Seeing Enlightenment From A New Perspective

[Telepresent]

2 minutes ago, Bob84 said:

Cant help but ask, where caveman enlightened?

No idea.  How does knowing help you?
(P.S. I don't want to be rude: I just see a lot of these kind of questions and wonder whether people want to dig to the truth, or want to build an idea of enlightenment in their head.  Any answer to the caveman question is an idea.  I.e. worthless if you want to reach the truth)

[Telepresent]

1 minute ago, cetus56 said:

Just off the cuff- From mind operating only from a sense of self  --to mind operating as aspect of all that exists.

Ok, but why would mind want/need to do that?  The whole purpose of mind is to preserve the organism to which it serves.  Remember that mind is itself not an entity: it is the result of the programmed processes that the brain (part of the organism) goes through on a stimulus/reaction basis.

So why would that mind want/need to operate as an aspect of all the exists?  It doesn't benifit the mind or the greater organism

[cetus]

9 minutes ago, Telepresent said:

Ok, but why would mind want/need to do that?  The whole purpose of mind is to preserve the organism to which it serves.  Remember that mind is itself not an entity: it is the result of the programmed processes that the brain (part of the organism) goes through on a stimulus/reaction basis.

So why would that mind want/need to operate as an aspect of all the exists?  It doesn't benifit the mind or the greater organism

It's perfectly natural that all organisms thrive to exist. Why should the human be any different? But when that sense of survival is overwhelmingly killing off all the other organisms because of it's glitches, something needs to evolve. With greater awareness comes grater responsibility for more that just itself. The greater awareness of the entire universe means greater respect all of it.

[Prabhaker]

6 minutes ago, Telepresent said:

The whole purpose of mind is to preserve the organism to which it serves.

Mind will try to convince you that, “With me is safety, security; with me you are living under a shelter, well guarded. I take every care of you. With me you are efficient". It is just like the staff of a blind man. The blind man needs the staff just to grope his way because he does not have eyes. But when you have eyes you can drop it. A staff cannot be a substitute for eyes: it is just a groping in the dark. A blind man needs it, and it is helpful.

[Telepresent]

Just now, cetus56 said:

It's perfectly natural that all organisms thrive to exist. Why should the human be any different? But when that sense of survival is overwhelmingly killing off all the other organisms because of it's glitches, something needs to evolve. With greater awareness comes grater responsibility for more that just itself. The greater awareness of the entire universe means greater respect all of it.

Ok, but you're now talking about evolution as though its a wider social/ecological instinct.  You're talking as though there's some over-arching arbiter who keeps things 'in balance'.  Look: we talk about the end of human life as if it's the end of the world.  It's not.  Something will survive, life will continue to go on and survive.  Evolution has primed the mind to care about itself, and pretty much only itself (with a little expansion to your local tribe), not to give a shit about ecology, environment, and the rest of the world.  Those conscious aspects to which we ascribe (conservation, charity, support, etc.) only form a tiny part of mind, and often one that is overwhelmed when it comes to self-interest (see every wind-farm that has been challenged by locals protesting that their back yard will lose value).

And, (and please bear in mind these are questions that I'm playing with just as much as I write them, not challenges to suggest you are 'wrong'), why shouldn't the 'greater awareness of the universe' be interested to see what happens when we kill off this lot of organisms and start with a new batch?  The dinosaurs were cool, but let's kill them off and see how these mammal things do.  Maybe it's time to let these mammal things kill themselves off, and see how the amphibians manage?  Why should our very mammallian perspective be treated as 'right'?  We kill trillions of bacteria every day.  Is that considered genocide?  Why not?  Doesn't the universe care about the evolution of bacteria?  Maybe it's getting us out the way so they can thrive!

[cetus]

3 minutes ago, Makis said:

No, it is not a brain function. It is the "cosmic self", this mystery, that wants to wake up to itself.

A cosmic game of hide and seek.

[cetus]

11 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

A cosmic game of hide and seek.

This is exactly what I'm getting at.    Is it some grand cosmic mystery?    Or is it all just a glitch in in the human brain?

* I know that's not as romantic sounding as the former is.

Edited October 31, 2016 by cetus56

[Prabhaker]

4 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

Is it some grand cosmic mystery?

It is a mystery. Mystery means there is no way to solve it, whatever you do is going to fail. Rather, live it -- drop solving. Perhaps through living you will come to an understanding. But that will not be the answer, it will be more than the answer; it will be an alive experience. You will have become part of the mystery itself.

Great courage and patience is needed. It the greatest gamble you can play.

