Is it possible to never find ANY girls who perceive you to be their type?

[Harlen Kelly]

2 minutes ago, Emerald said:

No, we’re not confusing how we get attracted to men with how men get attracted to women.

We’re talking about how older women get attracted to men. That’s what the post is about.

It isn’t about general male preference.

It’s about the type of man that older women find suitable of time and attention and how much more chaff she will know to sort once she actually knows what wheat looks like. 

This is about our biases, not yours. 

While all men will be attracted to youth and beauty, high quality men will not feel compelled to seek relationship purely on this basis. He will be concerned for the well-being of much younger women who just came of age, even if he recognizes their attractiveness. 

A high quality and mature man will be concerned with far more than sexual attraction. His relationship choices will be based on a desire to have intimacy, go deep, and find long term companionship.

That’s what a high quality man is to all women, young and old. It’s just that very young women usually haven’t discovered this yet and usually won’t until their late 20s or so.

1 - This was not a response to your comment, it was a response to hers. Read the conversation again.

2 - I am not talking about relationships, I am talking about the primary attraction trigger for most men (including conscious men)

Edited May 30, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Emerald]

Just now, Harlen Kelly said:

This was not a response to your comment, it was a response to hers. Read the conversation again.

I know who you were responding to. You weren’t understanding her point, so I clarified.

[Harlen Kelly]

@Emerald This thread is not limited to the particular angle through which you want to approach the conversation. It is not limited to your ''biases''. Why? Because this is an open forum. This is obvious and should not have to be stated. 

I addressed your point about a conscious man forming a relationship with an immature but hot young woman on my response to @Etherial Cat.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Emerald]

Just now, Harlen Kelly said:

@Emerald This thread is not limited to the particular angle through which you want to approach the conversation. It is not limited to your ''biases''. Why? Because this is an open forum. This is obvious and should not have to be stated. 

I’m not saying the thread is limited to that.

But we were all in a conversation about women’s preferences and biases.

And you essentially made the argument “No. Those aren’t women’s preferences and biases because male preferences and biases say otherwise.”

That’s why I responded that way. 

Male perspectives/biases doesn’t really affect women’s perspectives/biases.

So, a just because men generally are attracted to younger women. This doesn’t change the fact that women get more selective as they age.

And we were talking about the dynamics of the latter fact, and you’re seeking to argue against it with the former fact.

You essentially said the male equivalent of, “Yeah but unattractive women prefer this.” 

Just as you probably aren’t very tuned in to what unattractive women prefer, women as they age and get experience are also not tuned into the way that immature men only look for surface level qualities and may even be exploitative to young women.

We will tune our radar to men who we can grow old together with, who see women as whole people who will continue to age. And who will prefer this depth of companionship to trading us in for a new model every decade.

[Harlen Kelly]

44 minutes ago, Emerald said:

You essentially said the male equivalent of, “Yeah but unattractive women prefer this.” 

No, I am very clearly and specifically talking about what most men are attracted to, not what ''unattractive'' women are attracted to. 

Demonizing and moralizing about the fact that most men (including conscious men) are primarily attracted to youthfulness and attractiveness in women is both irrational and counter productive. 

Not only is it irrational, it's also a neurotic defense mechanism you unconsciously use instead of comprehending the subject at hand. 

It would be the equivalent of getting mad at a cat for mowing. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Emerald]

22 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@Emerald 

I addressed your point about a conscious man forming a relationship with an immature but hot young woman on my response to @Etherial Cat.

But this means that that man is a low quality partner... to younger and older woman alike.

So, this type of man is not actually high consciousness. 

A highly conscious 40 year old man will still find 20 year old women physically attractive... simply because 20 year old women are attractive and because his instincts naturally will fire in response to that beauty. 

But a highly conscious man has control of his impulses and instincts. He will not let his urges drive him because he has character and discipline.

A conscious 40 year old man, will be aware of the power imbalance and exploitative dynamic in a relationship with a 20 year old. He will be concerned for her well-being. And he will prefer a partner who is his match in terms of intellect and stage of life.

An immature man, will simply let his instincts drive him toward a younger woman who he has a power imbalance with.

This is why this type of man is not high quality as he is immature and flimsy.

And older women have dealt with lots of these men. So, she will be able to peg him as an unsuitable partner.

