How does a blue shadow look like?

[SamC]

Any ideas or thoughts ?

@Leo Gura

Edited May 4, 2021 by SamC

[Megan Alecia]

Blindly following tradition. 

Tyrannical parenting. 

[SamC]

1 minute ago, Megan Alecia said:

Blindly following tradition. 

Tyrannical parenting. 

Isn't that normal stage blue?@Megan Alecia

[eliasvelez]

Isnt the shadow more the things that you havent integrated?

I think examples for a blue shadow are lazyness, poor work ethic, weak discipline.  -> All the positive sides of blue that you havent yet integrated

Edited May 4, 2021 by eliasvelez

[Megan Alecia]

@SamC Blindly following "upholding tradition".

Tyrannical parenting. "respecting elders"

Keep in mind that Blue instilled order in ancient civilizations and saved them from the heartless ruthless Red. 

[SamC]

13 minutes ago, Megan Alecia said:

@SamC Blindly following "upholding tradition".

Tyrannical parenting. "respecting elders"

Keep in mind that Blue instilled order in ancient civilizations and saved them from the heartless ruthless Red. 

isn´t that still blue but less toxic blue?@Megan Alecia 

[SamC]

25 minutes ago, eliasvelez said:

Isnt the shadow more the things that you havent integrated?

I think examples for a blue shadow are lazyness, poor work ethic, weak discipline.  -> All the positive sides of blue that you havent yet integrated

@eliasvelez Interesting, thank you.

Which group of people ( on the spiral or egodevelopment level) do you think have the biggest stage blue shadow ? ( or what person)

Also what is the difference of being blue and having a blue shadow? Is being blue ( on some level ) a sign that you have a shadow of something else? If that's the case what's that shadow? 

Many questions here lmao. If you have any thoughts on some or all of them I would love to hear them.

Edited May 4, 2021 by SamC

[eliasvelez]

@SamC 

56 minutes ago, SamC said:

Which group of people ( on the spiral or egodevelopment level) do you think have the biggest stage blue shadow ? ( or what person)

 

I think this is indipendent of wicht stage you are, after blue of course. But at the moment for me it seems like a lot of stage green people are missing positive aspects of blue that are relateive important (including me in some areas) 

 

56 minutes ago, SamC said:

Is being blue ( on some level ) a sign that you have a shadow of something else? If that's the case what's that shadow? 

I dont think so, blue is like any other a nessecary step of consiousness, of course only if you want to go beyond blue. You can be in blue and have the previous stages integrated healthy, thats not a contratiction. It is not a sign for a shadow of the previous stages. (This conclusion is the consequence of my interpretation of shadow in spyral dynamics)

56 minutes ago, SamC said:

Also what is the difference of being blue and having a blue shadow?

You are Blue when you are mostly stuck and limited in blue. You are blue when you are incapable of going further than your limitations that are in blue (thats the same on any other stage). A blue shadow has someone whose gravity point is beyond blue and also his identification but he hasnt integrated yet everything in blue and misses some important aspects of blue like for example discipline ( think meaby of a lazy hippie that smokes everyday pot and chills everyday. I know, its of course a stereotype) 

 

That are of course my interpretations, if someone has a different view, please let us know

Edited May 4, 2021 by eliasvelez

[Preety_India]

Hatred of anything traditional, hatred of any tradition. Looking down on them. Having a condescending attitude toward ancient culture, excessive need to act like you're with the new generation, trying too hard to fit in, to the point of absurd, disrespectful to parents on purpose (as a sign of rebellion )

Hating anything that is outdated without reason, just because it is old or ancient, the need to constantly dissociate from anything ancestral. 

Lack of respect for moral values and foundations. 

Lack of respect for religious sites and institutions and ancestral burial grounds. 

Lack of respect for democracy and governing structure. 

Defacing such structures. Defacing and destroying old monuments. 

 

Acting in a sociopathic manner and purposely breaking the rules of a place with regard to discipline or behavior in order to come off as a rebel (fake rebel )

Mocking orderliness or mocking discipline 

Constantly espousing giving up moral values and being extremely critical of moral beliefs and codes. 

Having a strong bias against sexual traditions and beliefs and deliberately acting hyper sexual and stressing on extreme sexual freedom and support of weird sexual behaviors with no restriction or inhibition of sexual conduct, no concept of right or wrong when it comes to sexual conduct, no concept of consent and no willingness to understand sexual rules and inhibitions placed by society, simply going against the grain to act hip and chic. To come across as new agey sexually free bullshit. 