[Bob84]

38 minutes ago, Telepresent said:

No idea.  How does knowing help you?
(P.S. I don't want to be rude: I just see a lot of these kind of questions and wonder whether people want to dig to the truth, or want to build an idea of enlightenment in their head.  Any answer to the caveman question is an idea.  I.e. worthless if you want to reach the truth)

Was more to poke fun, then again its not when you consider that caveman didn't spend the whole day mentally masturbating.

[LaucherJunge]

The mind is not a disease. It is a Symbiosis of mind and consciousness there is a reason the ego exists we dont have to know it as we are in this state but it is probably simply for the purpose of expansion. Enlightenment will grant you an overview of this Symbiosis.

[Telepresent]

5 minutes ago, Bob84 said:

Was more to poke fun, then again its not when you consider that caveman didn't spend the whole day mentally masturbating.

Poking fun is always good
I can be a mean git on hear as I'm really only concerned with the GRAND QUEST (... or something like that) and so always assume all questions are coming from that point of view!

I wouldn't be surprised if the cavemen DID spend all their time mentally masturbating, though: all those old religions and myths came from somewhere

[cetus]

4 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

It is a mystery. Mystery means there is no way to solve it, whatever you do is going to fail. Rather, live it -- drop solving. Perhaps through living you will come to an understanding. But that will not be the answer, it will be more than the answer; it will be an alive experience. You will have become part of the mystery itself.

Great courage and patience is needed. It the greatest gamble you can play.

I love the way that sounds. Very moving and all. But is it really like that? I'm starting to question everything.

[cetus]

2 minutes ago, Telepresent said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the cavemen DID spend all their time mentally masturbating, though: all those old religions and myths came from somewhere

Is this what we are still doing today just packaging it differently?

[Telepresent]

5 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

Is this what we are still doing today just packaging it differently?

For the most part, I'd say yes.  All I see is people wanting to answer questions, and when they question those questions they want a slightly deeper answer they find more comfortable.  99% of traffic on this forum is people wanting comfort, not truth.  That's where the myths come from.  An answer that is good enough, comfortable enough.  And that's what most people are asking for.

You question @Prabhaker's answer.  Good.  Never take anything he/she says, or that I say, or that Leo says, or that anyone else says, as true.  Because anything that we ever say to you can only be interpreted in your mind as a concept, an idea.  For all I know @Prabhaker is enlightened.  For all I know @Prabhaker is full of shit.  I don't know.  But I can take on those words and investigate them per my experience.

If I can go back to your original question, there is a lot of need to KNOW in there.  I would suggest (from one amateur to another) that you investigate that need to know.  What is enlightenment to YOU?  What does it mean?  What are you imagining, expecting, remembering maybe?  We can't answer for you.  Hell, I don't even know that you exist.  You don't know that I exist.  So why trust me?

[Prabhaker]

10 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

But is it really like that?

If you want to be enlightened, you have to die a psychological death. You have to be reborn as a new spiritual being, and you don't know anything about spirituality. All that you know about yourself is your mind, centered around the ego. 

 It is not so cheap, to reach to the ultimate realization of truth. You will have to create the path by walking yourself; the path is not ready-made. Enlightenment also needs you to be ready to be killed.

[cetus]

4 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

If you want to be enlightened, you have to die a psychological death. You have to be reborn as a new spiritual being, and you don't know anything about spirituality

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, but I'm looking at "enlightenment" from a none spiritual aspect. Maybe your "being reborn spiritually" is my idea of the human brain function evolving.

[Telepresent]

10 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

I You have to be reborn as a new spiritual being, and you don't know anything about spirituality.

I sometimes wonder whether this whole 'spirituality' game is the biggest practical joke ever pulled

[123456789]

@Telepresent

1 hour ago, cetus56 said:

Is enlightenment just another process of evolution through which this continuously evolving brain is growing?

 

*COUGH*..concept.. *COUGH*

[Telepresent]

1 minute ago, cetus56 said:

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, but I'm looking at "enlightenment" from a none spiritual aspect. Maybe your "being reborn spiritually" is my idea of the human brain function evolving.

I am as well.  Absolutely.  I'm just questioning the perspective we take on evolution.  Of course, personal evolution is a whole other thing, which I guess is where you're coming from?  If so, apologies for my earlier tangent.  So, tell me (and again, please take this as one amateur to another, I don't want to come over as arrogant): what do you think enlightenment means?

[Prabhaker]

2 minutes ago, Telepresent said:

I sometimes wonder whether this whole 'spirituality' game is the biggest practical joke ever pulled

The great cosmic joke is that you are what you are seeking.