Aren't psychedelics the ultimate tease?

[Javfly33]

On 10/5/2021 at 5:39 AM, 4201 said:

Why would one ever want to be awake only part-time? Yes you see everything on psychedelics but you had to force your mind to stop identifying with thought as if you can't do that without it. Doesn't it lead to a form of learned helplessness?

No matter how much more work it is to be able to stay present without psychedelics, it's infinitely more useful than being awake 10% of the time. I really love psychedelics and everytime I take them it's just amazing. But the doubts I have about my ability to wake up sober do not go away with psychedelics. You could say I should just not care about my ability to awaken without psychedelics but my ability to not care = my ability to awaken without psychedelics. The reality is no matter how great my psychedelic awakening are, I still feel shit for most of the time because of thought identification and no amount of psychedelics actually raise my ability to not identify with thought, it just temporarilly makes it easy.

Then you ain't really tripping property.

My first trips of Lsd completely vanished thought loops of thought stories of obsessions/ocd/ego

Careful with what psychedelics you use. Personally for example 5-meo-dmt or DMT do nothing for me in my sober life. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, 4201 said:

If you stop taking anything for a year, how your life would be?

I personally dislike the dependence. I'm glad embracing the dependence worked for you but personally I dislike the idea of having to rely on an external substance for happiness or productivity. And honestly there is no reason to. Anything that is possible on 5 MeO is possible without 5 MeO. 

Yeah , dependence is never a good idea, but once you have seen how the ego works, and you have freed yourself, even for a short time, it is quite unbearable to fall into the endless mazes of the ego that make your life miserable. You know that remembering that this or that happened is ego, illusion, but you cannot get out of there or silence your mind for a moment, so if you have a tool that works, you use it. Nor is it a magic that nullifies the ego, it only makes it separate for a moment. After having done that 100 times, I can do it only with meditation, reaching an empty mind every day, and that improves the quality of life a lot. Now I do 5 meo very rarely, meditation is more clean and works. I will do again in the future but a complete dose plugging

Anything that is possible with 5 meo is possible without 5 meo? Maybe, but being realistic, almost Impossible

Edited June 11, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Flyboy]

On 5/9/2021 at 8:43 PM, Leo Gura said:

This is such an absurd framing for 3 reasons:

1) All spiritual work is gradual. You might as well argue, why would anyone ever want to go to a meditation retreat to only awaken part time?

NOBODY awakens in one single shot. This is pure nonsense myths.

2) Time is an illusion. So the idea that a psychedelic awakening is "impermanent" or "temporary" is purely a delusion of the ego-mind. A psychedelic awakening is Absolute, and the Absolute does not care how long it lasts in human time. A psychedelic awakening is timeless and Eternal, even if it only lasts "15 minutes" in human time. Stop conflating time with truth. 1 second is as true as 1 million years.

3) To claim that psychedelic trips do not grow you is absurd and contradicts all the science on psychedelics.

Point 2 feels very self-biased to me, Leo.  Time may technically be an illusion from an "absolute" standpoint, but we are not living that in our day-to-day experience.  Regardless of our true nature, we are living these human lives from the perspective of these body-minds.  Within this limited context, the only time that matters is NOW, and psychedelics only leave you with a memory occurring NOW, which is conceptual, flawed, and by definition Not It.  How you can you so fiercely defend this?  Your own warnings of self-bias seem very appropriate here--you have experienced non-duality/etc. with psychedelics and haven't achieved permanent awakening through meditation/contemplation.  Is it not self-biased to promote the former and downplay the latter?  I don't think it's healthy OR true to tell people the NOW doesn't matter.  It is the only thing we have within this human experience, and personally, I want to awaken in the NOW.

You're right that it's very hard to do and that people have to be committed to do it.  But it doesn't take 40 years, nor is it impossible, and I think you really downplay the spiritual journey that happens within that process.  You will never be free until you are free right now.