 

[Harlen Kelly]

11 minutes ago, Emerald said:

A highly conscious 40 year old man will still find 20 year old women physically attractive... simply because 20 year old women are attractive and because his instincts naturally will fire in response to that beauty. 

He might not form a relationship with an immature woman, but a hot young woman will surely elicit attraction on most men, including conscious men. Because attraction for men happens automatically, instantaneously and visually. 

Why does that fact trigger you so much? Is it because you are aging? If you did not derive your sense of self from your appearance, this should not affect you emotionally at all.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Harlen Kelly said:

No, I am very clearly and specifically talking about what most men are attracted to, not what ''unattractive'' women are attracted to. 

Men are universally attracted to youth and beauty. There is no argument there.

But a man who is ONLY or PRIMARILY seeking a youthful and beautiful partner regardless of compatibility, capacity for intimacy, and power equivalence IS an undesirable man.

Younger women usually aren’t experienced enough to pick up on this an will fall for him because she is seeking a partner that seems mature as a result of his age. But this immaturity will rise quickly.

Older women have experienced this dynamic already and see the lameness of these kinds of guys.

It’s kind of like how, when you’re a 15 year old girl and your friend is dating a 21 year old guy, you get jealous because he seems so much older and more mature.

But then you get a few years older and you’re like, “Oh! That guy was an immature creep.”

It’s like that... only without the added creepiness of the girl not being past the age of consent.

[Harlen Kelly]

9 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But a man who is ONLY or PRIMARILY seeking a youthful and beautiful partner regardless of compatibility, capacity for intimacy, and power equivalence IS an undesirable man.

The more mature and conscious a man becomes, the more he will value things like compatibility and capacity for intimacy, but attraction is involuntary and automatic and as you already conceded, most men are attracted to youth and beauty. 

That does not mean a more conscious man will only take that into account when choosing a partner, but it DOES mean that he will primarily be attracted to young, beautiful women.

A point I would like to make, your continuous bashing of the primary attraction trigger of men using labels such as ''lame'' or ''creep'' does not show a holistic, integral perspective of this topic, it shows a neurotic reaction to the topic, simply because that's what most men are attracted to and no amount of moralization or demonization will change that fact. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Emerald]

6 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

He might not form a relationship with an immature woman, but a hot young woman will surely elicit attraction on most men, including conscious men. Because attraction for men happens automatically, instantaneously and visually. 

Why does that fact trigger you so much? Is it because you are aging? If you did not derive your sense of self from your appearance, this should not affect you emotionally so much.

I’m not denying that youth and attractiveness are universally attractive to men. That’s biologically wired in.

The distinction I’m making is that, as a woman gets older her biases filter out men who are hyper-focused toward surface level things.

But I am actually far more comfortable now with aging than I was at 20.

When I was 20, I would get super freaked out about it because I thought men would cease to be interested in me.

But I realize now, at age 32, that men who are 32+ who are specifically looking for a woman who is barely an adult or who are hyper-focused toward beauty as a standard for relationship are low quality partners.

You cannot grow with these types of men.

And that, a man who becomes interested in me at age 32 is far more likely to want me as more than just arm candy.

Spam guys filter themselves a bit more. 

[Etherial Cat]

36 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

By attraction I meant physical attraction, I am not talking about the inherent beauty of people or objects that transcends their physical appearance, I am talking specifically about the desire to have sexual relationships with somebody that is elicited automatically and instantaneously in the case of men. 

Attraction changes with maturity and this goes as well for men. As I mentioned it earlier, they will still appreciate a young woman's beauty but their experience and wisdom significantly tame a potential drive for actually seeking sex with incompatible partners. 

Beside, a man who already had multiple sexual experiences is usually seeking for something deeper than some rather shallow sexuality. So they screen out women with additional filters.

49 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

You are confusing they way you get attracted to men with the way men get attracted to women. The level of ''maturity'' of a woman is not the primary trigger of attraction for men, what most men are attracted to physically (including conscious men) is the looks of the woman, that accounts for most of the attraction. 

No, I am not confusing anything. 

A man needs to be attracted to a woman for sex. But men are able to still be attracted to women past their prime. The maturity of the woman does count for mature men, because as long as there is a sufficient base for attraction he's going to be more fulfilled with her than a woman without it.