Using sexual freedom as a justification of sexual misconduct so there would be no moral culpability.  

Hate of moral standards and constantly opposing and negating moral standards, even making it look outdated, unnecessary or a laughing stock. 

Trying to make immoral behavior look cool and trendy and moral behavior as something uncool and holding it with contempt. 

No work ethic. 

Excessively dogmatic in their opposition of anything that represents Blue. 

Using cultural freedom to justify hedonistic acts. 

Asking for all rules to be relaxed.  A penalty free state.  

Mocking the police and law enforcement as a joke and no respect for their work. 

Acting teenagey and showing lack of maturity and making immaturity sound cool or new trendish. 

Acting sociopathic. Deliberate disrespect. 

Making fun of old people, elders. 

Laughing while talking about someone's religion or religious practice or symbols and structures and later apologizing to avoid being cancelled by public. 

Shameless behavior with no class or dignity. 

Having disdain for dignity. Mocking dignity 

Wearing religious symbols as fashion without understanding their deeper meaning and using these symbols in appropriate places and on inappropriate occasions. 

Grave digging, grave robbing. Defacing ancient ancestral  graves. 

Mocking ancestral places and graves. 

Disdain for ancient history. 

Acting disgusted around tribal people, mocking them, also acting like they are aliens, not respecting them or their culture. 

Excessive need to show off technology and wealth and having a condescending attitude towards those who cannot operate it or aren't able to get on with new technology. 

Disrespect of grandparents. Making it look like they are a chore to deal with. 

Trying to act ultra modern and zero appreciation for older forms of clothing or styles. 

Gangsta signs and gangsta language as something beautiful or cool. 

Show off of excessive wealth. Needless spending. Vulgar show off. No respect for equality or poor people. Zero humility. 

 

Making humility look ridiculous and acting cheap 

 

 

[Preety_India]

Not showing any understanding of religion and using generalizations excessively and making everything about religion look bad and horrible, casting a wide net and boxing religion as totally abhorrent in dogmatic ways with zero appreciation for the good parts of religion. 

 

[eliasvelez]

12 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Hatred of anything traditional, hatred of any tradition. Looking down on them. Having a condescending attitude toward ancient culture, excessive need to act like you're with the new generation, trying too hard to fit in, to the point of absurd, disrespectful to parents on purpose (as a sign of rebellion )

Hating anything that is outdated without reason, just because it is old or ancient, the need to constantly dissociate from anything ancestral. 

Lack of respect for moral values and foundations. 

Lack of respect for religious sites and institutions and ancestral burial grounds. 

Lack of respect for democracy and governing structure. 

Defacing such structures. Defacing and destroying old monuments. 

 

Acting in a sociopathic manner and purposely breaking the rules of a place with regard to discipline or behavior in order to come off as a rebel (fake rebel )

Mocking orderliness or mocking discipline 

Constantly espousing giving up moral values and being extremely critical of moral beliefs and codes. 

Having a strong bias against sexual traditions and beliefs and deliberately acting hyper sexual and stressing on extreme sexual freedom and support of weird sexual behaviors with no restriction or inhibition of sexual conduct, no concept of right or wrong when it comes to sexual conduct, no concept of consent and no willingness to understand sexual rules and inhibitions placed by society, simply going against the grain to act hip and chic. To come across as new agey sexually free bullshit. 

Using sexual freedom as a justification of sexual misconduct so there would be no moral culpability.  

Hate of moral standards and constantly opposing and negating moral standards, even making it look outdated, unnecessary or a laughing stock. 

Trying to make immoral behavior look cool and trendy and moral behavior as something uncool and holding it with contempt. 

No work ethic. 

Excessively dogmatic in their opposition of anything that represents Blue. 

Using cultural freedom to justify hedonistic acts. 

Asking for all rules to be relaxed.  A penalty free state.  

Mocking the police and law enforcement as a joke and no respect for their work. 

Acting teenagey and showing lack of maturity and making immaturity sound cool or new trendish. 

Acting sociopathic. Deliberate disrespect. 

Making fun of old people, elders. 

Laughing while talking about someone's religion or religious practice or symbols and structures and later apologizing to avoid being cancelled by public. 

Shameless behavior with no class or dignity. 

