is good but I think something rsd missed is that I think that acting attractive is diff than being attractive.

Like it's an identity shift almost. U don't put on a front, it's just who you are. An attractive human being. 

It takes character shift, healing, self esteem changes, core belief changes and also an orientation with your highest self

Like I think this work is the core and then game is techniques that help you actualize the identity 

Or I think u can also take a spiritual work perspective and it helps see through your weaknesses in game with awareness. Shining the light on your ego as it dissolves. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[JonasVE12]

11 hours ago, 28 cm unbuffed said:

@JonasVE12

I reached flow state some time ago and I think when I'll let go of control (which is basically my state all the time now) the opportunities will arise on their own and process will unfold naturally. Is my logic correct here?

Yes, but don't forget that flow state should not be looked at as something outside of yourself that needs to be achieved or gotten to. 

Flow, letting go & surrender should be integrated as parts of your being and should always be the case. It's should not be something outside of yourself now. Of course people use state-pumping to get into that state, but that is not real transformation and growth. State pumping is the same as taking MDMA. Have you ever taken MDMA in social setting? You literally feel like the king. You are the life of the party and everyone is attracted to your presence. Everyone is on the edge of their seat listening to what you have to say because you are so embodied & full of self love and acceptance. The whole dynamic changes. but then, when it wears down, you feel less 'flow' and more self absorbed again. It's all self protection again.

That's not ideal. You always want to be able to do what you are inspired to do without filters. What you often see are these guys doing daygame or nightgame and say 'I really felt in flow just 10 minutes ago, but now I'm not anymore. I feel a bit anxious again'. See, they rely on external validation & statepumping to get into flow. Their internal state depends on external variables, while real transformation does not. 

So you saying 'I reached flow state some time ago' still comes from the duality that seperates you from full self acceptance & permanent letting go. 

Releasing & emotional embodiment are key to permanently integrate these attributes.

 

[JonasVE12]

15 hours ago, Striving for more said:

I would love to but I'm not rich enough to be throwing 4K into a weekend. : (

 

I understand. It's a lot of money. If you really value your growth & happiness and have identified what is holding you back, it might be just what you need & totally worth it. The struggle of not having enough money is real, but don't let limitations and beliefs hold you back from earning that money. In my country, you can participate in drugresearch studies, easily earning 5k and more for 2-3 weeks. There's many options, but if you are stuck in apathy, you might want to release on that first & try to get more in touch with your motivation. Releasing is very important. We are ruled by our emotions. 

 

[Striving for more]

3 minutes ago, JonasVE12 said:

 In my country, you can participate in drugresearch studies, easily earning 5k and more for 2-3 weeks. 

I almost did that in my country too. But I didn't because I don't trust that. Health comes before money. 

If they're willing to pay that much, it's definitely dodgy. I couldn't take that risk of heavy metals or chemicals. 

 

The problem is I need money to make more money. I don't see how a 4K Weekend is sustainable unless I already have 100K ready or something. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

Don't focus so much on the end result.

Life is a musical thing. Dance.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Jacob Morres said:

@Leo Gura the advice is good but I think something rsd missed is that I think that acting attractive is diff than being attractive.

Like it's an identity shift almost. U don't put on a front, it's just who you are. An attractive human being. 

Of course that's the end goal. The challenge is how to get there. You cannot tell an inexperienced virgin to "just BE attractive".

RSD has always taught to "just BE attractive", but they give you practical ways to work towards that if you suck. And almost all of us start out sucking real bad.

When you are a newbie you gotta be a serious try-hard. It won't look natural. But over time it will become natural.

 

[Striving for more]

@JonasVE12 But you're right I think I'll try make it to Miami

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Striving for more