Why there is "stuff"?

[Osaid]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Right. But it's a bias either way. Why have physical stuff and phenomenon and not pure blank? 

For the experience of physical stuff. You can't have two different experiences at the same time, if that's what you would consider to be unbiased. You can't be a dog and a kangaroo at the same time, you have to fully become either thing. If God switched to pure blank, you would say the bias is that there is no physical stuff. But, in order to experience either situation, aspects from each need to be negated. 

It's also noteworthy to be conscious of the fact that you're ultimately just imagining bias, because you're imagining that there is an experience that is other than what is right now, and that you can't access it. This current experience is all there is. Even hypothesizing about a different potential experience is just extrapolation, because the only experience is your current one. Consciousness wanted to experience you thinking that it is biased, and in order to do that it had to make you imagine some experience of empty blankness that you can't access.

Although, it's not like you are unable to experience a "pure blank". I have experienced it before. It doesn't take any extra effort for the universe to experience what it is like to be a human than to be in a state of pure nothingness. "Pure blank" is not some special default state of consciousness that is fundamentally different from normal experiences, it is just another experience in the vast ocean of experiences.

[VeganAwake]

 

[Adamq8]

@Someone here What if we have the idea that nothing should be a blank and something is stuff, what if nothing is all this and something is deep sleep, what if deep sleep never happens?

what if a blank is not possible?

Hihi just some random thoughts i came up with ??

[Tim R]

9 hours ago, Someone here said:

Then that would also be saying too much. So why are you biased towards the negative? 

you are leaving it as a superposition of "it exists and it doesn't exist and both and neither". I dig that that's true absolutely speaking. But it certainly is not how you experience it in your everyday life. You certainly Believe stuff exists.  Come the fuck on

@Someone here It's much more simple than that. I'm not biased towards "the negative", since there is no negative. 

You're trying to answer a question that cannot be answered with words, because words are part of the answer. 

To say that there is no stuff is simply as close as I can manage to talk about "it".

Of course words fail, what did you expect? 

[Nahm]

@Someone here

(Analogously) Water vibrationally appears as ice, and as ice, asks ‘why is there stuff’ (separate stuff, like ice, since there’s ice).

You’re as they say, ‘getting warmer’. 

[Adamq8]

5 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

@Nahm How hot can one get? ?

So hot that you evaporate ??

[Nahm]

@DefinitelyNotARobot @Adamq8 ?

[Nahm]

11 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

@Adamq8 So is that why Jesus went into the desert? 

NICE! 

[VeganAwake]

It certainly is radical.

Stacking nothing(labels) onto nothing, and it still ends up being nothing.

In that sense THIS is utterly unknowable.

It can't be pinned down because it's already everything & nothing.  

Its like trying to sit on a cloud, or catch a fart in the wind.

[Someone here]

5 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Someone here

(Analogously) Water vibrationally appears as ice, and as ice, asks ‘why is there stuff’ (separate stuff, like ice, since there’s ice).

You’re as they say, ‘getting warmer’. 

Yes you basically reformed my question but didn't answer it. 

I'm guessing water is analogous to nothingness. And ice is something. So nothing appears as stuff. My question is why or how If you will. How does nothing appear as stuff. If it truly is nothing.. Where does the" stuffness "quality come from? How do you appear as something you are actually not? 

[Forestluv]

15 hours ago, Someone here said:

I mean I get it intellectually. I can talk about how stuff is actually nothingness theoretically. But experientially I feel that's stuff doesn't equal no stuff. What I don't get is... If stuff is actually no stuff if you get to the bottom of it.. Then why it takes on the appearance of stuff exclusively?.. Why the universe wasn't just pure empty space? 

If green = blue, then why does grass appear green and the sky appear blue?

Ime, form = formless is one of the most challenging things to embody. Logical reasoning couldn't bring me there. 

[Someone here]

@Forestluv

Got it. Just sharing it with you.. 

let's put it this way.. An empty house is not the same as a house full of people.. Yet both are equally nothing fabrically speaking.  The universe is "metaphorically " a full house. My question why isn't it an "empty house" even tho I understand that it's nothing either way. But some forms of nothing are more nothing than others? Idk lol 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Someone here

[Tim R]

@Someone here I don't understand your confusion. You seem to understand, at least on a conceptual level, that "the world underneath" all labels is "nothing". 

38 minutes ago, Someone here said:

let's put it this way.. An empty house is not the same as a house full of people

Yes, but it's also not different.

38 minutes ago, Someone here said:

some forms of nothing are more nothing than others?

Noooo void the void. Till there's nothing to void and nothing that could've even been voided.

You're still clinging to the last label, "something".

edit: you're treating the label "something" as "nothing" and vice versa.

there isn't even nothing, that's how much nothing Nothing is. 

Goddammit words are clumsy. Find out for yourself, we obviously can't tell you about nothing.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Tim R

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

(Analogously) Water vibrationally appears as ice, and as ice, asks ‘why is there stuff’ (separate stuff, like ice, since there’s ice). You’re as they say, ‘getting warmer’. 