Having disdain for dignity. Mocking dignity 

Wearing religious symbols as fashion without understanding their deeper meaning and using these symbols in appropriate places and on inappropriate occasions. 

Grave digging, grave robbing. Defacing ancient ancestral  graves. 

Mocking ancestral places and graves. 

Disdain for ancient history. 

Acting disgusted around tribal people, mocking them, also acting like they are aliens, not respecting them or their culture. 

Excessive need to show off technology and wealth and having a condescending attitude towards those who cannot operate it or aren't able to get on with new technology. 

Disrespect of grandparents. Making it look like they are a chore to deal with. 

Trying to act ultra modern and zero appreciation for older forms of clothing or styles. 

Gangsta signs and gangsta language as something beautiful or cool. 

Show off of excessive wealth. Needless spending. Vulgar show off. No respect for equality or poor people. Zero humility. 

 

Making humility look ridiculous and acting cheap 

 

 

great, a lot of them make sense to me. But what is in some of your examples the difference between stage red behaviour and a blue shadow? 

For examlpe, 

12 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Making humility look ridiculous and acting cheap 

 

or this example

12 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Show off of excessive wealth. Needless spending. Vulgar show off. No respect for equality or poor people. Zero humility. 

 

, seem to me, like this could go as red, rather than as a blue shadow

Edited May 4, 2021 by eliasvelez

[Preety_India]

10 minutes ago, eliasvelez said:

great, a lot of them make sense to me. But what is in some of your examples the difference between stage red behaviour and a blue shadow? 

For examlpe, 

or this example

, seem to me, like this could go as red, rather than as a blue shadow

I agree that it can overlap with red. But if these individuals do not show any other stage red traits and generally have disdain for anything Red then I would infer it as more of a blue shadow rather than a red trait. 

 

[eliasvelez]

8 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

generally have disdain for anything Red then I would infer it as more of a blue shadow rather than a red trait. 

 

It could also be that these attitudes could be a red shadow, a red part of themselfes that they disdain. That could mean that they havent fully integrated red but they are identifying with blue and their gravity point is blue but they also have some red parts in themselfs that are unhealthy and that they hate.

 

[SamC]

19 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

I do have a BLUE shadow actually, so I can answer that for you from the perspective of an ORANGE/GREEN individual. I'm rather uptight, and I'm not too good at letting loose. Also I get offended easily at sexuality, nudity, and course language. I can't shake the idea from my head that sexuality is somehow filthy, wrong, and needs to be repressed. I also despise modern functionalist architecture and unironically think that all cities should be made in neoclassical architecture.  

I think you have a green/orange shadow as opposed to a blue shadow, but thanks for sharing!

[SamC]

18 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Hatred of anything traditional, hatred of any tradition. Looking down on them. Having a condescending attitude toward ancient culture, excessive need to act like you're with the new generation, trying too hard to fit in, to the point of absurd, disrespectful to parents on purpose (as a sign of rebellion )

Hating anything that is outdated without reason, just because it is old or ancient, the need to constantly dissociate from anything ancestral. 

Lack of respect for moral values and foundations. 

Lack of respect for religious sites and institutions and ancestral burial grounds. 

Lack of respect for democracy and governing structure. 

Defacing such structures. Defacing and destroying old monuments. 

 

Acting in a sociopathic manner and purposely breaking the rules of a place with regard to discipline or behavior in order to come off as a rebel (fake rebel )

Mocking orderliness or mocking discipline 

Constantly espousing giving up moral values and being extremely critical of moral beliefs and codes. 

Having a strong bias against sexual traditions and beliefs and deliberately acting hyper sexual and stressing on extreme sexual freedom and support of weird sexual behaviors with no restriction or inhibition of sexual conduct, no concept of right or wrong when it comes to sexual conduct, no concept of consent and no willingness to understand sexual rules and inhibitions placed by society, simply going against the grain to act hip and chic. To come across as new agey sexually free bullshit. 

Using sexual freedom as a justification of sexual misconduct so there would be no moral culpability.  

Hate of moral standards and constantly opposing and negating moral standards, even making it look outdated, unnecessary or a laughing stock. 

Trying to make immoral behavior look cool and trendy and moral behavior as something uncool and holding it with contempt. 

No work ethic. 

Excessively dogmatic in their opposition of anything that represents Blue. 

Using cultural freedom to justify hedonistic acts. 

