Aren't psychedelics the ultimate tease?

[vladorion]

Also, if you're not already effortlessly living in the moment when having a psychedelic awakening, there's a big chance your ego is just going to co-opt the awakening and identify with the experience, thinking it's God, awareness, emptiness etc.

[Flowerfaeiry]

4 hours ago, 4201 said:

I want productivity so I can pay my rent. I very rarely have any productivity when lost in thought. I'm working on my own business so I got no manager to kick my ass if I'm not productive. This always puts productivity into question and whether or not it will be present on a certain day.

I'm making an indie game and trying to turn it into a source of revenue. I have a limited time until which I will have to get a job to pay for my living expenses. It either works or not and I don't mind the outcome, but seeing myself not giving my best in achieving my dream is excruciating. I wake up with the very strong desire and expectation to have a great day and actually do something, but then anything goes wrong becomes a spiral of doom and I find it difficult to get out of those spirals without psychedelics.

I can accept the fact that financial stability is a priviledge that I don't have and none of the lifestyle itself causes me pain or trouble. But I highly struggle accepting a "self that is not productive" because I know it's untrue and totally unnecessary pain. It's so ridiculous and pathetic to fall for the same traps everyday and suffering my own action for no reason whatsoever. To make it I need to be more present than once every 2 weeks. I don't need god consciousness everyday but I need a base level of consciousness to avoid falling for unproductive thoughts.

Sounds like you need to do some groundwork my friend. 

4 hours ago, 4201 said:

At this point I've been tripping on shrooms or LSD for every week or two for more than a year now and it sure helps being more present on the days around the trip but on the other days, it doesn't change much. I see how my life situation is unique and not everyone cares as much to be present all the time. At least in my case, it's a bit like a tease.

I always have the 5-MeO-DMT option though. I struggle with this option because of how psychedelic dependent that makes me in the end (and also the fact you need to stop eating for 4 hours or risk choking in your own vomit thing). I theorically could take 5 MeO every 3 days to try and fill the gaps but that sounds like a bigger struggle. Being able to maintain presence sober is definitely the way to go for me.

These two paragraphs are painful to read. Please do not use psychedelics this way. 5MEO will not solve your problems. Integrate, and stop longing for these states. 

 

[Flowerfaeiry]

3 hours ago, vladorion said:

Because psychedelic awakenings don't stick except in very rare cases, probably when a person was very close to it anyway. 

The state itself doesn't last, but you're left with the lessons. That's the whole point...

[4201]

5 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Sounds like you need to do some groundwork my friend. 

What do you suggest exactly? More meditation?

5 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

These two paragraphs are painful to read. Please do not use psychedelics this way. 5MEO will not solve your problems. Integrate, and stop longing for these states. 

I mean I've already done it and it literally does. There is no problem to solve in the end, just situations to stop imagining as problems. It's not like I literally work while tripping, but after taking a substance I no longer identify with a "self that do not want to work" or a "self that is lazy" for 3-4 days.

[Flowerfaeiry]

3 hours ago, 4201 said:

What do you suggest exactly? More meditation?

I mean I've already done it and it literally does. There is no problem to solve in the end, just situations to stop imagining as problems. It's not like I literally work while tripping, but after taking a substance I no longer identify with a "self that do not want to work" or a "self that is lazy" for 3-4 days.

Friend, have you watched some of Leo's older videos on basic personal development? I recommend:

• How To Get Shit Done - The Inner Game Of Being A Results-Maker
• Motivational Speech For Building A Passionate Life

You have to ground yourself in material reality. You can do awakening work and grounding work at the same time, yet being able to be productive in your job requires a different skill set. 

Meditation will help your overall life, but if your problem is discipline, not really. 

[4201]

2 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Friend, have you watched some of Leo's older videos on basic personal development? I recommend:

• How To Get Shit Done - The Inner Game Of Being A Results-Maker
• Motivational Speech For Building A Passionate Life

You have to ground yourself in material reality. You can do awakening work and grounding work at the same time, yet being able to be productive in your job requires a different skill set. 

Meditation will help your overall life, but if your problem is discipline, not really. 

