What is the ultimate fate of reality?

[LastThursday]

55 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@LastThursday sounds like @VeganAwake ?

I take that as a compliment. One person you can dismiss, two people you have take more seriously...

57 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I'm assuming "me" is the body-mind complex as a whole. Not the character that can change due to age and life experiences. I'm not asking what happens to my character because it's obviously changing all the time. But rather what happens to 'experience' itself if that makes sense.

I'm not talking about your character, I'm talking about the observer that is "you" thinking you're a body-mind complex. That thing will change and disolve.  That is really what you're calling "experience". Consiousness itself is absolute, but the observer is relative and flimsy. Consciousness carries on, but the observer dies.

[Someone here]

56 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Reflection. thought.

Don't know what you mean. 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

It is already nothing. There isn't any need to dissolve or vanish anything; it is already completely that: whole, one, zero. Nothing is going on......

Right... 

1 hour ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

except your imagination, silly.

Ask yourself as God: when do you want to stop imagining stuff?

When you are in deep sleep is anything imagined?

Now you are talking an alien language that doesn't correspond to direct experience. 

In fact if any.. It's YOU who is imagining God imagining stuff.. not the other way around. 

[Someone here]

48 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

Consiousness itself is absolute, but the observer is relative and flimsy. Consciousness carries on, but the observer dies.

 

What's your definition of consciousness?   

How can there be consciousness without an observer? 

[ivankiss]

48 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Don't know what you mean. 

Direct experience is an illusion. You are everything you're 'experiencing'. 

The thoughts and sensations that arise are a reflection of You. Polarization of Light. Of Being. Of God. You.

You think you are your own reflection in the mirror.

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by ivankiss

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

You keep repeating this sentence as if it were from your holy book. 

You obviously don't know if that's true because you didn't die yet. 

I'm trying to help 'you' notice that there already isn't a 'you' in which could die.... and it's not working very well not surprisingly LOL.

THIS is already death because the 'you' that starts forming around the age of three is an illusion.

Have you heard the phrase: to die before you die.....

That phrase isn't talking about body/mind organism death, it's pointing to the collapse of the illusory entity that claims itself as the body/mind organism.

And yes only no one can know this.

❤

 

[LastThursday]

47 minutes ago, Someone here said:

How can there be consciousness without an observer? 

Aha! How can there be an observer without consciousness? How can there be an observer without the observed? Are you the observer ever able to separate yourself from the observed?

 

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

What's your definition of consciousness?   

 

Consciousness can never be described as anything other than itself.  Because saying its one thing over another is finite, and held within Consciousness.

Consciousness IS!

And what IS Isness?  

Well that takes awakening.

Language cannot go any farther.

 

[Someone here]

3 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

I'm trying to help 'you' notice that there already isn't a 'you' in which could die.... and it's not working very well not surprisingly LOL

Of course there is me. You are just confused about what the  'me' is.  The ego mind is just identification with thoughts. But you are consciousness itself. Obviously you are conscious. Otherwise you can't have this conversation. 

3 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

THIS is already death because the 'you' that starts forming around the age of three is an illusion.

Have you heard the phrase: to die before you die.....

That phrase isn't talking about body/mind organism death, it's pointing to the collapse of the illusory entity that claims itself as the body/mind organism.

I'm not talking about ego death. That's peanuts compared to physical death.

It's actually good that you distinguish between the two. I've had many ego deaths before. The issue here is bigger than realizing there is no separate self inside the organism. I've realized that zillions of times to the point it's no big issue anymore. But the fate of the organism as a whole as long as all of it (all of reality). And back to your earliest comment was about death of organism.. And you didn't die as an organism to tell us (there won't be the slightest remembrance of existence) . To that point i said (you don't know.

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Someone here

[snowyowl]

33 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I'm not talking about ego death. That's peanuts compared to physical death.

So how do you know this either without experiencing physical death? I agree it sure looks that way to those of us who are alive and experiencing the death of someone else. But from the pov of the dying person, don't they have to let go of everything including thoughts whether the process is good or bad?  Heck, I just fell in the same trap myself, assuming I can know something outside my direct experience of the Now  

[Someone here]

@snowyowl well it depends of course on how does one die. Suffocating to death doesn't sound like a pleasant experience. Although you can die without any melodrama (like dying while sleeping). 

But the moment of death..that one final moment is when the levels of fear reach infinity. 

[Breakingthewall]

I once had a kind of dream, after doing psychedelic the day before, about death. the person, me, with all its characteristics, attributes, memories, detached itself, and with all serenity dissolved into nothingness forever, as if it had never existed, and emptiness remained. only that I really was the emptiness, absolutely void, I always was and the person never existed. I think death could be like this

[snowyowl]

@Someone here  you could be right anyway, I've heard of people having crazy experiences with fear & anxiety, like out of body experiences and depersonalisation - perhaps it's a kind of defence mechanism.  Materialists go on to say that near-death-experiences like OOBEs,  going down a tunnel, seeing the bright white light, extremely loving beings etc is a result of the brain chemistry going haywire when close to physical death. Depends if consciousness is limited to the brain, I can't prove that to you either way.