1 hour ago, Harlen Kelly said:

That obviously does not mean that the maturity and level of development of the woman is not important, but those variables alone DO NOT elicit attraction in men because as I said attraction is elicited automatically and instantaneously in men by the looks of the woman.

A man is happy as long as he finds the woman attractive enough. The resonance on the subjective level is far more important than maximizing looks.

1 hour ago, Harlen Kelly said:

Youth and attractiveness is and will always be (at least in our lifetime) the main attraction trigger of men (including conscious men) because that is how attraction works for men (which I honestly thought that a woman your age should've figured this out by now). 

Men are attracted to attractive, young girls on a superficial level. But there are other dimension that men values with experience and as the superficial lose its shine in life. 

And attraction is the main trigger for sexual desire. This attraction is possible beyond youth and conventional attractiveness. And this is especially easy when a man is mature, open-minded and is genuinely love driven towards women.

1 hour ago, Harlen Kelly said:

There are more attraction triggers but appearance is undoubtedly the main one for most men.

If you sit and meditate for 10,000 hours, the sensation of hunger does not disappear just because you became more conscious, analogously, just because you become very conscious and developed psychologically does not mean that a perfectly voluminous pair of tits of a 20-year-old will not elicit attraction on you. Why? Because attraction for men happens automatically, instantaneously, and visually. Would a very conscious person get with an immature and hot 20 year old? That's another story but the hot 20 year old will for sure and 100% certainty -- ELICIT/TRIGGER -- attraction on most men.

From your gaze, a young big pair of tits might be irresistible not to sexualize.

It depends. I'm certain that there can be as many reaction from highly conscious men as they exist. There has been zen masters who were highly sexually frustrated and used to grope women. Adyashanti said in one his talks that consciousness doesn't grant the development of all lines which include the sexual development one. But I'm pretty certain that if a 20 year old woman with big tits would show them to him, Eckhart Tolle, Rupert Spira, or whatever, none of them would consider sleeping with her. They are too satisfied with their 50+ year old wives who have got a depth that no 20 year old can give them. ?

[Harlen Kelly]

20 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

From your gaze, a young big pair of tits might be irresistible not to sexualize.

 

Are you implying that a very conscious heterosexual man would look at a big pair of tits and not find it attractive? 

20 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

From your gaze, a young big pair of tits might be irresistible not to sexualize.

It depends. I'm certain that there can be as many reaction from highly conscious men as they exist. There has been zen masters who were highly sexually frustrated and used to grope women. Adyashanti said in one his talks that consciousness doesn't grant the development of all lines which include the sexual development one. But I'm pretty certain that if a 20 year old woman with big tits would show them to him, Eckhart Tolle, Rupert Spira, or whatever, none of them would consider sleeping with her. They are too satisfied with their 50+ year old wives who have got a depth that no 20 year old can give them. ?

They would not sleep with them, but they will undoubtedly find them attractive which is the point I am making. I am not talking about relationships or a consideration for one, I am talking about the main attraction triggers for men which is primarily looks including the conscious, heterosexual men. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Etherial Cat]

49 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

They would not sleep with them, but they will undoubtedly find them attractive which is the point I am making.

We told you several times that men are attracted to beauty and youth- but it is not their primary motive. 

I guess they would find the tits at least aesthetically pleasing. But it depends largely on context.

49 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

I am not talking about relationships or a consideration for one, I am talking about the main attraction triggers for men which is primarily looks including the conscious, heterosexual men. 

If looks (youth and beauty) is the main attraction trigger for men as you say, then why are these men not with 20 year old girls with big tits?

Edited May 30, 2021 by Etherial Cat

[Emerald]

39 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

They would not sleep with them, but they will undoubtedly find them attractive which is the point I am making. I am not talking about relationships or a consideration for one, I am talking about the main attraction triggers for men which is primarily looks including the conscious, heterosexual men. 

Neither of us are arguing against that. Attractive women are attractive... of course.

And this will be noticed by both men and women and it will trigger that instinct in men (as well as women who are attracted to women.) 

Everybody knows how this element of male sexuality works. You’d have to live under a rock to not understand that.