Asking for all rules to be relaxed.  A penalty free state.  

Mocking the police and law enforcement as a joke and no respect for their work. 

Acting teenagey and showing lack of maturity and making immaturity sound cool or new trendish. 

Acting sociopathic. Deliberate disrespect. 

Making fun of old people, elders. 

Laughing while talking about someone's religion or religious practice or symbols and structures and later apologizing to avoid being cancelled by public. 

Shameless behavior with no class or dignity. 

Having disdain for dignity. Mocking dignity 

Wearing religious symbols as fashion without understanding their deeper meaning and using these symbols in appropriate places and on inappropriate occasions. 

Grave digging, grave robbing. Defacing ancient ancestral  graves. 

Mocking ancestral places and graves. 

Disdain for ancient history. 

Acting disgusted around tribal people, mocking them, also acting like they are aliens, not respecting them or their culture. 

Excessive need to show off technology and wealth and having a condescending attitude towards those who cannot operate it or aren't able to get on with new technology. 

Disrespect of grandparents. Making it look like they are a chore to deal with. 

Trying to act ultra modern and zero appreciation for older forms of clothing or styles. 

Gangsta signs and gangsta language as something beautiful or cool. 

Show off of excessive wealth. Needless spending. Vulgar show off. No respect for equality or poor people. Zero humility. 

 

Making humility look ridiculous and acting cheap 

 

 

@Preety_India Have you experienced people with a blue shadow in your life before?

[SamC]

On 2021-05-04 at 10:16 PM, eliasvelez said:

@SamC 

I think this is indipendent of wicht stage you are, after blue of course. But at the moment for me it seems like a lot of stage green people are missing positive aspects of blue that are relateive important (including me in some areas) 

Yeah, I believe so too. I find it hard to pinpoint though because I don´t get triggered that much by the blue shadow stuff so it is hard to locate...

or who knows maybe I get very triggered but I am just not aware of it yet. Anyhow, interesting to say the least@eliasvelez

 

* edit -

Fuck I think I could have a blue shadow but I don't know how or if yet. Lmao

Is having contempt of people who are overly concientious ( those who are overly serious with taking notes and shit) a sign of a blue shadow?

I think so, huh? Hmm, maybe

 

Quote

 

I dont think so, blue is like any other a nessecary step of consiousness, of course only if you want to go beyond blue. You can be in blue and have the previous stages integrated healthy, thats not a contratiction. It is not a sign for a shadow of the previous stages. (This conclusion is the consequence of my interpretation of shadow in spyral dynamics)

Hmm, but what about having a shadow to the step after? If you´re blue, must you not per definition have a shadow in green/ orange because you haven´t expanded your sense of identity to the point where you can move up to the next color? ( or is that another phenomenon) 

Quote

You are Blue when you are mostly stuck and limited in blue. You are blue when you are incapable of going further than your limitations that are in blue (thats the same on any other stage). A blue shadow has someone whose gravity point is beyond blue and also his identification but he hasnt integrated yet everything in blue and misses some important aspects of blue like for example discipline ( think meaby of a lazy hippie that smokes everyday pot and chills everyday. I know, its of course a stereotype) 

So what´s up with Jordan Petersen for example who resents green and might be labeled as having a green shadow? is he simply not green yet or does he have a green shadow?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting thoughts! Thanks for sharing

 

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by SamC

[Forestluv]

Example: having an adverse orientation toward religions. Higher-level embodiment can see both value and limitations within religion. 

A shadow would have an adverse reaction to any blue-level feature. A transcendent view can see both value and limitations. The breadth, depth and clarity of understanding is related to one's level of cognitive development and embodiment. 

[SamC]

3 hours ago, Forestluv said:

Example: having an adverse orientation toward religions. Higher-level embodiment can see both value and limitations within religion. 

A shadow would have an adverse reaction to any blue-level feature. A transcendent view can see both value and limitations. The breadth, depth and clarity of understanding is related to one's level of cognitive development and embodiment. 

@ForestluvIs perfectionism a sign of a blue shadow?

Edited May 5, 2021 by SamC

[ilja]

like this.

 

[blackchair]

lol, i live in a Blue household (i love them dearly) i mention one day i Will have husband and children, my mother told me its sickness, i chuckled. maybe shadow of blue can be hypocrisy when it comes to religion. my parents fight all the time but bible is number 1 item in house.