[Igor82]

There is some sort of design here. You can't have heaven without the possibility of hell. Hell will thus be created in all possible manifestations, contextualized with an infinite design of infinite love.

Everything will happen. As anything is possible, given the design. 

[Mafortu]

infinite possibilities mean infinite homework

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Of course there is me. You are just confused about what the  'me' is.  The ego mind is just identification with thoughts. But you are consciousness itself. Obviously you are conscious. Otherwise you can't have this conversation. 

I'm not talking about ego death. That's peanuts compared to physical death.

It's actually good that you distinguish between the two. I've had many ego deaths before. The issue here is bigger than realizing there is no separate self inside the organism. I've realized that zillions of times to the point it's no big issue anymore. But the fate of the organism as a whole as long as all of it (all of reality). And back to your earliest comment was about death of organism.. And you didn't die as an organism to tell us (there won't be the slightest remembrance of existence) . To that point i said (you don't know.

 

Lets look at it bro.

Do you remember being conscious prior to birth?

Do you remember anything before the age of about two or three?

If you're honest the answer is a 100% no I do not, unless you have some kind of mental disorder.

In that sense it seems like a pretty safe assumption to assume that after that body/mind organism dies nothing goes on existing.(Awakening or not)

The biggest problem for the sense of self is death. It simply cannot comprehend or fathom the idea of itself not being there...it's the most important self on the planet don't you know.

This is of course why religion/spiritual materialism is so popular.... it feeds perfectly into the sense of self's delusions of eternal life. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

12 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Do you remember being conscious prior to birth?

If you reach a state of meditation of total silence, empty, you will see that this is what there was before your birth, and you will understand how, after your birth, that emptiness begins to fill with images, appearance. that emptiness before birth does not pass, it is the same all the time, and it will always remain the same. you say there is nothing after death? You are right, since that void is nothing, but if you become familiar with it, you will see that that void is you, and that all the images that fill it are nothing, appearance without reality.  only the void is 

The issue of spirituality, imo, is not just understanding that the ego is illusory, it is knowing the void and beginning to understand it, it is a non-conceptual understanding that I think can be much deeper. understand that there is no I is not the end, it is only the beginning

Edited May 13, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Javfly33]

12 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Lets look at it bro.

Do you remember being conscious prior to birth?

Do you remember anything before the age of about two or three?

If you're honest the answer is a 100% no I do not, unless you have some kind of mental disorder.

In that sense it seems like a pretty safe assumption to assume that after that body/mind organism dies nothing goes on existing.(Awakening or not)

The biggest problem for the sense of self is death. It simply cannot comprehend or fathom the idea of itself not being there...it's the most important self on the planet don't you know.

This is of course why religion/spiritual materialism is so popular.... it feeds perfectly into the sense of self's delusions of eternal life. 

 

 

 

 

 

You were NEVER BORN lmao ?

You can't imagine how deep this goes man ?

You are the universe how are you going to be 'born'?

To be born there must be a duality between that which gets born (sorry for my english I don't know how to use born in past tense Lol), and to the place where you get born.

But since you are the universe/One (non duality) you can not be born. You can only divide yourself to make the appearance that you get born.

And you do that by imagining a human being and a an apparent 'physical reality'. Then yeah, the imaginary human being does get born. But of pure imagination of yourself. 

 

[Chris365]

14 hours ago, Someone here said:

But the moment of death..that one final moment is when the levels of fear reach infinity. 

Fear is of the ego, in your many ego deaths, did you feel any fear?

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

You were NEVER BORN lmao ?

Exactly, You is an illusion that seems to arise around age 2 or 3.

You can't imagine how deep this goes man ?

imagination seems to occur, it just doesn't belong to anyone.

You are the universe how are you going to be 'born'?

who is the universe? There isn't anyone.

To be born there must be a duality between that which gets born (sorry for my english I don't know how to use born in past tense Lol), and to the place where you get born.

imagination believing something seems dualistic, does not constitute real separation. It's an illusion of separation.(illusion meaning something that seems real, but ultimately was never the case)

But since you are the universe/One (non duality) you can not be born. You can only divide yourself to make the appearance that you get born.

who is the universe? there isn't a you. No one divides anything because it's an illusion.

And you do that by imagining a human being and a an apparent 'physical reality'. Then yeah, the imaginary human being does get born. But of pure imagination of yourself. 

The illusion that someone imagines separation is just more illusion. The separation never occurred because the one imagining separation isn't real.