But again, when we’re talking about what women’s perspective and biases are (which most men aren’t aware of because it’s not as apparent), you are arguing against it by talking about men’s biases and perspective when that’s not really relevant.

And while we fully grasp and even explicitly state in all of our responses that we’re fully aware that men are attracted to youth and beauty, you keep arguing against what we’re saying about women’s desires and how women’s tastes in men get more refined as they age.

What must be understood is that man who is hyper-focused on the looks-based attraction element of women is a man who is immature and is not a high quality partner.

Also, you did argue earlier that a highly conscious man would be in a relationship with an emotionally immature woman because of the attractiveness factor alone. So, you’re changing your argument now.

But you’re now (because you’ve moved the goalposts) arguing for something that Ethereal Cat and I don’t disagree with. And that doesn’t make sense.

[Harlen Kelly]

8 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Also, you did argue earlier that a highly conscious man would be in a relationship with an emotionally immature woman because of the attractiveness factor alone. So, you’re changing your argument now.

That's false, quote it. Let me see it.

''But you’re now (because you’ve moved the goalposts) arguing for something that Ethereal Cat and I don’t disagree with. And that doesn’t make sense.''

False, my point has always been clear and precise since the beginning of the conversation. 

''If looks (youth and beauty) is the main attraction trigger for men as you say, then why are these men not with 20 year old girls with big tits?''

This was written by etheral, as you can see she is still arguing the point that you have already conceded, implying that youth and beauty is not the main attraction trigger. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Raptorsin7]

Why not find someone who's conscious and young and beautiful. No matter how physically attractive a girl is if her character is flawed it will be a major turnoff

[Emerald]

6 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

That's false, quote it. Let me see it.

''But you’re now (because you’ve moved the goalposts) arguing for something that Ethereal Cat and I don’t disagree with. And that doesn’t make sense.''

False, my point has always been clear and precise since the beginning of the conversation. 

I went back and realized that I misunderstood what you said. But I responded to it earlier thinking you were arguing that a conscious man would get in a relationship with an emotionally immature woman.

This was the quote...

“I addressed your point about a conscious man forming a relationship with an immature but hot young woman on my response to @Etherial Cat.”

But I reiterate, why are you arguing with Ethereal Cat and I when we’re not disagreeing with you.

Obviously, we know that physical attractiveness and youthful beauty is a trigger for male attraction. That’s a “duh” thing. You’d have to live under a rock not to know that.

But when we’re talking about female sexuality and how it changes over time and how tastes in men change with experience (which very few people know about) it gets resisted against. And in ways that make no sense.

It really seems like you’re upset that we’re talking about women’s preferences in men, so you feel like you have to argue with or push back against something. And you continue arguing with something that we’re not even disagreeing with. 

[Arcangelo]

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

But I'm pretty certain that if a 20 year old woman with big tits would show them to him, Eckhart Tolle, Rupert Spira, or whatever, none of them would consider sleeping with her. They are too satisfied with their 50+ year old wives who have got a depth that no 20 year old can give them. ?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!

[Etherial Cat]

18 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

''If looks (youth and beauty) is the main attraction trigger for men as you say, then why are these men not with 20 year old girls with big tits?''

This was written by etheral, as you can see she is still arguing the point that you have already conceded, implying that youth and beauty is not the main attraction trigger. 

Your point has been that men are attracted to youth and beauty and that this is the main attraction trigger.

It is not true.

Mature masculine attraction towards women is a blend of several qualities and youth and conventional beauty are not necessarily the main trigger as you keep on repeating.

[Harlen Kelly]

19 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But when we’re talking about female sexuality and how it changes over time and how tastes in men change with experience (which very few people know about) it gets resisted against. And in ways that make no sense.

It really seems like you’re upset that we’re talking about women’s preferences in men, so you feel like you have to argue with or push back against something. And you continue arguing with something that we’re not even disagreeing with. 

You conceded to it, Etherial is still arguing against it.

Regarding selectiveness, it's actually pretty simple and you conceded to this as well: Older mature women have a smaller pool of men to choose from, therefore, they are less selective by virtue of the fact that they have less options but they are more rigorous with their selection which makes the options available for them even smaller. 

I said this on my first response to you:  ''They might apply selectiveness more rigorously with the options they do have due to experience and maturity''. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by Harlen Kelly