I did watch that first video several times over my last 5 years of productivity struggle. As for my life purpose, I'm quite clear on it. Good planning and setting a right mindset goes a long way but it's nothing like staying present. Thanks for the help still, I'll go get some shit done now.

Edited May 11, 2021 by 4201

[SgtPepper]

Actually, I think they are the real deal. 

Teases are like the little moments of bliss you get watching a movie scene that gives you goosebumps - that's the tease.

[vladorion]

8 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

The state itself doesn't last, but you're left with the lessons. That's the whole point...

The point of awakening is not to learn lessons... It's to return to your natural state. And it's a lot of unlearning in the process rather than learning.

[Flowerfaeiry]

15 minutes ago, vladorion said:

The point of awakening is not to learn lessons... It's to return to your natural state. And it's a lot of unlearning in the process rather than learning.

I didn't say anything about the point of awakening. You awaken, then that particular awake state goes away/lessens. You're then left with the memory of that awakening. You then integrate that. Unlearning is still a learning. 

[vladorion]

31 minutes ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

I didn't say anything about the point of awakening. You awaken, then that particular awake state goes away/lessens. You're then left with the memory of that awakening. You then integrate that. Unlearning is still a learning. 

I originally replied to you when you were asking why someone wanted to awaken psychedelic free. To which I replied that psychedelic awakenings don't stick. To which you replied something about learning lessons on psychedelics (which has nothing to do with awakening).

You can't integrate a memory of an awakening. All you can do with such a memory is create an image of an awakened state in your mind and believe that that's awakening, which would take you even further away from direct experience.

 

[erik8lrl]

If you've gone deep enough with psychedelic, you will realize the level of consciousness that you can reach on them is almost impossible to reach with meditation. You can have maybe 1% of the maximum level of consciousness you can reach in psychedelic with hardcore meditation. Psychedelic can definitely raise your baseline level sometimes even more than meditation. However, this is not to say that meditation is not important. Hardcore meditation will ultimately lead you to a state of pure being, where you are embodying the ultimate truth on a conscious level. In this state, you've surrendered all illusions, and only awareness of existence remains. Once you reach this state, if you then take a psychedelic, you are then capable of reaching the maximum level of consciousness since you can now surrender all of existence and go all the way. Once you've gone all the way, the concept of baseline or levels of consciousness will become less important since you are now all of them, and you will never be anything else.

However, it's also important to integrate your trips through contemplation and meditation. If you just take psychedelic 24/7 without integrating them, you will never go really deep on trips, since your baseline is static. Think of psychedelic as an amplifier that amplifies what you already embody. If you are only gaining insights and not embodying anything, you will just stay at the same place. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by erik8lrl

[Flowerfaeiry]

5 minutes ago, vladorion said:

I originally replied to you when you were asking why someone wanted to awaken psychedelic free. To which I replied that psychedelic awakenings don't stick. To which you replied something about learning lessons on psychedelics (which has nothing to do with awakening).

Awakenings are lessons. Having an awakening into the ultimate nature of reality is a lesson. 

10 minutes ago, vladorion said:

You can't integrate a memory of an awakening. All you can do with such a memory is create an image of an awakened state in your mind and believe that that's awakening, which would take you even further away from direct experience.

Let's say someone has an awakening of infinite love. They take that experience with them and learn how to live more lovingly. 

[vladorion]

1 hour ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Awakenings are lessons. Having an awakening into the ultimate nature of reality is a lesson. 

Let's say someone has an awakening of infinite love. They take that experience with them and learn how to live more lovingly. 

It's as much a lesson as waking up in the morning.

You can use it as a lesson I guess if you go back to sleep.

[4201]

I think the main issues I was trying to highlight in this thread is learned helplessness regarding the ability to awaken without psychedelics.

Having repeated awakening experiences on psychedelics while not seeing the type of life I want whenever I'm not on psychedelics for a long time lead me to believe I just am not able to stay awake by myself psychedelic-free.

Of course this is a thought story and taking a psychedelic will deconstruct the story but it doesn't really matter. This story will come back whenever I've been sober for a while again because the story itself overlooks the psychedelic experiences has having "been done on psychedelics". It reinforces the idea that I can only be awake on psychedelics.