 

Yes you basically reformed my question but didn't answer it. 

I'm guessing water is analogous to nothingness. And ice is something. So nothing appears as stuff. My question is why or how If you will. How does nothing appear as stuff. If it truly is nothing.. Where does the" stuffness "quality come from? How do you appear as something you are actually not? 

I’m so glad you said I didn’t answer it. That allows ‘going deeper’. 

Water is not analogous to nothingness in that analogy. Water does not know the thought, ‘why’, nor would water expect a thought to answer the thought, ‘why’, because water realizes it is water, already. Water is formless & eternal. Water does not have a ‘why’, only ‘what’ water is, or, it’s true nature of wetness. Water does not expect a ‘why’ answer as to water being wet, water is water, that is “why” it is wet. Water is not the idea of water. Water is water. Water can not appear as something it is not. Ice... is... water. 

If I could type here, a why, and that was all there was to it... brother, believe me, I’d type it. But I cannot. Water doesn’t work that way. So I make my self available, 24/7, and it usually takes an hour - two hours to get wet. We all have hardships and challenges in our lives, but have you ever actually considered how difficult it would be to be overwhelmed with love, joy, and laughter, yet not even smile?

[gettoefl]

15 hours ago, The0Self said:

Everything is nothing without me.

you nailed it, thank you

there is only i god so if you look and see something that supposedly is not me, it is nothing namely it is illusory impermanent invalid

thus all the somethings you see are nothing

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

@Forestluv

let's put it this way.. An empty house is not the same as a house full of people.. Yet both are equally nothing fabrically speaking.  The universe is "metaphorically " a full house. My question why isn't it an "empty house" even tho I understand that it's nothing either way. But some forms of nothing are more nothing than others? Idk lol 

You seem to be creating multiple forms and trying to relate them to each other:

1) Forms of empty and full

2) Forms of fabric and non-fabric

3) Forms of nothing

Reason alone cannot transcend reason. There needs to be Rhyme and Reason. 

[snowyowl]

@Someone here  "My question : I get that there is no difference between something and nothing. But I can't wrap my mind around why there is "stuff". "

"What I don't get is... If stuff is actually no stuff if you get to the bottom of it.. Then why it takes on the appearance of stuff exclusively?.. Why the universe wasn't just pure empty space? "

My understanding, which I owe to Alan Watts & others, is that form and emptiness, something and nothing, are a dualistic pair, or 'mutually arising' as the Buddhists say. I.e. they co-exist; space only exists if there's objects to delineate it. Pure empty space is as nonsensical as pure stuff without space to occupy.

For example, when the Big Bang created our universe, space, time, energy, matter and consciousness all co-created in unity. Form and emptiness arose simultaneously.

It's not only that there's no difference between something and nothing, but also something/nothing is the on/off duality which is the appearance, to us, of the nameless (being), Reality, God.

So I'd frame the question another way: why do we see this dualistic appearance? Something to do with our consciousness surely.

Edited May 8, 2021 by snowyowl

[Someone here]

On 5/8/2021 at 8:22 PM, Nahm said:

Water is not analogous to nothingness in that analogy. Water does not know the thought, ‘why’, nor would water expect a thought to answer the thought, ‘why’, because water realizes it is water, already. Water is formless & eternal. Water does not have a ‘why’, only ‘what’ water is, or, it’s true nature of wetness. Water does not expect a ‘why’ answer as to water being wet, water is water, that is “why” it is wet. Water is not the idea of water. Water is water. Water can not appear as something it is not. Ice... is... water. 

Water is analogous to awareness or reality itself? 

Water does know the thought "why" via the human mind. 

Water is ice that's true. But also it's a different modulation of ice. So they are also different. 

It does appear as something it's not. For example if the underlying substance of everything is one (nondual) then how do we have appearant separation? We look around and see trees and cars and people.. Separation. 

You didn't explain how do we get diversity of "stuff 'from the basic nondual substance. 

 

[Someone here]

On 5/9/2021 at 1:35 AM, snowyowl said:

My understanding, which I owe to Alan Watts & others, is that form and emptiness, something and nothing, are a dualistic pair, or 'mutually arising' as the Buddhists say. I.e. they co-exist; space only exists if there's objects to delineate it. Pure empty space is as nonsensical as pure stuff without space to occupy.

So is something and nothing indistinguishable or "mutually arising"? To say they are codependent or mutually arising suggests that they are distinct and not the same thing (creates a duality) 

 

[Nahm]

19 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Water is analogous to awareness or reality itself? 

No. 

Quote

Water does know the thought "why" via the human mind. 

Human mind is parallel to why, as another thought. Trying pointing to one. 

Quote

Water is ice that's true. But also it's a different modulation of ice. So they are also different. 

Not to the water. 

Quote

It does appear as something it's not. For example if the underlying substance of everything is one (nondual) then how do we have appearant separation? We look around and see trees and cars and people.. Separation. 

You didn't explain how do we get diversity of "stuff 'from the basic nondual substance. 

Water is magic and can forget on purpose, and believe appearance can be separation when it isn’t.