I could simply just recognize that this is entirely a story and consider the case closed. I've done that many times before and after doing this I've taken my psychedelic. Fast forward 2 weeks later and I'm believing the same story and associating my past state of well being to the psychedelic rather than remembering the fact I've overcame the belief naturally prior to taking the psychedelic.

I think it's clear for me at this point that what I want is a full sober awakening. Perhaps it's just silly to judge awakenings to either be sober or not, but I believe my ego would highly benefit having this "proof" that I can do it sober. 

[Breakingthewall]

@4201 a question: do you meditate? I've been avoiding meditation for a long time, like: I'm going to focus when I drive, play sports, make my life a meditative activity. Error, this doesn't work. It is very lazy at first, but you have to meditate, and if it can be two full hours each day, at least one. This makes a huge difference in your life. something as simple, mechanical as sitting and watching your mind is the key. I think a lot of people meditate sometimes, and it doesn't ... it has to be constant. internalize that it is as important as work or more

[4201]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

@4201 a question: do you meditate? I've been avoiding meditation for a long time, like: I'm going to focus when I drive, play sports, make my life a meditative activity. Error, this doesn't work. It is very lazy at first, but you have to meditate, and if it can be two full hours each day, at least one. This makes a huge difference in your life. something as simple, mechanical as sitting and watching your mind is the key. I think a lot of people meditate sometimes, and it doesn't ... it has to be constant. internalize that it is as important as work or more

Yes I meditate daily for 30 minutes. It doesn't prevent me from spending the whole 30 minute of meditation rationalizing about why meditation doesn't work, but the habit is there.

[Breakingthewall]

@4201 It sounds like you have to focus on the external for a while, but that doing so takes hold of your ego and that makes life miserable. I know that is not recommended but an almost micro dose of 5 meo (like 3-4 mg vaped) every week takes off the ego. it makes you look into the abyss but without becoming it, and it helps to take off the ego. I don't think it's very physically harmful, but I'm not sure

[4201]

18 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@4201 It sounds like you have to focus on the external for a while, but that doing so takes hold of your ego and that makes life miserable. I know that is not recommended but an almost micro dose of 5 meo (like 3-4 mg vaped) every week takes off the ego. it makes you look into the abyss but without becoming it, and it helps to take off the ego. I don't think it's very physically harmful, but I'm not sure

I can take any psychedelic (shrooms, acid or 5meo). I know it would feel amazing but next week I'd be back thinking I can only awaken with psychedelics. That is the issue.

Edited June 11, 2021 by 4201

[Breakingthewall]

@4201 before could not detach my ego, and I went into loops all the time, but it was to do a microdose of 5meo and I saw the ego for what it was, impossible thing when meditating. I did that for about 8 months, and sometimes a strong dose, maybe even 3-4 days, and now I don't need it, if I start to notice negative thought loops, I meditate until the ego is revealed for what it is and takes off. if it weren't for the 5meo I think I would never have managed to deactivate the ego. the thing was to go vaping little by little until reaching the brink of dissolution, where the ego is seen as the ghost that it is. just seeing it for a moment is enough. I know that recommending this is a bit risky but my quality of life from 1.5 years ago to now is another dimension. not only has it been thanks to this practice but it has been a huge help

[4201]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@4201 before could not detach my ego, and I went into loops all the time, but it was to do a microdose of 5meo and I saw the ego for what it was, impossible thing when meditating. I did that for about 8 months, and sometimes a strong dose, maybe even 3-4 days, and now I don't need it, if I start to notice negative thought loops, I meditate until the ego is revealed for what it is and takes off. if it weren't for the 5meo I think I would never have managed to deactivate the ego. the thing was to go vaping little by little until reaching the brink of dissolution, where the ego is seen as the ghost that it is. just seeing it for a moment is enough. I know that recommending this is a bit risky but my quality of life from 1.5 years ago to now is another dimension. not only has it been thanks to this practice but it has been a huge help

If you stop taking anything for a year, how your life would be?

I personally dislike the dependence. I'm glad embracing the dependence worked for you but personally I dislike the idea of having to rely on an external substance for happiness or productivity. And honestly there is no reason to. Anything that is possible on 5 MeO is possible without 5 MeO.